Welcome to GUBU.ie - if you're new here check out Housekeeping for more info. Any queries contact us.

Off-grid motorhome upgrade

Four wheels good
Post Reply
CelticRambler
Verified Username
Posts: 2586
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:19 pm
Location: Central France

Off-grid motorhome upgrade

#1

Post by CelticRambler »

Back in the summer, I made reference to an upgrade of my motorhome fridge and associated power supply. Well, just in time for my next long excursion, the project is completed (kinda - pending a couple of additional enhancements to be done "in due course")

For those who might be interested, here's a quick description of the project from start to finish.

The original plan was simple enough: replace the original "three-way" motorhome special fridge (no longer functioning reliably) with a regular domestic "mains electric" fridge. First, find the right fridge. It had to fit in the space available (obviously :roll: ) but also match the existing interior design, and come at a sensible price. I got lucky, very lucky, with the upgraded version of a Hisense model I'd picked out last year, which was identical in size, to within half a centimetre in every dimension, and came in a brushed steel finish that matches the cooker, the cabinet handles and various other trimmings.

So I've gone from that:
Image

to this:
Image

The empty space contained two particularly useful features at the back - an existing 230V supply, coming from an electric hook-up via the main control panel; and a vent in the floor
Image

Not at all coincidentally, that vent has exactly the same diameter as the hole into which a rather useless extractor fan over the cooker fits, so the extractor fan found itself re-located.
Image

It's purpose there is to help keep the fridge working properly during hot weather. It'll suck cooler outside air from underneath the vehicle (usually parked on grass at those times of the year) and force it across the compressor. That's still a bit of a work in progress, as the fan is about as feeble in this role as it was when supposed to be venting cooking vapours :roll: but it'll do for now.

The next challenge was to provide the "off grid" power - easy enough with a massive 200Ah LiFePO4 battery and a 2000W/4000peak DC-AC converter. As long as they didn't take up all the floor space. The solution was to build a "secret compartment" at the back of a press under the main wardrobe, that's never been of much use because it's too low and too deep. Now it has a worthy purpose in life: I installed a partition in the lower unit, cut the floor of the wardrobe in two, installed a tray in the hidden recess and strapped the battery down, out of sight and (mostly) out of mind.
ImageImageImage

The inverter (inverted! :) ) is fixed to the face of the partition, keeping the cable length between itself and the battery to just 50cm to minimise voltage drop.

Image


Then came the hard part: reconfiguring the electrical installation in such as way as to provide "real" mains power to the fridge when a hook-up is available, aswell as charging the battery; to provide "off-grid" mains power when not hooked up; and (preferably) to not have to think about switching between the two. And then, because why do things the easy way if you can make things more complicated, I decided that it would be even more useful if I could also use my electric kettle and microwave while way out the back of beyond, or up some lonely mountain, or even just parked outside a supermarket.

Cue much neck and brain ache trying to decrypt the factory installed wiring scheme to identify which cable went where, all of their junction blocks being at the limits of my reach inside and at the top of the wardrobe, but in the end, I was able to separate and remove four circuits from the original mains supply and re-route them to a shiny new consumer unit, tucked away at the back of the wardrobe, along with the solar panel's charge controller and a thermostat to manage the fridge ventilation. All the trunking, sockets, cables and junction boxes came from the "might come in useful" stash (couldn't believe my luck when I found 6mm² black and red stranded copper cable hidden inside some heavy duty "twin-and-earth" I've had for about twenty five years :lol: )
Image

It's sooooo pretty when it's all lit up 8-) ... which is one reason it's all hidden away. AliExpress provided me with an automatic transfer switch (ATS) at a good price, and a surge protector/real-time load display; the local hardware provided the empty box and three trip switches. There's one for the fridge, one for the microwave, and one that protects both the (single) kitchen socket and an outdoor socket, which I've never used ... until this week. There's also a spare socket on the inverter from where I can draw power without going through the consumer unit.

Image

The ATS is wired to assume that a mains hook-up is the default state, so it'll always switch "back" to that if one becomes available; but as soon as I unplug from the mains, it'll take 230V from the inverter which can be left permanently switched on while I'm away from home.

Out of sight behind the fridge (but accessible through the big side vent) is an additional socket that is only connected to the "real" mains, into which is plugged the battery's own charger. This is the one point that still needs to be addressed, as the cheapy charge controller supplied with the panels doesn't kick in until the LiFePO4 voltage drops to about 30%, and I no longer have any way to charge the batteries from the vehicle's alternator. There are expensive black boxes available to deal with both of these situations, but I'm going to see how the system copes under different real-world conditions before I commit to one or the other.

In the meantime, all that was left was to securely fit the source of all power: the panels on the roof. Now four, because I managed to damage the first two that I bought. Their performance is significantly degraded (maybe a little better since I attempted repairs last week) but I've installed them behind the two new ones to add rigidity to the support frame, though they're not actually connected up as I don't have the necessary adapators.

Image

In good order, two panels give me a confirmed output of 12A in bright light, and they're not too fussy about orientation; on cloudy days, less or a lot less. The fridge draws about 0.5A for about 20 minutes out of every hour, so theoretically even the two damaged panels should be able to supply enough to run it during the day. In practice, with no top-up, the battery alone can keep the fridge running for four days in hot/very warm weather, which I think is "satisfactory" although it'd be less so if I found myself under gloomy grey skies for a week and without the possibility of charging via the alternator.

Then again, on my last long trip, I got a 100km more than usual out of a full tank of diesel - have I spent the last seventeen years spending a fortune on a diesel-powered fridge? :shock:
Hairy-Joe
Posts: 1567
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:33 pm

Re: Off-grid motorhome upgrade

#2

Post by Hairy-Joe »

As someone who suffered from a not so cold 3-way fridge in very hot weather (33C plus), I'm very interested in this. Ive fans fitted to try to improve things (not really improving things).

However, I'm convinced some manufacturers can't fit fridges properly. I've had come across plenty Burstners that have poor fridges (mine included) yet the Laika I had was a fantastic fridge fitting. The Laika had the same model fridge as my Burstner so I know it's not the fridge design.......
kadman
Verified Username
Posts: 2764
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:14 pm

Re: Off-grid motorhome upgrade

#3

Post by kadman »

For fridges to work well in a camper, proper ventilation for the unit is a must.
CelticRambler
Verified Username
Posts: 2586
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:19 pm
Location: Central France

Re: Off-grid motorhome upgrade

#4

Post by CelticRambler »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:34 amHowever, I'm convinced some manufacturers can't fit fridges properly. I've had come across plenty Burstners that have poor fridges (mine included) yet the Laika I had was a fantastic fridge fitting. The Laika had the same model fridge as my Burstner so I know it's not the fridge design.......
I'd agree with this! Espcially since I blocked up the two big side-wall vents at the back. The immediate difference to the internal comfort and temperature of the living space was astonishing, with an equally immediate resolution of an ankle cutting draught that has plagued us since the day we bought the vehicle. It's obvious now that the fridge was never properly seated against the "all round" seal supposed to separate it from the vented space at the back, and there's been a constant influx of cold air (in cold weather ;) ) around the appliance.

To give an idea of the change, I've previously driven with the living-space thermostat set to 4 on scale of 0-5 so that at least the ankle draught was warmish; and at the end of a few hours' drive, the temperature in living space would be "grand". On the last excursion - the first with the vents closed up completely - the temperature was insufferably hot when I stopped for the first night; and I was able to achieve the regular "grand" with the thermostat turned down to 2.5 (just high enough to get it to circulate the fluid through the heat-pump).

Seeing as there's no longer any gas involved, there are no safety implications from blocking the vents; but I've cut and fitted a demountable expanded polystyrene foam pad for each of them so that I can open it all up again in the summer and have the fridge-heat leave by the back rather than being forced into the living area. In the winter, however, it makes sense to keep that heat inside! Not just for the (marginal) saving on gas, but also to ensure that the temperature around the fridge itself stays above 10°C so that it keeps working effectively.
CelticRambler
Verified Username
Posts: 2586
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:19 pm
Location: Central France

Re: Off-grid motorhome upgrade

#5

Post by CelticRambler »

Oh, one other thing about the fridge: I made a point of picking a model that can effectively freeze from fresh. That was always a weakness of the Dometic - it struggled to freeze any meat I'd buy from a supermarket, or second or third portions of anything I'd prepare day-to-day. This one (during the hottest part of the summer) was able to fully freeze ten good-sized ice-packs in about eight hours.
Hairy-Joe
Posts: 1567
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:33 pm

Re: Off-grid motorhome upgrade

#6

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Oh I think Dometic fridges are bad. The Thetford are a lot better. I had an undercounter 90L Thetford 3 way in the Laika and it would freeze steaks in a couple of hours even when it was high 20C outside. The same model Thetford in the Burstner just managed in high 20C low 30C for a few days but falls over after a week or so at 30C plus. The Knaus at home has a 130L Thetford and that would freeze steaks in a couple of hours in over 30C.

The Dometic fridge in the (now traded in) Burstner couldn't really manage at temperatures over 30C but wouldn't even freeze steaks in a "fine Irish summer day" at close to 20C.

I find it interesting that more and more manufacturers are going for 12V compressor fridges.
CelticRambler
Verified Username
Posts: 2586
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:19 pm
Location: Central France

Re: Off-grid motorhome upgrade

#7

Post by CelticRambler »

I did look at a few of those, but they're fierce expensive.

Checking up on the current state of heat pump technology for my chicken shed renovation took me off on a bit of a tangent at one point, towards the latest in motorhome air conditioners. Back in the day, when we were choosing optional extras for this vehicle, living space AC was an incredibly hungry beast, requiring the kind of hook-up you'd only ever get on a full-feature campsite. I was surprised to see that they've improved considerably, and it looks like my system might already have enough spare capacity to run one, and certainly would if/when I upgrade the charge controller.

What I haven't yet seen, though, is DC/AC inverters with a decent power output becoming a more regular feature. The one I've fitted does genuinely push out a steady 2kW; and as for the LiFePO4 battery - I'll never fit a Lead Acid again!
CelticRambler
Verified Username
Posts: 2586
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:19 pm
Location: Central France

Re: Off-grid motorhome upgrade

#8

Post by CelticRambler »

CelticRambler wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:58 amIn the winter, however, it makes sense to keep that heat inside! Not just for the (marginal) saving on gas, but also to ensure that the temperature around the fridge itself stays above 10°C so that it keeps working effectively.
This weekend is the first real test of cold-weather tolerance of the fridge, and "so far, so good". Outside temperature has been no higher than zero since I parked up last night, and I had the living space thermostat turned down to a "keep the chill off" setting while I was out. Coming back at around 5pm, the caravan temperature was 10°C while the fridge housing was a respectable 12.5°C, and a load of meat that I'd put in the freezer earlier was fully frozen.
Post Reply