The (fog) lights thread

[peasant]

..just because they're banned on boards

Nahh ...but here's a strange story.

My car has LED lights, little projector ones, nothing fancy or matrix or whatever.
They're brilliant, quite literally, wouldn't want to go back to Xenon or Halogen.

Even though they're brilliant (as in bright white), no oncoming traffic has ever complained at me, so they must be ok and not blind people.

But today was different. Because of the aftermath of the storm with lots of debris and flooding on the narrow and dark country roads I use, I also had the fog lights on. Not because it was foggy, but because they help with seeing the edges of the road better, giving me at least a chance of avoiding the worst of it. (everybody else was driving with their fogs on too, btw)

But Suzuki cheaped out on the fogs ...no LEDs there, just boring old Halogens ...which of course are of a lot "warmer", more yellow light.

So, looking at the front of my car with the fogs on, you see two rather dim lights down below and two very white lights on top (still dipped, mind).

Every second or third oncoming car saw the need to flash me to remind me to dip my lights. Later, on a better stretch, turned the fogs off and the complaining stopped immediately.

So, obviously, bright LED lights are only too bright in comparison with Halogens ...they're fine on their own

[isha]

Hmmm. I did not know heretofore about these new fangled lights. All I know is that every bollix who half blinds me with their too bright lights coming towards me is a lucky fecker that they cannot hear the filthy abuse and curses I am giving them from my car.

[kadman]

Its not the lights, its the legality of having fog lamps on , and no fog.

https://www.theaa.ie/blog/the-correct-w ... ar-lights/

It's an offence to use fog lights in clear conditions as they can dazzle other drivers. The RSA states that you should only use fog lights if your visibility is less than 100 metres – i.e. you can't see approx. 25 car lengths ahead of you. Fog lights are best used with dipped headlights

[peasant]

Its not the lights, its the legality of having fog lamps on , and no fog.

your boards is showing kadman ...breathe ...relax ...

[490808]

I just put incorrect use of fog lights down to ignorance and stupidity.

I'm quite sure that many of the people that drive around with them on don't realise they are on.

[kadman]

your boards is showing kadman ...breathe ...relax ...

You are f*****ing blinding me with them lights.

On another note, I remember one time coming home from Dublin to the midlands, and my boss was driving the van. We were behind a car in good visibility, but the car in front had his fog lamps on. It drove my boss demented with rage that he had his lamps on un necessarily, so he kept flashing his head lamps at him from the toll to Kinnegad.

Coming into Kinnegad the car in front stopped, and my boss " now I'm gonna sort him"
The drivers door opened, followed by the passenger, and then followed by the rear passenger . Three of the biggest lads I've ever seen headed back towards us. Now we are in trouble my boss said. " Who the feck is we I said, you are the bollox flashing the lights".

DRiver says to my boss " whats your fecking game pal" My boss says" you got your fogs on, and its blinding me"

Driver says" Listen bud, if you flash your lights once more, them fog lights wont be the only lights you will see, you bollox", and turned around and headed back to his car. My boss cowered all the way home, and i burst me arse laughing

[peasant]

You do know that there are two separate switches / positions on the one switch for front and rear foglights?

Putting on the one, you can still leave off the other.

In my nearly 40 years of driving I can count the times the use of rear foglights was warranted on the fingers of one hand.

The fronts I have needed to use a bit more often, but they definitely aren't regular "driving" lights .

[490808]

I thought the rear ones were there to put on when someone is driving behind your with full beam

[Hairy-Joe]

People don't realise having front fog lights on when the roads are wet is the main cause of the dazzle. The lights are low and designed to spread light just in front of the car. The result is the lights shining on the road and bouncing back up on the wet road, hence the dazzle.

Also the front fog lights only light up immediately Infront of the car. Normal dip lights throw the light much further.

I can't recall having to put the rear fogs on (besides heavy rain on continental motorways where they are mandatory). I also can't recall having to need the front fogs on besides the odd foggy night up mountain roads

[490808]

Used to use rear fog lamps a lot driving on motorways in the north of England, M62 for example.

Ireland like others have said not much.

[CelticRambler]

I can't recall having to put the rear fogs on (besides heavy rain on continental motorways where they are mandatory). I also can't recall having to need the front fogs on besides the odd foggy night up mountain roads

As a winter continental driver, I use rear fogs very regularly (in fits and starts). Don't currently have functional front fogs on either vehicle, but for my own safety I use the rear fogs in fog, heavy rain and snowstorms, arising from too many experiences of coming up on slower-moving vehicles in such weather where they have only their basic rear lights lit, and you can't see the vehicle until you're about 50m away.

[490808]

I'm not on the road as much as I used to be (although just done a thousand miles near enough in the UK) and was wondering if there is less fog nowadays because of global warming?

I can remember when switching fog lamps on and off was a regular part of driving but in the last ten years I've hardly used them.

There is also the thought that car headlamps and rear lights are much better than they used to be so there might be less need to use fog lamps.

[Seanybiker]

Them there lights can be a right pain in the sack when youre on a motorbike, its like they where fitted to blind me. I'd imagine theyre well fecking handy for ye alright though.

[490808]

Them there lights can be a right pain in the sack when youre on a motorbike, its like they where fitted to blind me. I'd imagine theyre well fecking handy for ye alright though.

But does anyone check the headlamp alingment on motorbikes? Many bikes have blinded me from behind in the dark with their headlamps, they actually seem worse than cars.

I can appreciate the exposure of anyone driving a bike and I make every effort to facilitate them but a bike with a strong headlamp on you bumper is a pain in the hole.

[Seanybiker]

But does anyone check the headlamp alingment on motorbikes? Many bikes have blinded me from behind in the dark with their headlamps, they actually seem worse than cars.

I can appreciate the exposure of anyone driving a bike and I make every effort to facilitate them but a bike with a strong headlamp on you bumper is a pain in the hole.

Theres no test at all for motorbikes. One of the lads is after bolting on a few of them LED lights on his bike and I can see everyone being pissed off with him over it because he went overboard. If I drove a car I'd be tempted to swerve into him at traffic lights haha. Its very dangeours and on a bike we can see around us a lot better than people in cars being lower with blind spots. Jaysus I'd go mental if I ever get a car license again

[Wibbs]

I've never quite understood the need for rear foglights myself. I've driven in a few peasoupers in my time with visibilty at a few car lengths kinda thing and ordinary rear lights were still very visible. Doubly so at night. If they had them on. There was this time with a lightless muppet on a Mayo mountain road...

My car's a Japanese import and rear fog lights didn't seeem to be a thing for their market so it doesn't have them. In the rest of the world the Euro version got fogs alright, but the North American market didn't. So it does seem to be a regional thing. I've wondered if rear fog lights were invented as a thing in Europe and seemed to be a good idea and stuck because of that, rather than because of actual utility?

The Japanese market version did get front fog/driving lights in yellow and I have found them to be very good in foggy conditions, far less dazzling to me and oncoming traffic compared to full beams, even main beams in fog. My mains are xenon jobs, but the early type, a little more blue and are really good at night, plus my yoke is lower to the ground than most modern cars so dazzle is less an issue for others, but that also means dazzle from others can be an issue for me. To the rear I'm OK as the dirty great spoiler on the back is in the perfect position to block out those 4X4's with WW2 searchlights for mains.

I'd reckon what the Continental OP said about lights being overall better these days is a fair bit of it. My first car was a Capri and the lights were barely better than holding a lit Zippo lighter out the window. Full beams were more like mains today. Years back an uncle of mine had an E-Type Jaaaag and the lights on that barely deserved the name. Scarily dim. Then again few cars were capable of the speeds of modern cars(though that E-Type impressed with its shove in the midrange. When new it would have been a rocketship compared to the majority of cars on the road.).



A few years back before prices went nuts for such things I did get a Euro rear fog light assembly for mine with a view to fitting on my car and probably will, but that's more for show as I already installed various non Japanese other market bits onto it.

[490808]

Following on from quality of lights positioning has also improved. The high up additional central brake light can make you far more aware of the car in front. I'm quite sure that on some SUV's that light at the top of the rear window is as bright or brighter than any rear fog lamp, so bright it dazzles you if you get too close. A real pain if you are stuck behind them at night in slow moving traffic.

[Hairy-Joe]

No wonder that fitting spotlights was so popular years ago with the crap lights. Nothing really beats Hella 3000 for lights, followed by a Lucas 20-20s. I'm lucky to have a pair of both in the garage but with canbus wiring, LED headlights etc wiring them in now can be a problem.

[Wibbs]

No wonder that fitting spotlights was so popular years ago with the crap lights. Nothing really beats Hella 3000 for lights, followed by a Lucas 20-20s.

I'd say a fair bit of that was a fashion thing too because of the popularity of rallying where the cars sported more lights than a feckin christmas tree.



Though cars like Renault 5 Turbo integrated them very nicely IMHO.



Switch them on and you'd burn out retinas a mile away. I remember seeing a lad with an Opel Manta that was more headlights than car. Dead cool looking mind you.

I'm lucky to have a pair of both in the garage but with canbus wiring, LED headlights etc wiring them in now can be a problem.

Yeah canbus makes fecking about with adding stuff a real pain in the arse alright. If it didn't come as an option good luck and even then they can have different wiring looms between models.

The high up additional central brake light can make you far more aware of the car in front. I'm quite sure that on some SUV's that light at the top of the rear window is as bright or brighter than any rear fog lamp, so bright it dazzles you if you get too close. A real pain if you are stuck behind them at night in slow moving traffic.

The high up third brake light made a huge difference to safety and visibility. IIRC the first car to have high brake lights as a deliberate feature was the 1950s Citreon DS, or was that indicators? That car had more innovations than any before or since.

[CelticRambler]

I've never quite understood the need for rear foglights myself. I've driven in a few peasoupers in my time with visibilty at a few car lengths kinda thing and ordinary rear lights were still very visible. Doubly so at night. If they had them on. There was this time with a lightless muppet on a Mayo mountain road...

... So it does seem to be a regional thing. I've wondered if rear fog lights were invented as a thing in Europe and seemed to be a good idea and stuck because of that, rather than because of actual utility?

They are most definitely useful in the kind of continental fog I drive in. A high level brake light is no good if the person driving doesn't use their brakes for twenty or thirty minutes at a time, and "a few car lengths" would equate to about 25 metres - which would be about the point where I'd breathe a sigh of relief that visibility had finally improved and I had a reasonable chance of seeing the eejits using only their 2021 rear lights.

My most recent use of rear fogs was three weeks ago, in the Jura. Visibility was reduced to less than the distance to the next hairpin bend, so the extra glare from the fogs ahead (front and rear) was a useful warning of (a) the direction of the bend, and (b) the presence of another vehicle. I still missed my turn, though - GPS woman said it was "now" but I couldn't see it till I was 5m away.

On a trip up north a few years ago, daytime visibility was so bad around Lille (hey, it's daytime, why would you bother putting your lights on?) I pulled off to wait it out in a lay-by. Parked up, I couldn't see any of the vehicles on the motorway, less than 10m to the side. I could hear them, though - tearing along at unimaginable speed. Needless to say, there were multiple pile-ups reported on later news bulletins.

[Wibbs]

Right so CR, you've convinced me! In case you're ever behind me in a fog wishing me bodily harm involving a pliers and my manparts I shall break out the hammers and spanners as soon as and jam this in.








It's going to be a bit of a mare to do mind you. Have to cut the exact shape into the bumper in the exact place. I had hoped to source a UK bumper, but they've gone daft money now. Wiring should be easy as I got the full loom extension with it. Though it's a 90's car you can tell they got that as an afterthought from the 80's parts bin. Exposed screws on the outside.

[CelticRambler]

If I can ever get past the phase of essential test-passing maintenance and modifications, I plan to entirely re-make the camper's rear bumper, to include six-bulb light clusters on both sides. At the moment, I have the standard single reversing-or-fog arrangement, which annoys me no end. Don't like seeing unbalanced light in my rear view mirrors.

[Wibbs]

If I can ever get past the phase of essential test-passing maintenance and modifications, I plan to entirely re-make the camper's rear bumper, to include six-bulb light clusters on both sides. At the moment, I have the standard single reversing-or-fog arrangement, which annoys me no end. Don't like seeing unbalanced light in my rear view mirrors.

As I understand it C and I've likely got this wrong to be fair, aren't rear fog lights meant to be single and on the drivers side to indicate the position in the road ahead to anyone coming up behind? TBH I hadn't even thought about it until I went looking for reference pics to fit mine and noticed the placement was different for RHD/LHD.

RHD


LHD


I then noticed similar with other car models. Though even here there doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rule in place that I can see. Some have two, some have one. No doubt there's an EU regulation buried somewhere. The British reg is centreline or offside(drivers) of the car.

[CelticRambler]

As I understand it C and I've likely got this wrong to be fair, aren't rear fog lights meant to be single and on the drivers side to indicate the position in the road ahead to anyone coming up behind?

That logic may well apply, perhaps even on the back of an EU directive ... but I was working on the presumption that a 6-light cluster with a CE mark, being sold in Europe by an EU seller was good and legal.

My driving instructor told me never to deduce anything about the vehicle in ahead (or behind) from its visible lights, and given the number of one-eyed monsters on the roads in France, it was good advice.

[CelticRambler]

Had justification for using the fog lamps again yesterday, more intermittently than on previous recent journeys, but still necessary (in my opinion). Further to The Continental Op's comment in post #12 above, I don't remember ever having had such persistent fog during my continental travels since I moved here 18 years ago - yesterday's "fog bank" was almost 700km long, and these conditions have persisted now for a whole month (except for the day I decided to take the train ... )

Anyway, with this thread in mind, I was looking at the vehicles ahead, both oncoming and same-direction, comparing and contrasting the difference between those with and without fogs, and/or DLR. The fogs and the DLR were, for the most part, equivalent and very definitely made on-coming vehicles more visible. At one point, in a convoy of several vehicles, each separated by about two car-lengths (way too close for the conditions, but that's the French for you ... ) there was a distinct "hole" in the convoy where the fourth vehicle wasn't using fogs.

In a separate exercise, coming up on a creamery tanker, I asked my co-pilot to estimate the distance to the vehicle ahead. "What vehicle?" - "Those two red lights in front" - "What lights ...? ... oh, those ..." We both judged the separation to be about 50-60m, and it was a struggle to see the tanker at that distance, even though he was using (two) foglights. If he hadn't had the fogs lit, I doubt we'd have seen his dirty white rear-end until we were only 25-30m away - very tight, considering I was probably doing 10km/h more than he was.