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Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

Renewable energies, sustainability, recycling and everything in between
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dawg
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Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#26

Post by dawg »

You imagine all that gas is going to be used for bursts of 'leccy generation ?

:lol:
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peasant
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Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#27

Post by peasant »

No, it also goes into legacy heating systems afaik
Séimhe

Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#28

Post by Séimhe »

I feel like I'm doing all I can in my circumstances. I cook a bit more to avoid packaged meals. Avoid plastic and buy sustainably wherever possible.

So I also switch off but keep an eye out for practical things I can support. And of course, wait for the next election :/
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peasant
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Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#29

Post by peasant »

bringing this back up again

Here's a (IMO) very good video about what we can do as individuals

(and for any climate change deniers..it's supported by Bill Gates so you will have to watch it too if you want to pick holes in it :mrgreen: )

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Del.Monte
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Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#30

Post by Del.Monte »

Well that was Sybil Fawlty at her specialist subject i.e stating the bleeding obvious and another wasted 15.49 minutes of my life.
'no more blah blah blah'
CelticRambler
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Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#31

Post by CelticRambler »

peasant wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:10 pm Here's a (IMO) very good video about what we can do as individuals
It is a good presentation of the various conflicts of interest - personal, political, commercial ...

And not necessarily a waste of 15 minutes, as it seems like there are plenty of folk who need to have the bleedin' obvious spelt out for them. Unfortunately, I think they're probably not the kind who'd watch it - much easier to mindlessly retweet a "cause" than consider the full interdependent complexity of a problem. :(
Uncle Frank
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Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#32

Post by Uncle Frank »

There is far too much emphasis being put on cars and planes and such, the elephant in the room; livestock, is never mentioned, even though it produces a much greater amount of greenhouse gases.
The vast majority of the rainforests were cleared to either graze cattle or grow crops to make their feed, not to mention the amont of water it uses, or the fact that cows are filled so full of antibiotics that we are steadily becoming immune to them.

Watch Cowspiracy on Netflix to see how we are being hoodwinked.
https://www.netflix.com/ie/title/80033772
CelticRambler
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Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#33

Post by CelticRambler »

Uncle Frank wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:32 pm There is far too much emphasis being put on cars and planes and such, the elephant in the room; livestock, is never mentioned, even though it produces a much greater amount of greenhouse gases.
The vast majority of the rainforests were cleared to either graze cattle or grow crops to make their feed, not to mention the amont of water it uses, or the fact that cows are filled so full of antibiotics that we are steadily becoming immune to them.
That's just the same old nonsense of picking the worst of bad American habits and practices, and extrapolating them to include every other region's equivalent activity. Not at all helpful as far as saving the planet is concerned - especially when they're causing just as much damage with their intensive industrial production of every other foodstuff to feed their obsessive overconsumption.
Uncle Frank
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Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#34

Post by Uncle Frank »

CelticRambler wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:45 pm That's just the same old nonsense of picking the worst of bad American habits and practices, and extrapolating them to include every other region's equivalent activity. Not at all helpful as far as saving the planet is concerned - especially when they're causing just as much damage with their intensive industrial production of every other foodstuff to feed their obsessive overconsumption.
I don't follow you CR. Intensive livestock farming is not just a problem in America, it is fast becoming the norm all across the world. Just look at the massive piggeries that are popping up across Ireland for eg. Calling these huge outfits 'farms' is ludicrous.
The huge amount of effluent these places produce is another problem with run-off polluting waterways and causing dead zones in the ocean.
We need to stop burying our heads in the sand when it comes to this issue and take the bull by the horns :P

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Del.Monte
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Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#35

Post by Del.Monte »

The biggest 'elephant in the room' is the totally unsustainable population growth. Put simply, there are too many of us, especially in very poor countries. All the talk of farmers having to feed this population is more nonsense as farmers aren't a charity and grow food for profit not for philanthropic reasons.
'no more blah blah blah'
CelticRambler
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Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#36

Post by CelticRambler »

Uncle Frank wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:57 am I don't follow you CR. Intensive livestock farming is not just a problem in America, it is fast becoming the norm all across the world.
There you go - equating "intenstive livestock farming" in America with what's called "intensive" livestock farming in (for example) Europe. That completely ignores the vast difference in the regulatory regimes between the two sectors. Similarly when you refer to animals being pumped full of antibiotics, you're referring to the USAmerican regulatory regime, where there is next to no protection for the consumer, not the EUropean environment (and if you're worried about antibiotic resistance, then you should be campaigning for a complete ban on human travel to/from India, because that's where the real problem is simmering)

Have you watched the Kurzgesact video? At 6m30s in that video, they address the specific point of meat-eating. The video explains how picking out a single issue like this is counterproductive when it comes to making meaningful change. Del.Monte's "unsustainable population growth" is another unsubstantiated hobby horse - our planet is well capable of producing enough food to a population of humans of around 11-12 billion - if we bothered to control our gluttony and stopped wasting what we do produce. Oh, and stop keeping old white westerners alive, gobbling up resources, long after their expiry date - population growth at the moment - is being driven by longer lifespans, not higher birth-rates.

I wouldn't normally sully my lips/fingers quoting Boris Johnson in support of my own position, but (stopped clock syndrome, perhaps?) his words from earlier this week:
“We still cling with part of our minds to the infantile belief that the world was made for our gratification and pleasure,” explained Johnson, “and we combine this narcissism with an assumption of our own immortality. We believe that someone else will clear up the mess we make, because that is what someone else has always done. We trash our habitats again and again with the inductive reasoning that we have got away with it so far, and therefore we will get away with it again.”
(From Marina Hyde's satirical piece in the Guardian)
Uncle Frank
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Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#37

Post by Uncle Frank »

It's not just the in the US though. They are feeding antibiotics to cattle in the UK too. Rather than wait until an animal gets sick and then treat it, they just add them to the feed as a precautionary measure.

They tested some meat from supermarkets on a documentary recently and found several different types of antibiotics in it. The expert said that eating this beef over time would build up a resistance to these antibiotics in your system. Which means when you get ill and really need these medicines they won't work. Antibiotics don't break down in urine or water treatment plants either so they are getting into the waterways and oceans and spreading everywhere, they have even tested polar bears in the arctic and found traces of antibiotics!

I don't understand your view that what happens in another part of the world doesn't affect us either; if South America is pumping out billions of tonnes of greenhouse gases from factory farming why does that not affect us? That's like saying during the Iceland volcanic eruptions 'that doesn't effect us here in Ireland, not our problem' until you try to get a flight somewhere. Everything that happens on the planet has a knock-on effect.

Also, talking about EU agriculture regulations, you live in France so you would know personally that the french farmer is notorious for ignoring regulations.
CelticRambler
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Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#38

Post by CelticRambler »

Uncle Frank wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:02 am It's not just the in the US though. They are feeding antibiotics to cattle in the UK too. Rather than wait until an animal gets sick and then treat it, they just add them to the feed as a precautionary measure.

They tested some meat from supermarkets on a documentary recently and found several different types of antibiotics in it. The expert said that eating this beef over time would build up a resistance to these antibiotics in your system. Which means when you get ill and really need these medicines they won't work.
There you go again - using one single word to describe a multitude of different molecules and extrapolating the way they are regulated and supervised in one territory with the practice in another. Yes, antibiotics are used in the UK (and the EU) - but there are considerably greater controls on their use here, controls which have been made even tighter in recent years with a "black list" of molecules that must not be used in any animals - including pets - so that they remain available and effective for use in humans. Except, of course, humans are the worst abusers of antibiotics, so the "animal" controls will have limited effect.
Uncle Frank wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:02 amAntibiotics don't break down in urine or water treatment plants either so they are getting into the waterways and oceans and spreading everywhere, they have even tested polar bears in the arctic and found traces of antibiotics!
And yet again. "Antibiotics" do break down in urine, and in water treatment plants, and in all kinds of other systems ... unless, of course, they're the ones that are designed not to, so they can be used to treat urinary tract infections, in which case the humans taking them will be peeing them into the environment in the same way. If you're going to make this argument - or spread this kind of (mis)information around - you need to specify exactly which molecules you're talking about. Why fixate on antibiotics, anyway? Do you have the same concerns about female hormones excreted into waste-water treatment facilities? If human female urine plays havoc with a compost heap, imagine the damage it's doing to people drinking urban water supplies recovered from treated waste water ... :o
Uncle Frank wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:02 amI don't understand your view that what happens in another part of the world doesn't affect us either; if South America is pumping out billions of tonnes of greenhouse gases from factory farming why does that not affect us? That's like saying during the Iceland volcanic eruptions 'that doesn't effect us here in Ireland, not our problem' until you try to get a flight somewhere. Everything that happens on the planet has a knock-on effect.
I'm not saying that what happens in South American doesn't affect us; I'm saying that picking out USAmerican beef-eating habits as a scapegoat for climate change is nonsense, and trying to promote not eating beef as a viable solution for a European audience is just as much nonsense. The anti-meat brigade are responsible for a huge amount of environmental damage, encouraging industrial farmers to clear large swathes of equatorial territories so that they can grow palm oil and avocados and milk-substitutes and all kinds of supposed superfoods. Just because its easy to make a headline grabbing documentary about one aspect of all the harm the USA does to the planet doesn't make it any less important for the likes of SuperValu or Dunnes to facilitate Irish consumers' complicity in the destruction of orangutan habitats for the sake of softer skin or spreadable "butter".
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peasant
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Re: Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

#39

Post by peasant »

On the beef/ cattle issue.

You can eat meat without feeling guilty ...just make sure it's local and grass fed.
Seenashow that's a bit more expensive, you'll probably eat less of it anyway.

Good explanation here, 8 minutes in:



(Harry Metcalfe - car journalist and farmer, the slightly less flamboyant Clarkson if you will)
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