Just how green are EV?

[Hairy-Joe]

I was reading this article on how green are EV's when it comes to their use. It's interesting as it takes all different power generation into account. It shows that yes, EV are better for CO2 emissions compared to petrol. The magnitude is what's interesting for me (a dyed in the wool petrolhead).


https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electr ... w-green-ev

The numbers would be even better for here I imagine due to the amount of wind energy generated here.

[Cyclepath]

This is reassuring since most of my driving uses the 30km of battery range in my plug in hybrid. The relatively small tank of fuel (36L) can last months.

Since buying an electric bike, I do very little driving tbh. I really only need the car to do shopping of the kind that won't fit in a bike pannier, or when going somewhere with the missus.

However, what the article doesn't cover is the relative environmental impact of manufacturing Electric Vs ICE cars. I'd love to get some data on the impact of battery production. I did read somewhere that keeping and maintaining an ICE (not diesel) car is greener than scrapping it for a new EV.

[Frank]

This is reassuring since most of my driving uses the 30km of battery range in my plug in hybrid. The relatively small tank of fuel (36L) can last months.

Since buying an electric bike, I do very little driving tbh. I really only need the car to do shopping of the kind that won't fit in a bike pannier, or when going somewhere with the missus.

However, what the article doesn't cover is the relative environmental impact of manufacturing Electric Vs ICE cars. I'd love to get some data on the impact of battery production. I did read somewhere that keeping and maintaining an ICE (not diesel) car is greener than scrapping it for a new EV.

This alone is why the scale of the whole thing is a complete sham we're being fed. The only solutions so far to climate change are the ones that keep the gravy train going - if it were that dire a situation then people keeping things for longer (but then not spending loads of money and making rich people richer) would be exactly what we should all have been asked to do. And it's not just in transport that this situation exists, far from it. At this stage climate change is just another business.

[knownunknown]

The battery production is much more co2 intensive but over the lifetime of the electric vehicle you would see less emissions in about 95% of the world, at least according to this report in nature.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-0488-7.epdf

[Hairy-Joe]

Ya I'd be interested in some hard numbers (peer reviewed from a high impact journal) on the production of EV against ICE cars.

I remember hearing numbers before that it was 60k to 80k before the EV went to offsetting the difference but I don't know what values they used for emissions from their use.

Edit - and then someone provides one!

[Cyclepath]

This alone is why the scale of the whole thing is a complete sham we're being fed. The only solutions so far to climate change are the ones that keep the gravy train going - if it were that dire a situation then people keeping things for longer (but then not spending loads of money and making rich people richer) would be exactly what we should all have been asked to do. And it's not just in transport that this situation exists, far from it. At this stage climate change is just another business.

Yep, I agree, and lets face it there simply aren't enough rare earth minerals to go around - we can't all have electric cars. Not with current technologies anyhow.

I had a 12 y/o merc diesel that drank fuel on the mainly short trips I do and I replaced it with a plug in hybrid. There was a definite (selfish) strategy to hedge my bets in terms of available fuel/power, but the simple fact is we'll all most likely have to consume less power and fewer materials in the future.

I have a push bike and an electric bike, both of which now suffice for most trips. It's the best way to reduce your carbon consumption per km!

[Hairy-Joe]

I'd seriously consider an EV (given I'm a petrolhead at heart) but there's none that fit my usage pattern. Oh it would suit for maybe 80% of the time but it's the final 20% that's the problem..

[Cyclepath]

This is an interesting take on the relative greenness of Petrol/Hybrid/EV. I do love an argument that justifies my recent purchase

[Séimhe]

Great thread. That was a good read @knownunknown.

I had trouble with your link on mobile but this should work well if anyone wants it https://iarfhlaith.notion.site/Emission ... c719d3cbd5

Some highlights from the findings:
“Overall, we find that current and future life-cycle emissions from EVs and HPs are on average lower than those of new petrol cars and fossil boilers—not just on the global aggregate but also in most individual countries. Over time, in increasingly more regions even the use of inefficient EVs or HPs is less emission intensive than the most efficient new petrol cars or fossil boilers.”

“Finally, our findings imply (1) that support for high-efficiency fossil fuel technologies may be justified only in the short term, when the market uptake of EVs and HPs can still be constrained by limited production capacities and necessary infrastructure adjust- ments”