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The dream is dead ... :(

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CelticRambler
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The dream is dead ... :(

#1

Post by CelticRambler »

Long live the dream! :mrgreen:

In a somewhat putinesque fashion, I'm now into the seventh day of my two-day dry-lining project. What feckin' eejit thought it'd be a good idea to retain - and have to work around - so many original wood and stone features in a building that exists in no less than four dimensions ... ? :?

Anyway, while reflecting on the slow progress of this hobby-scale renovation and adjusting the forward planning schedule accordingly, I finally and grudgingly accepted that completing the Dream House Project in my lifetime is an impossibility. Especially as I haven't even started on it yet, and we're here 19 years and 3 weeks already.

So it's time for a Big Rethink. Anyone got any ideas what to do with 460m² of old stone barns, all in a line and currently divided into eight sections, and most of which has the same surface area as a first-floor/mezzanine? I'm still hoping to get the whole lot re-roofed in a revenue-generating solar tile, because most of it needs to be re-roofed anyhow; and I'm determined to have my dance hall too. But the rest ... :?:
kadman
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#2

Post by kadman »

Does this mean you will no longer be singing the benefits of upping sticks and leaving the rat race in ireland to buy a cheap castle in France, of which there are many....and retire like a frenchie aristocrat before the revolution
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#3

Post by kadman »

You should have spent more time working that cavorting with those dusky french maidens.
Dance hall be damned , ideal for a mega workshop.
CelticRambler
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#4

Post by CelticRambler »

kadman wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:22 pm Does this mean you will no longer be singing the benefits of upping sticks and leaving the rat race in ireland to buy a cheap castle in France, of which there are many....and retire like a frenchie aristocrat before the revolution
Hell no! It's the not fully retiring that's contributed to the problem. Too much interference with a good run of motivation (and weather). :mrgreen:
kadman wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:32 pm You should have spent more time working that cavorting with those dusky french maidens.
Dance hall be damned , ideal for a mega workshop.
The weekend's reflection has already pencilled in two spaces to use for workshopping, and maybe (just maybe) I might dedicate another one to all things metallic. You'd be happy with that arrangement - it'd be as far away from the chisels and planes as one could get without stepping into the neighbour's field. :lol:

But does any man really need three workshops? 8-)
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#5

Post by 678904673 »

Get a nice Polish man in to do it. They then to excel at these kinds of things
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Apelles
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#6

Post by Apelles »

CelticRambler wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:44 am Long live the dream! :mrgreen:

In a somewhat putinesque fashion, I'm now into the seventh day of my two-day dry-lining project. What feckin' eejit thought it'd be a good idea to retain - and have to work around - so many original wood and stone features in a building that exists in no less than four dimensions ... ? :?

Anyway, while reflecting on the slow progress of this hobby-scale renovation and adjusting the forward planning schedule accordingly, I finally and grudgingly accepted that completing the Dream House Project in my lifetime is an impossibility. Especially as I haven't even started on it yet, and we're here 19 years and 3 weeks already.

So it's time for a Big Rethink. Anyone got any ideas what to do with 460m² of old stone barns, all in a line and currently divided into eight sections, and most of which has the same surface area as a first-floor/mezzanine? I'm still hoping to get the whole lot re-roofed in a revenue-generating solar tile, because most of it needs to be re-roofed anyhow; and I'm determined to have my dance hall too. But the rest ... :?:
Be interested in seeing some pics of your old barns CR. What would they have originally been used for . . were they general farm buildings for storing grain etc. or were they animal stables?
CelticRambler
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#7

Post by CelticRambler »

D'you know, Apelles, I don't think I've ever taken even a single photo of them! Not in any detail, at least - just the one "look what we bought" general view to send to the relatives back in the beginning.

The barns I'm referring to were everything. The original dwelling house dates back to some time before 1750, at which point it was probably the 7x10m structure that's now our kitchen-dining-utility-bath-shower-room area, and what currently houses our two principal bedrooms would have been the original barn, 5x10m, with grain store overhead (7m-high ceiling, on top of the 3m high bedroom).

As the years passed and this particular farm grew in importance, another barn was added as an extension immediately to the east gable, then another, then another, then another, and at some point in all of that, someone knocked through from the original dwelling into the original barn to create living quarters for the domestic staff (we were told that, in living memory, thirteen people called that 50m² space "home" :shock: )

By the time the last farmer retired and sold the property to our neighbour (in the late 80s/early 90s), the first barn appears to have been used exclusively for storing hay, straw and grain, with one part bricked off to create a "machine room" of sorts. The second barn was the cattle barn, and still has the wooden stalls through which they would have poked their heads to eat hay from the concrete mangers which are still there today; there's a full-height, tractor-width passage through this one (front to back) and a mezzanine left and right above the two animal enclosures.

The third barn was probably for sheep and still contains a pen for isolating some individuals - the ram, maybe? It's possible that this might also (or instead) have been where they kept horses. It has a very high ceiling, with numerous hatches to allow hay/grain to be poured down from the room above into wall-hung wooden and wood-and-metal mangers which I've salvaged and hope to restore in due course.

The fourth barn has traditional 60cm thick stone walls, but was split into two spaces at some point with modern concrete blocks, and has a poured concrete floor. They were being used as garages when we took ownership. At ground level, it's a distinct construction (you can still see the old east-facing doorway in the third barn) but the roof must have been re-made at that time as the space above Barns 3 and 4 is one enormous room, about 100m² :shock: When the morning sun shines through the holes in the roof and accentuates the roof timbers, it's an amazing sight. 8-)

That's what we knew we were buying; then we discovered a whole other series of buildings on the west end (hidden by a giant, impenetrable mass of brambles) that were lumped together under the one word "sheds". These were the chicken sheds, pig-sties, rabbit hutches and general "basse cour" buildings. The pig sties have long since been used as my winter workshop, the chicken shed (+indeterminate adjacent spaces) is the project of the moment.
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#8

Post by Setanta »

Have they concrete floors and relatively watertight?


A nice steel/engineering workshop would be a dream,with a lathe,chopsaws,welders and plasma cutters with plenty of room to work/tinker around along with a gantry for larger projects......you could take in second hand agri/plant machinery and repair/upgrade and sell em on



Kinda depends,what ya want out of em really
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
CelticRambler
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#9

Post by CelticRambler »

Watertight ... nope, not any more. :cry: That's why the whole lot needs to be re-roofed (but also where the hopefully self-financing solar roof comes in).

Only the last bit has a proper flat and level concrete floor, but floors would be the "easy" bit of any upgrade, especially as all the spaces open directly onto the public road in front, so a concrete mix could be delivered right into any of them. The three older barns have stone floors, in varying condition but generally quite solid ... except the one for tractor access!

I'm not sure there'd be much of a market for agri-machinery upgrade work here, though. Just about everyone who has anything like that does their own upgrades (unless they're EU funded by buy something shiny and new). To a certain extent, that'd probably be the extent of what I'd want to do myself. As it is, I have a sort of "engineering corner" that's developed since I bought the mini-digger and welder, but it's a sort-of corner, sort-of under cover, and sort-of suitable as long as I don't need the tools/winches/bolts somewhere else.
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#10

Post by kadman »

CelticRambler wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:49 pm Hell no! It's the not fully retiring that's contributed to the problem. Too much interference with a good run of motivation (and weather). :mrgreen:



The weekend's reflection has already pencilled in two spaces to use for workshopping, and maybe (just maybe) I might dedicate another one to all things metallic. You'd be happy with that arrangement - it'd be as far away from the chisels and planes as one could get without stepping into the neighbour's field. :lol:

But does any man really need three workshops? 8-)
Thankfully I'm further away from your chisels than you. Not that I would cut myself with the edges, more like I might suffer blunt force trauma from them :lol: :lol:
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#11

Post by kadman »

Reading your post there about not realising what buildings you had...............jaysus you are starting to sound like Mr Troy our politician who forgot what buildings he owned, and Bertie who forgot that he had any bank accounts.

You have the makings of a politician methinks :D
CelticRambler
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#12

Post by CelticRambler »

kadman wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:43 pm Reading your post there about not realising what buildings you had...............jaysus you are starting to sound like Mr Troy our politician who forgot what buildings he owned, and Bertie who forgot that he had any bank accounts.

You have the makings of a politician methinks :D
That'd be quite the career change, but I'll give it some thought. Does it pay well? :mrgreen:
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#13

Post by kadman »

CelticRambler wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:24 pm That'd be quite the career change, but I'll give it some thought. Does it pay well? :mrgreen:
Of course it pays well, ask Eamon Ryan. What other job could you go to, fall asleep while you are there, and still get paid, and keep your job. Tis a joke of a job. But dont forget to declare your run down castle assets in France, and sure you could qualify for a brown bag contribution from some builder that wants you to re zone his landbank, and get your building work done for free, and self certified that it complies.

Whats not to like :D
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#14

Post by Del.Monte »

CR - you and your derelict pig sties - what you need is a real challenge! :mrgreen:

I visited this house in East Cork in the mid-1970s and thought it beyond restoration but fab all the same. Since then I've been involved in two major rebuilds but nothing on this scale - still would be tempted if I had the money.

https://theirishaesthete.com/2023/04/24/dromdiah/

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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#15

Post by CelticRambler »

Del.Monte wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:53 am CR - you and your derelict pig sties - what you need is a real challenge! :mrgreen:

I visited this house in East Cork in the mid-1970s and thought it beyond restoration but fab all the same. Since then I've been involved in two major rebuilds but nothing on this scale - still would be tempted if I had the money.
I'm always up for a challenge ... but when it comes to buildings, there's a point of dereliction beyond which I don't think one can talk of "restoration" any more; rather one is into the realm of "inspired by the former design ..."

A dilapidated building can still include many traces of the previous occupants' day-to-day existence, and I think that lends a charm (and/or inspiration) that can't be replicated by simply re-building elements with modern materials. In my shed, we found a set of old cast iron frying pans hanging from a beam in the "food preparation area" for the pigs, chickens and rabbits. I'm going to clean those up a bit, fit some LEDs to the inside of the pan, and put them back up in the exact same position to serve as a decorative light in my future sitting room.

Similarly, I'll be integrating some of the chestnut ceiling beams and boards taken out of the chicken shed (previous ceiling height 1.8m :D ) into the "new" woodwork in the future kitchen that'll occupy that same space. That kind of "hard-wired" continuity is important to me. Must remember to make written notes of these things, though, otherwise the (hi)story will be lost when my brain ceases to function.
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#16

Post by CelticRambler »

Apelles wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 7:15 pm Be interested in seeing some pics of your old barns CR. What would they have originally been used for . . were they general farm buildings for storing grain etc. or were they animal stables?
Today (and yesterday) has been a bit of a tidy-up and "inventory" day so I took advantage of the tour do take some pics for you, A.

So this is the infamous dancehall-to-be, as seen from one of the mezzanine levels. The other one was full of hay and straw until last year; in fact, most of the ground level was too, because the children cleared it from the one I'm standing on so that they could leap off the far side into it. :shock:

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To the left of the image, you can (maybe) just about make out where the original roof was cut and a new gable built. That created the southern wall of an open barn built perpendicular to the main line of the building.

In all the time we've been here, this yoke has been sitting up on the mezzanine, and while we knew it was "something agricultural" there's always been something more pressing to get on with rather than investigate further. The children never succeeded in unlocking whatever safety mechanism stops it from turning, so it was left undisturbed.

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Yesterday, however, needing to shift it a bit to get a tarpaulin onto the floor around it, I discovered A Significant Clue :D

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... as a result of which, not only have I found out that there's a working version in an agricultural museum not far from here (never been to it) but I've also tracked down an instruction manual complete with itemised list of every single spare part and their 1930s price. I sense a restoration project just below the horizon ... :mrgreen:

Next barn along is this one, as seen from just inside the main entrance

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Original cattle stalls still in place, and I'll do my damnedest to keep them. Whatever feeding troughs were there at the time of construction were replaced with functional but ugly concrete that I started to break up until distracted by other projects.

The space to the right has a modern(ish) concrete floor and is more or less weatherproof; the space on the left still has the original stone floor, but half the roof has fallen in. Stabilising the remainder is one of this year's priorities ... as it has been for the last four years. :cry:
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Apelles
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#17

Post by Apelles »

They're very large, impressive spaces you've taken on there CR. Quite the time and money pit I'd imagine. Have you a rough date of when the barns were constructed?
Its hard to tell from the photo but it must be at least 30ft from the floor to the apex of the roof. It sounds like your children are making fantastic experiences for themselves living there, between making straw jumps and investigating the contents of the old buildings.
Are those roof timbers and trusses in good condition or do they all need attention too?


Best of luck to you with the whole project.
CelticRambler
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Re: The dream is dead ... :(

#18

Post by CelticRambler »

It's hard to be sure about the construction date, as each barn was added separately and progressively. A few clues in the masonry, woodwork and hardware suggest that the ones you see there were probably put up in the early 1800s; some day I'll pay a visit to the public archives and see if I can get more precise info.

The whole building stands about 5m high at the eaves, rising to 10m at the apex, with an internal depth of 10m (plus walls 60cm thick).Those were pretty standard dimensions for agricultural buildings around here from that period, though you'd often get the "fun size" model of only 8m deep/high. That first barn is 16m wide, the second is 14m. They're not the money pit as you might imagine - but that's mainly because I'm not really doing anything with them. Back in the day, I had notions of doing a total restoration, but (as eluded to above) that'll be a project for future generations. To a certain extent, they pay for themselves, as they provide me with almost unlimited space to store stuff that might come in useful some day ... and it does! :mrgreen:

The biggest imminent expense is/will be replacing the south-facing half of roof. This gets the full force of our increasingly extreme and unstable weather, and there are now several significant holes opening up - and we unroofed one whole section (the part over the nettle-patch in barn 2) in an attempt to salvage as many tiles as possible for patching up other areas. If I can get my act together, the next Big Plan is to re-roof the whole lot - about 400m² - with solar tiles, the idea being that the revenue generated in the first ten years would pay for the restoration/installation, and thereafter provide me with pocket money in my dotage.
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