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Greta Thunberg

Renewable energies, sustainability, recycling and everything in between
GubuOriginal
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#51

Post by GubuOriginal »

Scotty wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:25 am Yes she has, but so what? Look at all the discussion she has generated, millions and millions of articles highlighting climate change, including this thread, 58,000,000 results on Google. How long have YOU spent TODAY reading and writing about her? As long as people are discussing her and her cause it's a good thing, even if they are complaining about her.

I've honestly never heard of them.
Yes discussion, talk, words...No action. Talking is easy, doing, a lot less so.

And again, you are assuming that people weren't aware of climate change before Greta came along, they were.
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isha
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#52

Post by isha »

Mountain wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:57 am We kinda sound like old people telling young people that Greta Thunberg hasn't actually inspired and mobilised them, and in fact they were inspired by Al Gore, Rachel Carson and others. I'd have to say, I don't see much of Gore on social media and I don't think we should lightly dismiss the role of that platform and Thunberg's place there. She's nearly as popular as Jacinda!
What mobilisation has happened?
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Scotty
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#53

Post by Scotty »

GubuOriginal wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:14 pm Again, a complete over blowing of her status and effectiveness...
LMAO!! Says the guy who's spent the whole morning talking about her. :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#54

Post by CelticRambler »

GubuOriginal wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:38 pm Yes discussion, talk, words...No action. Talking is easy, doing, a lot less so.
My personal experience of the younger generation is that they are doing a heck of a lot more than their parents to reverse or compensate for the ongoing damage caused by our generation; and even though they are happy to share all kinds of mad Greta memes, they do so with a degree of respect for what she's been saying.

Yes, it's always been the case that young people tend to jump on causes and express their dissatisfaction with The Establishment, and traditionally they've "grown out of it" by the time they hit middle age; but across the spectrum of young people who wander into my circle, they are making conscious, deliberate lifestyle choices that would appear to be long-term - despite the marketeers of our generation doing their level best to get them to follow in our capitalist-consumerist footsteps, financial and ecological cost be damned.
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isha
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#55

Post by isha »

Mountain wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:56 pm isn't she behind the whole school strike for climate.
And I have no idea of how effective it is.

It's not effective.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#56

Post by GubuOriginal »

Scotty wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:52 pm LMAO!! Says the guy who's spent the whole morning talking about her. :D :D :D :D :D
Clearly you've missed the point. You think she is so such a hindrence to certain governments that they'd want her dead.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#57

Post by GubuOriginal »

CelticRambler wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:02 pm My personal experience of the younger generation is that they are doing a heck of a lot more than their parents to reverse or compensate for the ongoing damage caused by our generation; and even though they are happy to share all kinds of mad Greta memes, they do so with a degree of respect for what she's been saying.

Yes, it's always been the case that young people tend to jump on causes and express their dissatisfaction with The Establishment, and traditionally they've "grown out of it" by the time they hit middle age; but across the spectrum of young people who wander into my circle, they are making conscious, deliberate lifestyle choices that would appear to be long-term - despite the marketeers of our generation doing their level best to get them to follow in our capitalist-consumerist footsteps, financial and ecological cost be damned.
Do you think it's specifically because of her though?

Also, can I ask what age range you are talking about roughly?
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Scotty
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#58

Post by Scotty »

GubuOriginal wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:25 pm You think she is so such a hindrence to certain governments that they'd want her dead.
Now you're adding 2+2 and getting 5.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#59

Post by GubuOriginal »

Scotty wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:47 pm Now you're adding 2+2 and getting 5.
Sorry, that was meant as a question, not a statement. Should've had a question mark at the end.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#60

Post by Scotty »

GubuOriginal wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:51 pm Sorry, that was meant as a question, not a statement. Should've had a question mark at the end.
No, I don't believe any government want her dead.

I think there's a couple of business (airlines, etc) that would like to see the back of her but I don't believe she's in danger.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#61

Post by schmittel »

Mountain wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:16 pm Just opened Facebook to see the Irish Times...

"► VIDEO: Climate activist Greta Thunberg, speaking at the opening session of a Youth4Climate event in Milan, Italy, has accused world leaders of "30 years of blah blah blah" in the fight against global warming"

I appreciate her critics here vary from saying this is impudence, or the opposite, that it's not enough. For me, it's welcome, I want someone high profile criticising the inaction. I think it's far better than shutting up, accepting the status quo, and telling her to mind her own carbon footprint.
Fair point that she's fighting critics on two fronts!

What action does she want to see taken? Her message that we need to take action is certainly getting through, but I don't think she is effective at conveying at what action that is.
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isha
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#62

Post by isha »

Well, duly inspired, I have been severely reducing my sense of humour and casting out hope, and increasing my daily quota of bad-tempered speeches, so I hope to be contributing to the resolution of what ails the world!


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Re: Greta Thunberg

#63

Post by schmittel »

isha wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:06 pm Well, duly inspired, I have been severely reducing my sense of humour and casting out hope, and increasing my daily quota of bad-tempered speeches, so I hope to be contributing to the resolution of what ails the world!


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You nailed this one!

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Re: Greta Thunberg

#64

Post by Del.Monte »

Mountain wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:12 pm Possibly not, I actually thought her "you have stolen my dreams" was a poor speech, kinda OTT and off putting.

But I do think, as world leaders pat themselves on the backs about their green credentials, the equivalent of the child shouting "the emperor has no clothes" is good.
It should also be remembered that she was only 16 when that speech was made - how many adults here, or in the political world anywhere, could have made such a speech at any age? From the heart rather than written by a team of overpaid spin doctors or political advisers.
'no more blah blah blah'
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#65

Post by schmittel »

Del.Monte wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:04 pm It should also be remembered that she was only 16 when that speech was made - how many adults here, or in the political world anywhere, could have made such a speech at any age? From the heart rather than written by a team of overpaid spin doctors or political advisers.
It wasn't a good speech. And fair enough we should cut her some slack because she was only 16 at the time, but we can't do that at the same as saying adult politicians could not have done any better. That doesn't make any sense.

I just listened to her blah blah blah speech. That wasn't much better. Just more blah blah blah really. A lot of empty rhetoric criticising politicians for empty rhetoric.

If she has ideas on specific climate action, (I've no idea whether she does or not), then I think she should be looking to get elected to implement them.

Sweden have a general election due within 12 months, the Greens are currently in coalition, presumably they would jump at the chance to get her on board, her profile is such that she should cruise to victory and presumably the Greens would enjoy a Greta bounce, and give her the Ministry of the Environment job.

If she did that, that would impress the hell out of me. Her current schtick of slightly passive aggressive cum patronising preachy speeches does not.

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Scotty
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#66

Post by Scotty »

On the subject of activists being murdered... there were a staggering 227 murdered around the world in 2020.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-enviro ... OhN0otoeaY
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#67

Post by Scotty »

Del.Monte wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:04 pm It should also be remembered that she was only 16 when that speech was made.
...and she has Asperger's syndrome.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#68

Post by GubuOriginal »

Scotty wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:38 pm On the subject of activists being murdered... there were a staggering 227 murdered around the world in 2020.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-enviro ... OhN0otoeaY
How many of them spoke at Davos?
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isha
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#69

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Scotty wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:42 pm ...and she has Asperger's syndrome.
This is another part of the mythos. That she has some kind of special savant powers. It's a cultural meme that has developed over the past decade or so - that the neuro divergent somehow know more than others, are more honest and perceptive, that it is an evolutionary upgrade.
It ignores that autism in its various degrees causes terrible suffering for many people who experience it. It is really tough on the parents and caregivers and it requires great efforts from the person themselves to overcome often massive anxiety, social disconnection, life-limiting sensitivities etc. Instead of casually lauding it and feeding the mythos of the special seer we should be investigating very seriously what is in the environment presently - food, pharmaceuticals, water, chemicals etc - that is causing a rise in such conditions.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#70

Post by Scotty »

isha wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:47 am This is another part of the mythos. That she has some kind of special savant powers.
Really? First I've heard of it. What special powers is she alleged to have?
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#71

Post by CelticRambler »

isha wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:47 amInstead of casually lauding it and feeding the mythos of the special seer we should be investigating very seriously what is in the environment presently - food, pharmaceuticals, water, chemicals etc - that is causing a rise in such conditions.
Well that's an easy one, and doesn't need any great investigation of red herrings: it's simply due to a greater recognition of the "in between" states on the spectrum between full-on Rainman/Mercury Rising autism and "normal". And (I would have thought you of all people, isha, would have picked up on this) the fact that up until Greta's generation, 50% of the worlds population were deemed to be incapable of having any version of autism because they were the wrong sex. It's strongly hereditary, and if you pick any autistic/Asperger's child now, you can probably go back up the family tree and identify several other individuals who are/were also on "the spectrum" but were never categorised as such.

So the statistical rise has nothing to do with "food, pharmaceuticals, water, chemicals, etc" and everything to do with medical practitioners these days ticking a box to say "ah, right, this patient has Asperger's" instead of telling their patient-parent that their child was just "a bit different".
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#72

Post by isha »

CelticRambler wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:47 am Well that's an easy one, and doesn't need any great investigation of red herrings: it's simply due to a greater recognition of the "in between" states on the spectrum between full-on Rainman/Mercury Rising autism and "normal". And (I would have thought you of all people, isha, would have picked up on this) the fact that up until Greta's generation, 50% of the worlds population were deemed to be incapable of having any version of autism because they were the wrong sex. It's strongly hereditary, and if you pick any autistic/Asperger's child now, you can probably go back up the family tree and identify several other individuals who are/were also on "the spectrum" but were never categorised as such.

So the statistical rise has nothing to do with "food, pharmaceuticals, water, chemicals, etc" and everything to do with medical practitioners these days ticking a box to say "ah, right, this patient has Asperger's" instead of telling their patient-parent that their child was just "a bit different".
That is not true. Autism has increased in occurence. The explanation that it is largely better diagnosis or broader criteria is not being accepted by many experts. Don't "you of all people me", thanks - the nuns long ago tried that line too.

And for those with the "mean spirited" accusation, we experience over- representation of severe autism in my broader family and I know the lifelong trauma it causes to all.

And for those claiming Greta's autism has not been used as a selling point of her message and role, that is incorrect. She calls it her "super power" herself and this super power is regularly referenced in media articles about her, to explain why she is more honest, perceptive and forthright, supposedly.
Zahorodny, the pediatrics professor, believes something is going on beyond better detection or evolving definitions.

"Changes in awareness and shifts in how children are identified or diagnosed are relevant, but they only take you so far in accounting for an increase of this magnitude," he said. "We don't know what is driving the surge in autism recorded by the ADDM Network and others."

He suggested that the increase in prevalence could be due to non-genetic environmental triggers or risk factors we do not yet know about, citing possibilities including parental age, prematurity, low birth rate, multiplicity, breech presentation, or C-section delivery. It may not be one, but rather several factors combined, he said.

"Increases in ASD prevalence have affected the whole population, so the triggers or risks must be very widely dispersed across all strata," he added.

There are studies that find new risk factors for ASD almost on a daily basis, said Idan Menashe, assistant professor in the Department of Health at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, the fastest growing research university in Israel.

"There are plenty of studies that find new genetic variants (and new genes)," he said. In addition, various prenatal and perinatal risk factors are associated with a risk of ASD. He cited a study his university conducted last year on the relationship between C-section births and ASD, which found that exposure to general anesthesia may explain the association.

Whatever the cause, health practitioners are seeing the consequences in real time.

"People say rates are higher because of the changes in the diagnostic criteria," said Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge, a psychologist in Ridgefield, CT. "And they say it's easier for children to get identified. I say that's not the truth and that I've been doing this for 30 years, and that even 10 years ago, I did not see the level of autism that I do see today."

Sure, we're better at detecting autism, she added, but the detection improvements have largely occurred at the low- to mid- level part of the spectrum. The higher rates of autism are occurring at the more severe end, in her experience.

Among the more controversial risk factors scientists are exploring is the role environmental toxins may play in the development of autism. Some scientists, doctors and mental health experts suspect that toxins like heavy metals, pesticides, chemicals, or pollution may interrupt the way genes are expressed or the way endocrine systems function, manifesting in symptoms of autism. But others firmly resist such claims, at least until more evidence comes forth. To date, studies have been mixed and many have been more associative than causative.

"Today, scientists are still trying to figure out whether there are other environmental changes that can explain this rise, but studies of this question didn't provide any conclusive answer," said Menashe, who also serves as the scientific director of the National Autism Research Center at BGU.


That inconclusiveness has not dissuaded some doctors from taking the perspective that toxins do play a role. "Autism rates are rising because there is a mismatch between our genes and our environment," said Julia Getzelman, a pediatrician in San Francisco. "The majority of our evolution didn't include the kinds of toxic hits we are experiencing. The planet has changed drastically in just the last 75 years –- it has become more and more polluted with tens of thousands of unregulated chemicals being used by industry that are having effects on our most vulnerable."

She cites BPA, an industrial chemical that has been used since the 1960s to make certain plastics and resins. A large body of research, she says, has shown its impact on human health and the endocrine system. BPA binds to our own hormone receptors, so it may negatively impact the thyroid and brain. A study in 2015 was the first to identify a link between BPA and some children with autism, but the relationship was associative, not causative. Meanwhile, the Food and Drug Administration maintains that BPA is safe at the current levels occurring in food, based on its ongoing review of the available scientific evidence.

Michael Mooney, President of St. Louis-based Delta Genesis, a non-profit organization that treats children struggling with neurodevelopmental delays like autism, suspects a strong role for epigenetics, which refers to changes in how genes are expressed as a result of environmental influences, lifestyle behaviors, age, or disease states.

He believes some children are genetically predisposed to the disorder, and some unknown influence or combination of influences pushes them over the edge, triggering epigenetic changes that result in symptoms of autism.0
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/leaps.org/a ... 2647618495
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#73

Post by 490808 »

isha wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:07 am That is not true. Autism has increased in occurence. The explanation that it is largely better diagnosis or broader criteria is not being accepted by many experts. Don't "you of all people me", thanks - the nuns long ago tried that line too.

And for those with the "mean spirited" accusation, we experience over- representation of severe autism in my broader family and I know the lifelong trauma it causes to all.

And for those claiming Greta's autism has not been used as a selling point of her message and role, that is incorrect. She calls it her "super power" herself and this super power is regularly referenced in media articles about her, to explain why she is more honest, perceptive and forthright, supposedly.



https://www.google.ie/amp/s/leaps.org/a ... 2647618495
Bollocks. My son has Aspergers and is the only actual diagnosis in the family however, I, my father and grandfather have/had exactly the same symptoms. 50 years ago the only diagnosis I got was for dyslexia.

For years in Ireland the one thing you weren't allowed to do, or want to be, is to be different, so parents tried to cover up and ignore functioning Autism because they didn't want to give their child a label.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#74

Post by isha »

The Continental Op wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:20 am Bollocks. My son has Aspergers and is the only actual diagnosis in the family however, I, my father and grandfather have/had exactly the same symptoms. 50 years ago the only diagnosis I got was for dyslexia.

For years in Ireland the one thing you weren't allowed to do, or want to be, is to be different, so parents tried to cover up and ignore functioning Autism because they didn't want to give their child a label.
You did not read the article then where experts are diagnosing their patients in greater numbers in even recent years.

I have no problem with people being autistic. Or with knowing autism has been around forever. Some of my very best nephews and family members are autistic. But some of them are so severely affected they will never lead independent lives. It is not a super power. My point is it needs to be seriously investigated as to why there is DEFINITELY an increase in the condition.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

#75

Post by isha »

Mountain wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:27 am One person here mentioned her condition. He did so very obviously not in the context you claim, that we see Asberger's as a superpower. The only contribution that mentioned it clearly did not do that. I said it was dishonest and unfair to characterise it as you did. I cannot speak for your experiences outside this forum, merely your response to a post within it.
Clearly Scotty referencing Greta's speech giving talents as being particularly noteworthy given her aspergers brought to mind (for me) a very large aspect of the media driven mythos about Greta and autism. Which is and has been that her condition is a super power, as she describes it, and as has been platformed by the media then as a superpower.
Asperger's syndrome, which is Greta's autism spectrum diagnosis, is frequently accompanied by other disorders. In her case, obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is relevant, which likely contributes to her intense and unrelenting focus on speaking truth to power in urging action on climate change. Inspiring what has become a worldwide movement no doubt requires a degree of "thinking outside the box," a common attribute among folks with Aspie (a more feel-good way of saying Asperger's) profiles. The decision to cross the Atlantic Ocean in a solar-powered yacht on her way to the United Nations Climate Action Summit is but one example of such thinking.

Repetitive behaviors that are limited in scope, another prevalent trait among those on the autism spectrum, would probably be construed by most as a problem that needs to be fixed. Then again, maybe not, depending on your perspective. Greta uses this aspect of her Aspie profile to her advantage
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.co ... back%3famp
In some cases, she said, her neurodiversity gives her an advantage. It "makes you different and makes you think differently," she said. "Especially in a big crisis like this one, we need to think outside the box, we need to think outside our current system, we need people who think outside the box and who aren't like everyone else."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnew ... aspergers/

Aspergers gives Greta no special knowledge about the deeply complex technological, social and political challenges of global environmental degradation , in my opinion. Zero advantage. As one poster mentioned earlier the chap who invented the machine that collects plastic in the ocean has done far more at a real level. Also my brother, a chap with Aspergers, turned his brain to quietly inventing a product which sequesters significant carbon dioxide - I think he has done more than Greta Thunberg for the world. There are many more like them quietly plugging away and making concrete differences.
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