The (French) government doing what I've been saying all along!

[CelticRambler]

Sometime our Glorious Leaders actually apply some common sense.

For years, I've been wondering why the government has been handing out wads of money to cover good green farmland with black glass-and-metal eyesores, while so many hectares of out-of-town shopping centre carparks are left to soak up the summer sun and use that heat to keep the towns they surround unbearably hot in the evenings. Well, not any more. As of next year, anyone building a car park in France of more than 1500m²/80 spaces will have to cover it with solar panels, and everyone with an existing car park will have three or five years to fall into line.

[knownunknown]

Sometime our Glorious Leaders actually apply some common sense.

For years, I've been wondering why the government has been handing out wads of money to cover good green farmland with black glass-and-metal eyesores, while so many hectares of out-of-town shopping centre carparks are left to soak up the summer sun and use that heat to keep the towns they surround unbearably hot in the evenings. Well, not any more. As of next year, anyone building a car park in France of more than 1500m²/80 spaces will have to cover it with solar panels, and everyone with an existing car park will have three or five years to fall into line.

Where are the cars supposed to sit, on top of the solar panels? Or do they need a roof made out of solar panels, I’m not quite getting this i think because it sounds very much like the failed, ‘solar roadways’.

https://www.engineersireland.ie/Covid-1 ... roportions

[CelticRambler]

The cars go where they've always gone - in the spaces on the ground. The panels go over the top.

It's not actually that revolutionary an idea, as many places in the south already do this to provide shaded parking in the summer, and in the mountains they do it to provide (relatively) snow-free parking in the winter.

[knownunknown]

The cars go where they've always gone - in the spaces on the ground. The panels go over the top.

It's not actually that revolutionary an idea, as many places in the south already do this to provide shaded parking in the summer, and in the mountains they do it to provide (relatively) snow-free parking in the winter.

Why not just require roofing then without the solar panels which would be far cheaper. To be efficient those panels would have to track the angle of the sun and they’d be producing energy when you need it the least.

[CelticRambler]

The purpose is to increase the acreage of solar panels installed across the country, not put roofs on carparks. And just like every other permanent installation already in place, they work pretty well without having to track the sun hour-by-hour once the best orientation has been chosen at the time of building. Sounds like you're well behind the curve on how solar energy works.

[knownunknown]

The purpose is to increase the acreage of solar panels installed across the country, not put roofs on carparks. And just like every other permanent installation already in place, they work pretty well without having to track the sun hour-by-hour once the best orientation has been chosen at the time of building. Sounds like you're well behind the curve on how solar energy works.

So why build roofs to put them on if you could lay them much more cheaply on the ground?

What I think we’ll see is car parking spaces being limited to 79 by their owners to avoid all of this.

[kadman]

Sounds like another EU gravy train about to pull into the station and to offload millions to business people with an idea...
Similar to the leader programmes here that wait for an announcement about funding for this, that and t'other, and them design a local CES free labour scheme to pull in the funding...

[KHD]

Any drawings or examples of how they plan on covering the car parks ? Just out of curiosity.

[CelticRambler]

I imagine they'll be pretty much exactly the same as all the non-ground level agricultural installations that have been built - four legs and a big empty space underneath.

The non-obligatory ones I've seen so far look like this:


Here's another non-obligatory one that I cruised past a few weeks ago - the dispatch depot for Peugot-Citroen on the banks of the Rhine - about 100000m²


The last time I was there, it was just 57 hectares of non-productive concrete.

[KHD]

I'm surprised the solar companies here, well in reality German companies, haven't locked onto this idea. Plenty of shopping centre and other types of car parks here that could accommodate that sort of installation.

[CelticRambler]

That's the thing - at a time of supposed food shortages, why sacrifice decent arable land when there's plenty of concrete and tarmac that's doing nothing other than collecting drips of oil and manky facemasks.

(Accepting that the argument in favour solar is quite a bit stronger in France compared to Ireland)

[Hairy-Joe]

Do you think our crowd would bring something like that in?

I can see another benefit, lower car cabin temperatures in the summer so less A/C blasting to try to cool the cabins. Less A/C blasting means less fuel burnt cooling the cabin.

I can see one problem though. What about people like us with higher than normal (3m high) vehicles? Will we be able to squeeze the camper in under them if we visit Auchan when shopping?

[knownunknown]

What about when it’s cold and you have less sunshine than normal making it even colder meaning you need more heating!

The French government are compelling car parks to turn into solar energy farms. The outlay must be enormous aswell as needing more regular staff just for maintenance. Not to mention the amount of dirt, dust, grit and snow that’ll get stuck to them making them less efficient over time and in need of replacement every so many years. Kind of shows what desperate measures are being taken due to scares without energy.

You could just aswell compel everyone to put one on the roof of their houses, what a great idea think of all the free electricity. Why isn’t this happening?

This car park thing is happening in Wicklow too.

“Wicklow County Council is planning to build a 300kW solar car park canopy, covering c.1,600m2 or c.140 parking bays. The canopy will consist of a T-frame, monopitch angled at 10° to the south, approx. 3m high. The canopy will have uninterrupted exposure to the sun, will provide shade from sun and rain to cars and pedestrians underneath, and will significantly reduce light pollution through under-canopy lighting. It will be co-located with EV charging points, which offer the potential of renewably powered EVs and increased comfort for EV drivers while connecting their vehicles to a charger. “

https://www.caro.ie/projects-research/c ... n-car-park

[CelticRambler]

Not to mention the amount of dirt, dust, grit and snow that’ll get stuck to them making them less efficient over time and in need of replacement every so many years. Kind of shows what desperate measures are being taken due to scares without energy.

You could just aswell compel everyone to put one on the roof of their houses, what a great idea think of all the free electricity. Why isn’t this happening?

For the most part, they're self-cleaning. And I don't need to be compelled to put one on my house, I've just been waiting for the right kind of tiles to become available (no thanks to never-deliver-Elon ) All being well, I'll be producing free electricity for myself for the whole of my retirement, and more than enough extra to power all the other houses in the hamlet .... except half of them are already getting theirs from one of the neighbouring farmer's new barns, so it'll go to feed the power-hungry town-dwellers instead.

Recent excursions with my completely off-grid 230V installation on the camper have exceeded my expectations, despite regularly finding myself with little choice in picking the best orientation ... or weather.

I can see one problem though. What about people like us with higher than normal (3m high) vehicles? Will we be able to squeeze the camper in under them if we visit Auchan when shopping?

Should be fine - there are more than enough camping-caristes in France (and high-spending Germans) to ensure that our accessibility needs are taken into consideration. And besides, the supermarkets all need a high-level roof under which to park their rentable 20m³ trucks.

[kadman]

New builds might be ok . But retro fitting existing areas might be another question. Existing areas probably dont have the substrata suitable for plonking down columns, beams and canopies to take the wind and snow loads to stop these collapsing. Originally substrat would have been specced for compressive loads. Vertical columns and beams and roofs now introduce a whole set of other forces that was absent in the original .

And what with more inclement weather being predicted due to climate change, who knows what will happen. Of course that makes no odds here anyway as we dont inspect fek all when it comes to building projects anyway. Yeah so bring it on.

[CelticRambler]

But retro fitting existing areas might be another question. Existing areas probably dont have the substrata suitable for plonking down columns, beams and canopies to take the wind and snow loads to stop these collapsing. Originally substrat would have been specced for compressive loads. Vertical columns and beams and roofs now introduce a whole set of other forces that was absent in the original .

That's where there'll be a great load of money to be made. Comes at a good time too, as the various bureaux d'études had pretty much run out of victims to bleed for PMR access projects.

[Jack The Stripper]

New builds might be ok . But retro fitting existing areas might be another question. Existing areas probably dont have the substrata suitable for plonking down columns, beams and canopies to take the wind and snow loads to stop these collapsing. Originally substrat would have been specced for compressive loads. Vertical columns and beams and roofs now introduce a whole set of other forces that was absent in the original .

And what with more inclement weather being predicted due to climate change, who knows what will happen. Of course that makes no odds here anyway as we dont inspect fek all when it comes to building projects anyway. Yeah so bring it on.

With the over engineering there is more concrete and steel gone into structures that needed.
I did up a old stone stone house recently, original roof rafters were 4x2 engineer specifications now were 6x2 and had to make a ring beam of concrete 12 inches in height.
Engineers are like a friendly bar tender. Ask for a shot of whiskey and get a shot and a half.

[kadman]

With the over engineering there is more concrete and steel gone into structures that needed.
I did up a old stone stone house recently, original roof rafters were 4x2 engineer specifications now were 6x2 and had to make a ring beam of concrete 12 inches in height.
Engineers are like a friendly bar tender. Ask for a shot of whiskey and get a shot and a half.

But you are not dealing with structures, you are dealing with existing car parks.

Sounds like your engineer knows his stuff. Ring beam on refurbing an would probably be the norm now, and 6x2 rafters is a good call, major benefits over a 4x2 rafter obviously on all fronts.
I cant recall when I last saw a 4x2 specced for anything else that timberframe studwork back in the 90's. But thats another thread.

Engineer will always over spec to be fair. But that doesn'mean builders will carry out his instructions in hidden closed areas

[kadman]

That's where there'll be a great load of money to be made. Comes at a good time too, as the various bureaux d'études had pretty much run out of victims to bleed for PMR access projects.

Thats right....another EU gravy train pulling into plat form 1

[KHD]

New builds might be ok . But retro fitting existing areas might be another question. Existing areas probably dont have the substrata suitable for plonking down columns, beams and canopies to take the wind and snow loads to stop these collapsing. Originally substrat would have been specced for compressive loads. Vertical columns and beams and roofs now introduce a whole set of other forces that was absent in the original .

And what with more inclement weather being predicted due to climate change, who knows what will happen. Of course that makes no odds here anyway as we dont inspect fek all when it comes to building projects anyway. Yeah so bring it on.

I guess when you factor in that there is no proper reinforced footings to bolt down an rsj, in that all you have is either hard-core and tarmac or hard-core and concrete that is not reinforced with steel, it is basically rip up the car park and start again. So it's not the magical bullet i initially thought. Factor in drainage considerations / rerouting, existing underground cabling, connection to a local substation and the works associated with that, also the structures would need to be of sufficient strength that they could take an impact from someone who doesn't have good parking abilities and the wind and the whole thing looks to be an expensive waste of money.

I suspect when you factor all these things in there will be some car parks closing over this.

[CelticRambler]

Factor in drainage considerations / rerouting, existing underground cabling, connection to a local substation and the works associated with that ... the whole thing looks to be an expensive waste of money.

I suspect when you factor all these things in there will be some car parks closing over this.

Connection to the local substation is no problem. I've been down this road with regards to my own project and the connection is made at the pole on the far side of the road. For reasons that are unknown to me, a huge percentage of the French electrical distribution system is a three-phase supply right up to the point of delivery. As my supply was modernised and "downgraded" to single phase by the previous occupants (motorway construction engineers, somewhat ironically) that's something I will have to include in my project planning, but for a car-park type project it'll only mean installing a box on the edge of the property and tapping into the cables that are almost certainly already running underground across the front.

Drainage is an interesting one, because in parallel, there is a lot of talk being talked about trying to capture the more frequent deluges that flood carparks and the streets that feed them. Rain-water scavenging systems are already heavily promoted, and there's a programme in place to rip up as many concreted/tarmacked square metres in town centres and replace them with "living" surfaces and trees - that need water.

[Hairy-Joe]

The worrying thing CR is that it appears that they have actually thought this through. How is that possible? a civil service doing something sensible for once?

[knownunknown]

I suspect when you factor all these things in there will be some car parks closing over this.

They only need limit their spaces to under 79 to avoid it. I bet there’s clever work around where large car parks become divided up and part owned.

[Jack The Stripper]

But you are not dealing with structures, you are dealing with existing car parks.

Sounds like your engineer knows his stuff. Ring beam on refurbing an would probably be the norm now, and 6x2 rafters is a good call, major benefits over a 4x2 rafter obviously on all fronts.
I cant recall when I last saw a 4x2 specced for anything else that timberframe studwork back in the 90's. But thats another thread.

Engineer will always over spec to be fair. But that doesn'mean builders will carry out his instructions in hidden closed areas

A car park is a structure believe it or not. What is your concern the nm of concrete, the 804, stone fill, the fas trained machine operator with the blade and track motors at the same ends?

[kadman]

A car park is a structure believe it or not. What is your concern the nm of concrete, the 804, stone fill, the fas trained machine operator with the blade and track motors at the same ends?

Of course, they are all concerns. At present we cant maintain a proper standard of building to regs on apartment blocks. I doubt for one second we built old carparks to any form of regs, so I doubt they would be suitable for steel roofs and canopies of any description. But like i said earlier, it doesn't matter here, because we dont check anyway.
Roll on celtic tiger round 3