Throwaway society and old lawnmowers etc.

[BrianD3]

My parents and I had a Honda walk behind lawnmower for over 30 years, Cast aluminium deck, shaft drive. In that time it just had oil/plug/filter changes and the occasional blade sharpening. Then it developed a problem with the drive and I could find nobody to even look at it. "shur that yoke is ancient, you'd never get parts".

So I tried fixing it myself and found that a lever attached to one of the cables had split and deformed so I got a new lever from ebay - but not before I had already purchased a new lawnmower, also a Honda, for about 1300 euro. I made a conscious decision to not buy a new one from anyone who had dismissed the idea of fixing the old one. The new one isn't as rugged but I expect it will last at least 15 years. Has a plastic deck so no rust.

As following the purchase, I now had two working lawnmowers, I gave the old one away to a friend as his even older 1980s Honda had developed an issue and as in my case, his head was wrecked getting someone to look at it - and grass doesn't stop growing while you're being messed around.

Anyhow the point of this thread is to hopefully generate a discussion about anything from old Honda mowers to other stuff/appliances that you've had for a long time and about our wasteful culture of buying crap and throwing it away - or even buying stuff that isn't crap and getting rid of it on a whim or due to boredom. Anything from cars to vacuum cleaners (I have a 30+ year old Nilfisk that would suck the chrome off a tow hitch)

[marhay70]

My parents and I had a Honda walk behind lawnmower for over 30 years, Cast aluminium deck, shaft drive. In that time it just had oil/plug/filter changes and the occasional blade sharpening. Then it developed a problem with the drive and I could find nobody to even look at it. "shur that yoke is ancient, you'd never get parts".

So I tried fixing it myself and found that a lever attached to one of the cables had split and deformed so I got a new lever from ebay - but not before I had already purchased a new lawnmower, also a Honda, for about 1300 euro. I made a conscious decision to not buy a new one from anyone who had dismissed the idea of fixing the old one. The new one isn't as rugged but I expect it will last at least 15 years. Has a plastic deck so no rust.

As following the purchase, I now had two working lawnmowers, I gave the old one away to a friend as his even older 1980s Honda had developed an issue and as in my case, his head was wrecked getting someone to look at it - and grass doesn't stop growing while you're being messed around.

Anyhow the point of this thread is to hopefully generate a discussion about anything from old Honda mowers to other stuff/appliances that you've had for a long time and about our wasteful culture of buying crap and throwing it away - or even buying stuff that isn't crap and getting rid of it on a whim or due to boredom. Anything from cars to vacuum cleaners (I have a 30+ year old Nilfisk that would suck the chrome off a tow hitch)

The irony of your story is that if you talk to any of the so called experts, they'll tell you to always buy a name brand as you'll never get parts for the spurious ones.

[Setanta]

Honda mowers are the best..... absolutely massive power to weight ratio.....hence why they last so long,as the engine is rarely at its limits (and you can repair the mechanism for engaging blades aswell)


There's a fellow in mayo,who repairs the hydrostatic box for the walk behind mowers

[BrianD3]

The irony of your story is that if you talk to any of the so called experts, they'll tell you to always buy a name brand as you'll never get parts for the spurious ones.

I think in my case the mower lasted so long that Honda had probably stopped producing a lot of the parts for it a long time ago. Small and service parts are still available new online. Other parts are available used online.

I regularly look on donedeal for 1980s Honda walk behind mowers and don't find any for sale. Either they're all gone or those who have them are hanging onto them.

Are people savages that destroy their equipment? Or do they dump functioning equipment well before its expected lifespan simply because it is old.

If suppliers don't want to fix anything and instead want to sell you a new one, this becomes a self perpetuating process of waste. If someone (most people) isn't able to work on a mower themselves, it may be understandable that they would buy a 500 quid no-name mower and scrap it in 5 years at the first sign of trouble rather than buying a 1500 quid Honda that nobody will want to fix in 20 years.

[marhay70]

I think in my case the mower lasted so long that Honda had probably stopped producing a lot of the parts for it a long time ago. Small and service parts are still available new online. Other parts are available used online.

I regularly look on donedeal for 1980s Honda walk behind mowers and don't find any for sale. Either they're all gone or those who have them are hanging onto them.

Are people savages that destroy their equipment? Or do they dump functioning equipment well before its expected lifespan simply because it is old.

If suppliers don't want to fix anything and instead want to sell you a new one, this becomes a self perpetuating process of waste. If someone (most people) isn't able to work on a mower themselves, it may be understandable that they would buy a 500 quid no-name mower and scrap it in 5 years at the first sign of trouble rather than buying a 1500 quid Honda that nobody will want to fix in 20 years.

Yep, I had a Castlegarden 20" for years and always serviced it myself, eventually the body just wouldn't take any more welds or patches, even though it was kept in a shed and kept clean underneath. Even the top brands are not as serviceable today, the dirty phrase "built in obsolescence" has penetrated every industry. Honda themselves, have stopped selling lawnmowers in the US due to mechanical failures and it's probably only a matter of time before that spreads to Europe. It probably means they will eventually stop producing them altogether.
I agree with your sentiments though, on the throwaway society, I grew up post WW2 and we were taught that everything could be mended, to this day I'll pick up random nails, washers, screws etc. with the thought that "it's bound to come in useful someday".

[Fratello]

I bought a LIDL Florabest branded shredder in 2008. Very heavy with a big motor and gearbox.
It worked fine. It had a reverse botton which was operated a sprung momentary switch to unjam it.
Anyone, one day it decided to run backwards from the start and I was able to make it go forwards by pressing the button but over a short time it insisted on backwards all the time. I opened it to see what it was but there was far too much electronics. So I resorted to cutting 2 of the 4 motor cables and swapping them over to change the motor's direction. It worked. Only drawback is I have no reverse but I might wire in a double pole switch at some point on my cut cables to achieve this.

After that things ran smoothly until it started failing then gave up. Out with the screwdrivers again. A capacitor had snapped off the board with vibrations. Soldered it back and off she went again.
Happened again so soldered it better and a bit of glue to stop the capacitor ratteling.

This damp Spring 4m3 I used it more than ever with 4m3 of shreddings out of it. It's a shame to think that someone else would have chucked it on the first fault.

[CelticRambler]

to this day I'll pick up random nails, washers, screws etc. with the thought that "it's bound to come in useful someday".

I opened it to see what it was ... resorted to cutting 2 of the 4 motor cables and swapping them over to change the motor's direction. It worked ... until it started failing then gave up. Out with the screwdrivers again. A capacitor had snapped off the board with vibrations. Soldered it back and off she went again.

It's a shame to think that someone else would have chucked it on the first fault.

It's a "chicken and egg" situation. These things are ever more refined and customised, with ever more miniaturised electronic circuitry, so even if you're not afraid to break it open, chances are the fault will be hard to find and/or impossible to fix, no mater what random odds and ends you've kept. That creates a mindset that it's not worth even trying, so people don't, and then lose the skill necessary to diagnose and fix basic problems. Add to that the problem of storing a few crates of "might-come-in-useful" rubbish in houses that barely have enough room for standard-sized furniture and it's a self-reinforcing situation. Obviously it suits the purveyors of "stuff" for people to throw it out at first glitch and buy a replacement.

[JayZeus]

I buy broken machines and equipment and fix them, then sell them and buy more broken stuff to fix. It’s a self-funding hobby and I’ve ended up with a savage set of tools and extensive set of skills and knowledge at this stage. Little intimidates me apart from SMT electronics (if they’re potted, they’re scrap) and some high voltage stuff. Everything else can be fixed and often improved upon.

The problem or a large part of it as I see it is that everyone wants to make every decision as if it’s something justifying a business case with ROI calculation, and they’ll junk stuff and buy a replacement rather than invest time and money into fixing things. It’s maddening. I bought a cheap chainsaw needing new crankshaft seals which are only available from the manufacturer. They cost €35 for a saw I paid €20 for, and I spent another €70 replacing everything that was worn out or would fail soon. That’s €125 for a 33 year old chainsaw.

Most would not dream of it, even though it’s as simple as it gets to rebuild, and it’s better made than a replacement costing 2-3 times as much in the manufacturers current product line. It’s not in the least bit special or collectible, but it will easily give many years more service. I sold it for €150, and bought another. I can do it and it’s enjoyable. I don’t need to make a profit and most people don’t either. Fixing things should just be what we do for the sake of everyone, not to make a few quid. That’s what has so much of this stuff going to landfill FFS.

[marhay70]

I buy broken machines and equipment and fix them, then sell them and buy more broken stuff to fix. It’s a self-funding hobby and I’ve ended up with a savage set of tools and extensive set of skills and knowledge at this stage. Little intimidates me apart from SMT electronics (if they’re potted, they’re scrap) and some high voltage stuff. Everything else can be fixed and often improved upon.

The problem or a large part of it as I see it is that everyone wants to make every decision as if it’s something justifying a business case with ROI calculation, and they’ll junk stuff and buy a replacement rather than invest time and money into fixing things. It’s maddening. I bought a cheap chainsaw needing new crankshaft seals which are only available from the manufacturer. They cost €35 for a saw I paid €20 for, and I spent another €70 replacing everything that was worn out or would fail soon. That’s €125 for a 33 year old chainsaw.

Most would not dream of it, even though it’s as simple as it gets to rebuild, and it’s better made than a replacement costing 2-3 times as much in the manufacturers current product line. It’s not in the least bit special or collectible, but it will easily give many years more service. I sold it for €150, and bought another. I can do it and it’s enjoyable. I don’t need to make a profit and most people don’t either. Fixing things should just be what we do for the sake of everyone, not to make a few quid. That’s what has so much of this stuff going to landfill FFS.

A most satisfying hobby, I'd love to still be able to do that. As you say yourself though, you realised €25 on the venture. I assume you didn't include, time, power usage, wear and tear, marketing and storage in your calculation of outlay? These are things a commercial company would have to take into account and really, make the operation unprofitable. Commercial operators have one reason to exist and that is to make money so while you might see it as a labour of love, that term doesn't exist in the commercial world.
Then there is the question of spare parts. The inventories of companies like Honda, Bosch, Husqvarna etc, must be huge, just covering the models they do, I'd imagine if they were cover every model they ever made, it would take enormous commitment of facilities and that's before you take all the different tooling that would need to be maintained to manufacture them.
Again, living in Ireland is a drawback. I'm often amazed, watching various restoration programmes on UK tv, at the number of services and parts readily available to restorers, even those restoring obscure models of cars, motorbikes, kitchen appliances etc. there seems to be an enthusiasts club for everything. Trying to get parts for even the most modern appliances can be a challenge when you live in Ireland, spare or replacement batteries is one that particularly stands out, but even carburettor kits for popular makes of lawnmowerscan be difficult to source.

[Norman Breaks]

Had a situation in a gaff I was renting from a few years back. I knocked the oven temperature knob with a large full pot and it snapped off right at the hilt. It was just cheap cast metal. No big deal I thought. Should be able to buy a knob and replace it easy enough.
So off I go to the local parts supplier thinking I would be walking out with a $10 knob.
But nope. You can't buy the knob on it's own. You have to buy the knob, the wires that run down to the thermostat and the thermostat too. The cheapest was over $100. I just checked now and some of the kits are over $400! Inflation wha?
So back home I go and inform the landlord. I had been trying to get it all sorted without involving them but this was above my pay grade. I told them the cost for the fix. (parts only mind you, labour would have probably been the same again).
So what did they do? They bought a similar one second hand and said as long as I go pick it up it'll be even.
I had a buddy with a truck help me move the old one out to the back lane and bring the new one in.
The one in the back lane was taken away before it got dark, probably for scrap.
I guess part a large part of the cause of our throw away mentality is because they've made it so repairing is just not financially beneficially anymore. Even if you provide your own labour, the parts cost more than half the price of a new one with a 1 or 2 year warranty.

[CelticRambler]

But nope. You can't buy the knob on it's own. You have to buy the knob, the wires that run down to the thermostat and the thermostat too. The cheapest was over $100.

I've come across this too, and it seems to affect "brand names" more than cheap crap ... which is one reason why I've increasingly opted to buy "cheap Chinese crap" in recent years - because I can buy individual component parts, usually for less than a euro with free delivery. Admittedly sometimes it can be quite the challenge to track down a part with an unhelpfully ultra-generic description and no reference number to go by, but for the most part a slow trawl through multiple pages of AliExpress will eventually yield results.

That said, my father - a lifelong Mr. Fixit - wastes an awful lot of money on these kinds of spares, because he wants to get the job done. No matter that my sister/nephew/long-lost cousin hasn't been using "the thing" for six months, he'll get it into his head that he needs that component today, not next week, and will pay ten or twenty times the price I'd pay for next-week delivery (and he'll make a 100km round trip to pick it up ). He's an old dog; I'm not going to try teaching him new tricks - especially as I've still got some old-tech tricks to learn from him.

[Norman Breaks]

Here is some links.

Here are some fully working ranges for sale in the $250 price point.
https://www.kijiji.ca/b-winnipeg/electr ... ue&dc=true

Here is a replacement thermostat for $188 before tax.
https://www.amresupply.com/part/12331624

What sort of message is this sending?

Edit to add price of brand new:
https://www.geappliances.com/appliance/ ... JBS160DMWW