Conspiracy Thread

[isha]

In the absence of a forum for conspiracy theories, perhaps a thread will do?

I watched this by chance, yesterday. To be honest, the 911 thing is something to which I have not applied my mind. Some things catch my attention, some things don't. But I know there's a fairly big network of people who say 911 was an inside job, or how did Building 7(?) fall? I have seen occasional good debunking videos in the past (which I have forgotten!) of various conspiracies about the falling of buildings and the entry of planes.



Anyways all that to say I'm looking for a debunking or confirmation of this video of the free fall of the towers (10 to 12 seconds) with apparently no resistance from the rest of the enormous structure .....I'm not hugely invested, just interested in clear explanations of things that are probably simple to understand.

[Setanta]

Is the lack of any actual explosions kind of a bit of a glaring plothole? (Pretty sure I learned/verified in LC physics,that gravity is 9.87 metres a second)

All those buildings in Turkey after that earthquake collasped quiet similarly in hours and days after it...many many caught on camera


Imo the foundation were shook by planes flying into it with a lever effect and fractured the central structure/lift shafts (most of steel/support ran up one side)....the resulting collapse caused the damage to the foundation/structure of the famous tower 7,giving it a turkey earthquake style collaspe later



The US government is happy to let these type conspiracies prosper/fester,as there is little to nothing to prevent same happening again on other skyscrapers IMO

[isha]

Huge skyscrapers in Turkey? I think the point being made is the resistance that would usually be offered by the structure below.
I'm open to the idea of the weakened internal structures.

[Setanta]

Huge skyscrapers in Turkey? I think the point being made is the resistance that would usually be offered by the structure below.
I'm open to the idea of the weakened internal structures.

The collaspes in Turkey were in similar view of straight down,with seemingly zero resistance.... obviously skyscraper were much larger,but similar concept IMO


Alot of these conspiracies around 9/11 always struck me even at young age,as being particularly flimsy,and allowed fester to distract from glaringly obvious that there's an entire city in New York of similar buildings,with similar build quality and similar outcomes could be expected in a similar style attack and near zero can be done to prevent attacks



Like the one about the pentagon and no evidence a plane hit it.....in reality it stood for guts of hour,after plane cut through it


9/11 is pure rabbithole stuff for people to disappear into.... majority of the high jackers only found out they were going to die,on the morning of the attack (pilot attackers it's presumed knew)....wild eyed crazies that they are presented in media simply isn't the case

[kadman]

https://www.c-span.org/video/?320748-5/ ... -911-truth

[Calahonda52]

Truth

[Cyclepath]

My problem with all of this is that for every 911 conspiracy theory you can find debunking evidence, then counter evidence, then counter-counter evidence. Because the entire event has been buried in swathes of theory and 'evidence' it has become impossible for anyone to derive any clear conclusion.

Even expert engineers can be confused trying to sort through what is factual evidence and what is conjecture. So then you're left with a scenario where idealogical considerations come to the fore. Ideology and engineering don't mix well.

My own approach would be to ask why? Three main principals apply here:

Qui Bono? - Who benefits from this in real terms?
Occams Razor - if you have two competing ideas to explain the same phenomenon, you should prefer the simpler one. The simplest explanation is usually the most likely.
Hanlon's/Naploeon's Razor - Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

In my view I can't see any compelling evidence to set up such a highly dangerous and unpredictable event other than for the purpose of terrorism. To believe the conspiracy theory requires more than physical engineering evidence - you must string together a highly complex scenario where some powerful and psychopathic group benefits significantly in some way other than the simple purpose of terrorism.

[kadman]

Not to mention the laws of physics........

[isha]

- you must string together a highly complex scenario where some powerful and psychopathic group benefits significantly in some way other than the simple purpose of terrorism.

I agree largely with what you say and refer back to my initial post where I tried to convey that in all honesty I'm not hugely invested in 911 theories. Basically I was using an interesting video I had just come across to start a general conspiracy Thread. Because I do believe there are so called conspiracies that are correct.

But as to this last point the American and indeed largely western economy is founded on fossil fuels, armaments and pharmaceuticals. Inconceivably rich and powerful people and lobbies are highly invested in the control of oil and the sale of weapons into perpetual war scenarios. Since 911 - which was undoubtedly a bad blow for the US but minute compared to the death tolls in other lands - we have known an unending war on terror, in various guises, sometimes hot, sometimes cooler, with huge money being made by the powerful psychopaths who rule this planet. Cui bono indeed.


Re the laws of physics. The towers dropped with almost no sign of resistance against free fall speeds. I'm not an engineer but the video itself is evidence that at least some engineers and architects find it odd.

Anyway I'm dealing with a white screen of death here on my drawing app - I think the Rothschilds have finally got to me.

[isha]

In fact to be honest I find it almost conspiratorial the way 911 is supposed to serve as a glyph for the beginning of the fight to conserve a way of life against "terrorists", and is spoken of in reverent tones by the powerful elites. It was just under 3000 people, awful for sure, but literally incomparable to the estimated millions of deaths that ensued in the middle east as a result of the wars it gave permission to unfold. And the psychopaths who instigated those genocides like Blair and Bush are still trotted out in respectable society for us to hear their words of wisdom or admire their geriatric etchings. Fk off, like

PS this is just a general bad tempered rant by me and not directed at anyone at all. Middle aged lady shakes fist at sky stuff

[Cyclepath]

"an interesting video I had just come across "

Yep! And therein lies the problem. I've come across sooooo many videos . And I think, '"wait a minute...", and then another one comes along and I think "how could I have believed that?"

Lots of people that appear to know far more about physics than me can be very convincing

[isha]

"an interesting video I had just come across "

Yep! And therein lies the problem. I've come across sooooo many videos . And I think, '"wait a minute...", and then another one comes along and I think "how could I have believed that?"

Lots of people that appear to know far more about physics than me can be very convincing

Yes I get that too. It's an odd exercise in the toleration of cognitive dissonance. Having my mind changed repeatedly on the same subject feels like pumping iron for the brain

[isha]

I find this interesting. The Independent have published a podcast about the convicted sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein and his relationship with Bill Gates, (who was pushed as one of the saints of the recent pandemic - he invested 10 billion dollars in pandemic response), and an affair the 55 years old married Gates had with Mila Anatova who was in her early 20s at the time and looking for investment funds. The suggestion is that Epstein was using his knowledge of the affair (Anatova lodged with Epstein in later years) as leverage to secure money from Gates. Oh what tangled webs ... But anyway what interests me is that up until recently one was declared a conspiracy theorist if one said a single word against Gates.

https://www.independent.ie/podcasts/the ... 77713.html

[kadman]

The term Conspiracy theory is a term often used to cast doubt on your argument, as a form of ridicule towards you for your belief. Its a well known tactic. I remeber not so long ago if you said anything about ufo coverup, you were branced a conspiracy nut. Now the world govenments are de classifying ufo documnets as well as their own navy filming a ufo.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf ... pops.12285

Conspiracy theory” is widely acknowledged to be a loaded term. Politicians use it to mock and dismiss allegations against them, while philosophers and political scientists warn that it could be used as a rhetorical weapon to pathologize dissent. In two empirical studies conducted on Amazon Mechanical Turk, I present an initial examination of whether this concern is justified. In Experiment 1, 150 participants judged a list of historical and speculative theories to be no less likely when they were labeled “conspiracy theories” than when they were labeled “ideas.” In Experiment 2 (N5802), participants who read a news article about fictitious “corruption allegations” endorsed those allegations no more than participants who saw them labeled“conspiracy theories.” The lack of an effect of the conspiracy-theory label in both experiments was un expected and may be due to a romanticized image of conspiracy theories in popular media or a dilution of the term to include mundane speculation regarding corruption and political intrigue

Byford’s (2011) concern about the dilution of the term maybe well-founded: as the cases of David Cameron (Helm & Boffey, 2011) and Chris Christie (Benen,2014) demonstrate, the label is sometimes used defensively by politicians to associate relatively mun-dane suspicions with fanciful speculation about world-controlling cabals. Rather than putting those sus-picions to rest, this tactic may instead have caused are evaluation of the label itself: For many, it may have prompted the question of whether conspiracy theories might be on the right track after all

[isha]

''Pathologise dissent'' - excellent phrase. I shall be deploying it a future times

[isha]

Yiz thought I would forget my conspiracy thread?

For years now I have read that Obama is gay and was a user of hard drugs.

I thought, maybe still think, that's likely not true.

Not that there's anything wrong with being gay. At all. There's not. Just that he rolls with the happily married man persona, it's always been a huge part of his thing. Barack and Michelle. Facing the world together.

He married Michelle in 1992. Larry Sinclair testified and signed an affidavit in 2008 that in 1999 he had sex and used crack with Obama.

Tucker Carlson is now saying out loud that everyone knew this was true, that Obama is/was gay, but the media were told that if they published on that matter they would have no access to Obama's campaign.

The possible conspiracy here for me is how much truth is potentially contained in such a manner. There are definitely things about Joe Biden that are very off - is there a deal re access and silence. And also how come people who don't go along with staying quiet on certain issues somehow always end up being portrayed as weird low IQ fringe types.

Personally I can understand not wanting to be associated with weird fringe types. We all know them, the shouty, drawn-faced, agitated weirdos who often get animated about unbelievable things. Eww who wants to be on that team

But still, it seems those odd bods may possibly sometimes be right. Maybe?
Or perhaps Obama will sue Carlson for telling lies about him??