Field / Garden finds

[kadman]

Interesting to think of all these wonderful historical items in our gardens, but its illegal to search for archaeological items there, with a metal detector.

Last time I mentioned metal detector over yonder, the thread was closed, as were numerous other metal detecting threads.

[Osciiboscii]

Interesting to think of all these wonderful historical items in our gardens, but its illegal to search for archaeological items there, with a metal detector.

Last time I mentioned metal detector over yonder, the thread was closed, as were numerous other metal detecting threads.

No way?

[Del.Monte]

I think metal detecting is okay except on national monuments etc. but the only people who make much out of metal detecting are the people selling the gear. I had one for a while for beachcombing but never found much except ring-pulls.

[Del.Monte]

https://www.museum.ie/en-IE/Collections ... in-Ireland

Vague old guff, I'd like to see anyone prove you were using a metal detector for archaeological stuff as opposed to coins or whatever.

[kadman]

https://www.museum.ie/en-IE/Collections ... in-Ireland

Acts, it is against the law:

to be in possession of a detection device in, or at, a site protected under the National Monuments Acts. This includes:–
a monument subject to a Preservation Order
a monument in the ownership or guardianship of the Minister or a local authority
a monument entered in the Register of Historic Monuments
a monument included in the Record of Monuments and Places
the area around a wreck subject to an underwater heritage order

to use a detection device for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects anywhere within the State or its territorial seas

[kadman]

The mods over yonder had a field day with me on numerous occasions over this topic.
But I kept posting until it was closed which i knew it would be

[kadman]

https://www.museum.ie/en-IE/Collections ... in-Ireland

Vague old guff, I'd like to see anyone prove you were using a metal detector for archaeological stuff as opposed to coins or whatever.

If you say you were out searching for coins, then you will be ........guilty ma lud.

[kadman]

I remember the the report German tourist who was caught decades ago, trying to get on a return flight to Germany, after his holiday here.
He had a headstone from Clonmacnoise in his case. They took the artifact from him, and let him travel as far as I recall.

[kadman]

He wanted a souvenir to remember his holiday by

[765489]

The laws on metal detecting in Ireland are draconian. There should be a better way to deal with gold diggers and users who try to search on areas classed as an archaeological site.

Typical hit a nail with a sledgehammer approach which is the lazy way of not dealing adequately with an issue.

OK to not allow a club search a field for coins as they are classed as archaeological artifacts yet there's no bother putting a housing estate or road on the same field where nothing will be learned about what lays beneath.

[765489]

An example of a more sensible approach would be this - https://www.york.gov.uk/MetalDetectors

[765489]

When myself and father used to go detecting on our own land it was for the interest and history of what we would find. Anything we couldn't determine would be brought into the national museum, including that St Partricks metal and the large unidentified coin I posted there. They took a look at them and gave them back to us.

They have shut down a valuable way of discovery of artefacts. Amateurs not wanted.

Rant over, used to really enjoy this as a hobby.

[kadman]

The way the law stands now, I am within 1 km of 3 designated heritage areas. 3 red circles drawn on a map.
Nothing but 3 empty fields. And if I have a metal detector in my house, I could be breaking the law.

[kadman]

Keep enjoying it bud. You are searching your own land for a lost bunch of keys

https://irishmetaldetecting.freeforums.net/

[kadman]

When I am out with mine, I am getting exercise after my heart attack.

[765489]

The way the law stands now, I am within 1 km of 3 designated heritage areas. 3 red circles drawn on a map.
Nothing but 3 empty fields. And if I have a metal detector in my house, I could be breaking the law.

Same here. One of the fields was been rotovated and drilled this evening. The man that owns the field came across two lads one morning scanning the spot thats shown on the monuments map. They said they were looking for meteorites. Landowner ran them.

[765489]

When I am out with mine, I am getting exercise after my heart attack.

Good man Kadman.

[765489]

The last time I was detecting earlier in the year was for my neighbours 6 foot crowbar that was lost along a bank in one of his fields. Had to spend a few days there to be thorough. Good crowbars are a hard thing to replace.

[kadman]

Same here. One of the fields was been rotovated and drilled this evening. The man that owns the field came across two lads one morning scanning the spot thats shown on the monuments map. They said they were looking for meteorites. Landowner ran them.

I know lads that look for meteorites, it would be a better find than the lotto. I personally dont see a problem searching a rotovated field with the owners permission, if its not in a designated area.

Its the guys that search everywhere indiscriminately that give the hobby a bad reputation. They need to get the full rigors of the law. As with all hobbys being responsible about them is the thing.

[Wibbs]

The laws on metal detecting in Ireland are draconian. There should be a better way to deal with gold diggers and users who try to search on areas classed as an archaeological site.

Typical hit a nail with a sledgehammer approach which is the lazy way of not dealing adequately with an issue.

This mostly came about after the discovery of the Derrynaflan hoard back in the early 80's. Using metal detectors they'd found one of the most important finds in years. They had taken their finds to the authorities who then did a proper excavation, finding bits that the original finders hadn't, but some proper context was lost because the original finders just dug the stuff out. Then there was an unseemly grab for cash by the finders and the farmer whose land it was on. It didn't help that we were stony broke as a country at the time. So to head off further similar nonsense the government restricted amateur digging in law, then doubled down on that in the 90's.

I can see both sides of it. Amateur archaeologists pretty much started and developed the science(as it the case with most sciences. Astronomy is one of the very few today where they're still very much in play) and if you were to remove all artefacts that were found by amateurs from our museums you'd have a significantly reduced display and science. I collected fossils as a kid and loved it, but even that is illegal, or quasi legal now(the books I read as a kid constantly pushed the recording context angle). Archaeology is also very underfunded in Ireland and we're likely losing out because they're spread so thin.

On the other hand amateur archaeologists tend to be more "treasure" hunters and as such miss and can screw up the very important context and don't have the training to do it right. Money comes into it too and when it does things can go south. With draconian laws the risks of important stuff going missing and sold overseas is heightened. I've seen stuff on ebay in the past that was almost certainly Irish, but sold in the UK "from an old collection". That covers a lot of bases. They tend to be drawn to the "pretty" stuff as well which can paint an incomplete picture of the past. We see this in areas like tools of the stone age. Amateur collections from the 19th century on are heavliy biased towards the impressive pieces like handaxes, the more pretty the better and out of context, which gave the impression that these were the norm among such tools. Later professional excavations have shown this not to be the case and paint a far more complete picture.

If it were up to me, I'd actually leave much of the draconian law in place. However, I would also set up a system whereby people with a genuine interest could pay for proper training and if they passed that get a licence to search.

[isha]

And another thing is if there are good finds on proper digs they have to be kept secret until the end to avoid an onslaught of treasure hunters with detectors descending in the night time and trashing the place.

[765489]

This mostly came about after the discovery of the Derrynaflan hoard back in the early 80's. Using metal detectors they'd found one of the most important finds in years. They had taken their finds to the authorities who then did a proper excavation, finding bits that the original finders hadn't, but some proper context was lost because the original finders just dug the stuff out. Then there was an unseemly grab for cash by the finders and the farmer whose land it was on. It didn't help that we were stony broke as a country at the time. So to head off further similar nonsense the government restricted amateur digging in law, then doubled down on that in the 90's.

I can see both sides of it. Amateur archaeologists pretty much started and developed the science(as it the case with most sciences. Astronomy is one of the very few today where they're still very much in play) and if you were to remove all artefacts that were found by amateurs from our museums you'd have a significantly reduced display and science. I collected fossils as a kid and loved it, but even that is illegal, or quasi legal now(the books I read as a kid constantly pushed the recording context angle). Archaeology is also very underfunded in Ireland and we're likely losing out because they're spread so thin.

On the other hand amateur archaeologists tend to be more "treasure" hunters and as such miss and can screw up the very important context and don't have the training to do it right. Money comes into it too and when it does things can go south. With draconian laws the risks of important stuff going missing and sold overseas is heightened. I've seen stuff on ebay in the past that was almost certainly Irish, but sold in the UK "from an old collection". That covers a lot of bases. They tend to be drawn to the "pretty" stuff as well which can paint an incomplete picture of the past. We see this in areas like tools of the stone age. Amateur collections from the 19th century on are heavliy biased towards the impressive pieces like handaxes, the more pretty the better and out of context, which gave the impression that these were the norm among such tools. Later professional excavations have shown this not to be the case and paint a far more complete picture.

If it were up to me, I'd actually leave much of the draconian law in place. However, I would also set up a system whereby people with a genuine interest could pay for proper training and if they passed that get a licence to search.

I've no problem with the training and paying for a licence. The problem is they won't entertain it. They could set it up similar to applying for an air rifle for instance.

[kadman]

They wont entertain even meeting various concerned people, let alone discuss it.

[Wibbs]

I've no problem with the training and paying for a licence. The problem is they won't entertain it. They could set it up similar to applying for an air rifle for instance.

Oh I agree. It's a case of a status quo that's dug in deep and they don't want to entertain any change. I strongly suspect a goodly chunk of our heritage has gone under the radar and been sold overseas because of these laws. There was a fossil site in Waterford IIRC, very important and very early examples of primitive life. PreCambrian IIRC. A few years ago one day it was gone. Someone, or more likely several someones had come in with heavy machinery and expertly dug it out of the living rock. No doubt now residing in some rich guy's collection. Even with far more freedom and regulation in the UK, lots of their heritage ends up for sale without seeing an expert along the way. Now most of it is broken Roman bronze odds and sods and the like, but some of it isn't.

As for stuff found in gardens...



Viking/Norman strap end. Probably off some horse tack, bridle etc.

[765489]

20220424_211944.jpg

Walking about in a field of drills today and found this little piece of an ointment pot. I decided to put it my pocket and find out who was Dr Roberts from Bridport. If I ever see anything with writing on it and it looks old I always end up putting it in pocket for later investigation.

Anyway it is a part of an ointment pot of a cream called "Poor Man's Friend" The ingredients, which were discovered by a pharmacist who bought Dr Robert's old shop in the 1970s. The pharmacist found an envelope marked "private" and in it the ingredients were stated as the following - "The 'Poor Man's Friend' ointment consists mainly of lard and fine English beeswax, plus calamel, sugar of lead, salts of mercury, oxide of zinc, oxide of bismuth, venetian red, oils of rose, bergamot and lavender. I take it the "sugar of lead" and "salts of mercury" are toxic ?

Not sure of the dates but the piece I have was pre 1903 from the style and colour of lettering.

Taken from the link below about the man himself

"Giles Roberts was born in the Ship Inn at Bridport Harbour in April 1766. He was the son of Richard Roberts, a pensioned seaman, harbour pilot and inn keeper. The late Elizabeth Wild researched his life and gave Bridport History Society these details: Giles had an early interest in medicine and at about 13 years began to prepare ointments. His parents did not encourage this. On leaving school he was apprenticed to a draper in Exeter, a grocer in Bridport and a tinsman and brazier in Shepton Mallett. Giles soon tired of these trades and returned home to repair clocks and watches. For a time he lived with gypsies and learned taxidermy and the use of medicinal herbs. In 1788 he set up in Bridport selling “pure and cheap medicines”, gaining much of his knowledge from Culpepper’s “English Physician”. He offered taxidermy, surgery and dentistry to his patients. He was sufficiently successful to go to London and study at Guys and St. Thomas’s Hospitals. In 1795 he was licensed to act as an apothecary, surgery and physician. Two years later the University of Aberdeen awarded him an Hon.M.D."

http://www.marshwoodvale.com/history-co ... ns-friend/

Anyway, I now know what the "Poor Man's Friend" was.