Electric bikes

[schmittel]

I'm giving serious consideration to buying an electric bike. Basically to fill two roles - occasional alternative to car if I need to nip to shops and occasional hobby go for a ride, not looking for a work out but a bit of light exercise would do me no harm.

I live semi rural, about 5km from local town, some of roads near me would be rough enough, so looking for something sturdy. Budget 1500 max, current favourite is RadRunner - https://radpowerbikes.eu/products/radru ... 0781276253

Anyone here had one and any top tips to share?

[Hairy-Joe]

There are two Thompson folding electric bikes at home. They are about the same size (frame and wheel) as that one you've linked. Just a few points on them.

• The wheel size makes them uncomfortable on slightly rough roads (imagine our typical broken tarmac road). Unless you need the small wheels, try to get bigger wheels

• Range is about 40km but I don't know battery size

• Bike is terrible to cycle with no assistance. It's energy sapping

• The Thompson has front wheel drive. Don't get that as it can Scrabble for grip on low grip surfaces. Crank motors are the best

• For carrying loads, get two pannier bags and balance the loads. Due to the small frame, the panniers may clip your ankles when peddling if not placed appropriately

Edit. My 70plus mother wouldn't think twice about jumping on the Thompson and cycling 20km to 30km. She doesn't like gravel through

[schmittel]

There are two Thompson folding electric bikes at home. They are about the same size (frame and wheel) as that one you've linked. Just a few points on them.

• The wheel size makes them uncomfortable on slightly rough roads (imagine our typical broken tarmac road). Unless you need the small wheels, try to get bigger wheels

• Range is about 40km but I don't know battery size

• Bike is terrible to cycle with no assistance. It's energy sapping

• The Thompson has front wheel drive. Don't get that as it can Scrabble for grip on low grip surfaces. Crank motors are the best

• For carrying loads, get two pannier bags and balance the loads. Due to the small frame, the panniers may clip your ankles when peddling if not placed appropriately

Edit. My 70plus mother wouldn't think twice about jumping on the Thompson and cycling 20km to 30km. She doesn't like gravel through

Thanks, helpful to get some thoughts.

Presumably terrible to cycle without assistance is only an issue if you run out of battery? I'd be mostly within a 5-10k radius of home so would hope not to get caught short.

How are hills? Does your Thomson have gears? Is folding a big plus for convenience, or does it feel weaker? (I have got it into my head that folding bikes are more likely to break, and have largely dismissed them)

[Hairy-Joe]

Thanks, helpful to get some thoughts.

Presumably terrible to cycle without assistance is only an issue if you run out of battery? I'd be mostly within a 5-10k radius of home so would hope not to get caught short.

How are hills? Does your Thomson have gears?

Gears are three in the rear hub.

Yes terrible with no battery.

Hills are not a problem at all. If in Killarney, the 70plus mother (dodgy back, arthritis, etc) will tear out to the top of the Gap of Dunloe without really noticing the hills. Towards the top, it's a case of upping the assistance.

[kadman]

I know my brother has an electric bike and uses it quite often. But as i understand it, you need to peddle most of the time at least to keep the battery charged, but I am open to correction on this.

[Hairy-Joe]

It's electric assistance. The motor kicks in when you pedal. Sometimes there can be a delay of a second and that can be a shock if not ready. If the bike allows for electrical motion without user input, it's not really legal (as it's then a mechanically propelled vehicle)

What's worse is if starting and the assistance is set to high is that there can be a right kick when it starts. I've seen someone come off their bike due to the assistance being set to the highest and not being able to manage the kick. They came off and broke their wrist. Starting off, the mother has no assistance and after a few seconds turns it on. She finds it the best way to manage the assistance clicking in when starting.

[peasant]

All the standard (and expensive) e-bikes with Bosch, Yamaha or Brose motors have crank mounted motors with torque sensors. The harder you pedal, the more the motor assists..and then you can choose different levels of assist on top of that.
This setup makes for a very natural cycling sensation...no kicks, no jolts, just extra power. Plus you have the added bonus of regular gears at the rear wheel.

Cheaper bikes (be they hub or crank motor powered) usually don't have the torque sensor but just detect the rotation of the crank (more or less well) and then kick on the motor. This can be good (you can fly along even though you're not really pedaling but just turning the crank over lightly) or bad (it kicks you off the bike, as described above)

1500 is not going to buy you an e-bike with a Bosch motor, not in the current market.

Personally I would recommend this

https://wheelsgo.net/tongsheng-tsdz2-mi ... rsion-kit/

I've got this motor in a factory bought touring bike (mounted by the factory) some years ago and I'm very happy with it.

You should be able to fit this to any standard bike yourself (or with a little help with removing the original crank). That way you can pick a good used bike that really suits you.

this is what my e-bike looks like:

[schmittel]

All the standard (and expensive) e-bikes with Bosch, Yamaha or Brose motors have crank mounted motors with torque sensors. The harder you pedal, the more the motor assists..and then you can choose different levels of assist on top of that.
This setup makes for a very natural cycling sensation...no kicks, no jolts, just extra power. Plus you have the added bonus of regular gears at the rear wheel.

Cheaper bikes (be they hub or crank motor powered) usually don't have the torque sensor but just detect the rotation of the crank (more or less well) and then kick on the motor. This can be good (you can fly along even though you're not really pedaling but just turning the crank over lightly) or bad (it kicks you off the bike, as described above)

1500 is not going to buy you an e-bike with a Bosch motor, not in the current market.

Personally I would recommend this

https://wheelsgo.net/tongsheng-tsdz2-mi ... rsion-kit/

I've got this motor in a factory bought touring bike (mounted by the factory) some years ago and I'm very happy with it.

You should be able to fit this to any standard bike yourself (or with a little help with removing the original crank). That way you can pick a good used bike that really suits you.

this is what my e-bike looks like:

Cheers, had a quick look at that and does sound interesting. And I love a good rabbit hole.

[peasant]

just saw this ... somebody in Wexford that does just this conversion:

https://www.donedeal.ie/bicycles-for-sa ... n/28934253

[Hairy-Joe]

I learned something new about the crank motors and the torque sensors. I never realised that as my experience was all with hub motors.

Gubu is good for some things

[schmittel]

So, thanks to peasant, have spent most of my weekend thus far glued to YouTube videos of DIY e-bike builds.

I did find some time to rummage around the shed and unearth this:

before.jpg (120.77 KiB) Viewed 5703 times

Which is going to be my donor bike for the Tongsheng TSDZ2 kit linked earlier.

Initially thought could clean up and keep most parts, but after some enthusiastic dismantling have decided to replace everything bar the frame. So now the bike looks like this:

IMG_20211114_091312 (1).jpg (97.23 KiB) Viewed 5703 times

Apart from the new motor and crank etc, it will get new wheels, brakes, gears, saddle, handlebars etc etc.

Undoubtedly it would be cheaper to buy a decent quality second hand bike, but where's the fun in that? Did I mention I love a good rabbit hole?

[peasant]

Well ..have fun down the rabbit hole

Just one thought though:
If this frame was originally set for you, with its very long saddle tube and handlebar extensions ..I wouldn't use it, it's too small.

Sure, the motor "only" pushes you to 25 km/h, but trust me, you will be going a lot faster on average than you used to on a pure pushbike and this whole setup looks a bit wobbly to me.

When I was still able to commute to work, I used to get average speeds of 23 - 24 km/h. Because of the motor assist you can really power up hills, which means you're going down faster as well as you start with a higher initial speed from the top. Neither while powering up nor while flying down do you want a bike that's all loosy-goosy under you.

[schmittel]

Well ..have fun down the rabbit hole

Just one thought though:
If this frame was originally set for you, with its very long saddle tube and handlebar extensions ..I wouldn't use it, it's too small.

Sure, the motor "only" pushes you to 25 km/h, but trust me, you will be going a lot faster on average than you used to on a pure pushbike and this whole setup looks a bit wobbly to me.

When I was still able to commute to work, I used to get average speeds of 23 - 24 km/h. Because of the motor assist you can really power up hills, which means you're going down faster as well as you start with a higher initial speed from the top. Neither while powering up nor while flying down do you want a bike that's all loosy-goosy under you.

Ok, that sounds like quite a good point. Not set up for me, wife's old bike, and it did feel a little small at that seat height etc.

I'd considered size and bought a bigger fork second hand, but this was largely with comfort in mind, and I'd still need a long saddle tube. Must admit had not really considered size impact on stability.

But will do so now. At the moment not too far into this frame to bin the idea and buy second hand.

[peasant]

Something with bottle holders on the frame (the welded -on fixing points) might come in handy ...makes for a very good fixing point for the heavy battery. You don't want that high up on the rack either.

[SmartinMartin]

This is the one I have, using it for the last year. 70km distance with a range of assistance. On sale within your budget, for the price it's unbeatable.

https://www.halfords.ie/bikes/mens-bike ... 45998.html

[schmittel]

Reviving this thread as have made some progress since I last posted.

Binned the idea of using the old scrapper I had lying about at home.

Spent a whole pile more time on YouTube watching DIY conversion ebike videos.

Bought a used bike:

badboy.jpg (149.67 KiB) Viewed 5426 times

It's a Cannondale Badboy circa 2015.

Bought this because it's much larger frame and a good fit, has disc brakes, and was a good price because crank arms were threaded - but replacing them anyway so didn't care - and added bonus is it is totally black so all wiring I add to it will blend in a bit better.

Ordered a Bafang BBS01B mid drive motor kit plus a 36v battery.

While I wait for kit to arrive, I have removed crank arms, chain ring and bottom bracket from the bike. It just now needs a bit of a clean and will be ready to install the motor.

Hoping that posting my progress on here will keep me focussed if I hit a hurdle and lessen the chances of it ending up a pile of bits in the shed!

[Memento Mori]

I made one previously with a Bafang middrive like your one but more powerful. You will need to buy the programming tool to get the most use out of it, it's cheap enough USB wire so you can plug into your PC and change the settings.

[Memento Mori]

Also buy some quality grease, open the motor and pack it with grease, it tends to come with no or very little crappy grease.

[schmittel]

SO the kit finally arrived this morning, and am just about to get cracking. In a race against time to try and get it done by Friday when my wife and kids come home.

Found the perfect spot to work on it with natural light and a handy low table to organise all the bits, but my wife will have a fit if she discovers I am using the kids play area as a bike workshop!

bafang.jpg (211.33 KiB) Viewed 5327 times

[Hairy-Joe]

We won't tell....

[CelticRambler]

You mean that's not the new Meccano set that all the rage in primary school?

[schmittel]

Almost done. All functioning at least, just took for a test spin. It's brilliant.

20220113_1448171051.jpg (284.73 KiB) Viewed 5276 times

Just need to weatherproof the wiring behind the battery, and tidy up wiring around the handlebars, but going to buy a front rack for it, so will wait until I have that.

Installing the kit was actually pretty straightforward, the main issues I had were down to the bike rather than the kit. Biggest problem I had was the cable for rear derailleur was internally routed and popped out to run under bottom bracket. I left it in place and thought I'd have enough clearance between motor and bottom bracket. Only discovered I didn't when it motor was mounted and tightened and the cable to squeezed to much to work.

At that stage I thought it better to reroute the cable than undo the motor. Ended up buying a new derailleur and shifter for it, this was not entirely necessary but just made that decision when in the bike shop to but new cables.

The other problem was with the battery mounting plate. Cannot get both screws into water bottle holder fixings due to their position on the bike, and I'll have to come up with a fix for that.

And if I was doing it again, I'd go for mechanical disc brakes rather than hydraulic because the mechanism for brake sensors is much simpler. Have not managed to get my brake sensors installed yet, so will just have to be careful until I get that sorted. It just means there is a slight lag in the motor stopping when you pull the brakes, with the sensor the motor is killed instantly.

Apart from sorting the above will put tyres on it better suited to local terrain, and then it's all good to go.

[Memento Mori]

Almost done. All functioning at least, just took for a test spin. It's brilliant.

20220113_1448171051.jpg

Just need to weatherproof the wiring behind the battery, and tidy up wiring around the handlebars, but going to buy a front rack for it, so will wait until I have that.

Installing the kit was actually pretty straightforward, the main issues I had were down to the bike rather than the kit. Biggest problem I had was the cable for rear derailleur was internally routed and popped out to run under bottom bracket. I left it in place and thought I'd have enough clearance between motor and bottom bracket. Only discovered I didn't when it motor was mounted and tightened and the cable to squeezed to much to work.

At that stage I thought it better to reroute the cable than undo the motor. Ended up buying a new derailleur and shifter for it, this was not entirely necessary but just made that decision when in the bike shop to but new cables.

The other problem was with the battery mounting plate. Cannot get both screws into water bottle holder fixings due to their position on the bike, and I'll have to come up with a fix for that.

And if I was doing it again, I'd go for mechanical disc brakes rather than hydraulic because the mechanism for brake sensors is much simpler. Have not managed to get my brake sensors installed yet, so will just have to be careful until I get that sorted. It just means there is a slight lag in the motor stopping when you pull the brakes, with the sensor the motor is killed instantly.

Apart from sorting the above will put tyres on it better suited to local terrain, and then it's all good to go.

Transparent high strength fishing line can be useful to help tie the plate to the bike, and perhaps a ratchet strap around the battery. Orientating the battery the other way around may allow you to fit both screws in. I would reiterate my advice to open the motor and grease it. Bring the special spanner that tighten on the bottom bracket when you go on a cycle as sometimes it comes loose when new. Pedaling a bit backward should cut motor quicker. Happy motoring!

[316670]

The price seems to start at €1500 and the fancy ones are way more expensive, so it raises the question, just how much are the Deliveroo/Uber Eats cyclist earning? Hundreds of them on the streets of Dublin and 95% have a electric bike, some look VERY expensive, so what's the story here?

[peasant]

so what's the story here?

Shur, all them forrigners gets free e-bikes from the gubbermint with their assaylumm claim, don't you know...

Lamest attempt at dragging a thread off topic ...evvah