Ash Dieback disease

[765489]

Just creating this thread since Ash makes up a very big percentage of big native broadleaf we have in this country. All my Ash trees are in various stages of infection by this disease.

I'm concerned not only that we will no longer have the pleasure of the sight of these trees on the landscape over the next few years but also the reduction in habitats for birds and bats as they start to fall to the ground as they weaken during storms. From what I can see the branches deteriorate quick rapidly and can be broken off with ease.

I have not seen any advice on possible alternative native trees that can be started to be planted as future replacements for this graceful broadleaf from any state agencies. I'm not surprised by this. It will be possibly a case of private individuals taking action on their own land / community areas.

What I have done last winter was plant a few black alders around my boundaries. These are quick growing trees. Other possible replacements for me include Field Maple. I'm wary about Horse Chesnut ( Bleeding Canker ).

The other concern I have, and its an ongoing one is what lessons have the state learned in all of this with regard to the outsourcing of growing some of our native trees to other parts of the EU. Maybe there should be a ban on importing other important native tree species such as Hawthorn ? There is no reason why these cant be grown fully locally and while the cost might be higher for the end product, from a bio security point of view it would reduce the risk of completely killing off of another important native species. Or that bio security measures are introduced more quickly, Ash Dieback was known about for a long time but the department of agriculture didn't act until it was in the country.

The commercial forestry aspect of Ash is a complete disaster and has been since it was discovered. But that's a separate issue. Its a damning indictment of our so called green government, in my opinion, the mess our commercial forestry industry is currently in.

One observation I've noted in the planting of bareroot trees over the years is the timing of planting them. The traditional month in planting bareroot trees is advertised as March. I've found the survival rate for the last couple of years of bareroots planted at that time of the year is low, compared to late December/ January. I've had this conversation with a popular Irish tree outlet last year, they seem to be coming around to the same conclusion.

Anyway there will be plenty of hardwood fire around for the next few years, although I'd rather be looking up at the tree rather than burning its remains.

[marhay70]

Just creating this thread since Ash makes up a very big percentage of big native broadleaf we have in this country. All my Ash trees are in various stages of infection by this disease.

I'm concerned not only that we will no longer have the pleasure of the sight of these trees on the landscape over the next few years but also the reduction in habitats for birds and bats as they start to fall to the ground as they weaken during storms. From what I can see the branches deteriorate quick rapidly and can be broken off with ease.

I have not seen any advice on possible alternative native trees that can be started to be planted as future replacements for this graceful broadleaf from any state agencies. I'm not surprised by this. It will be possibly a case of private individuals taking action on their own land / community areas.

What I have done last winter was plant a few black alders around my boundaries. These are quick growing trees. Other possible replacements for me include Field Maple. I'm wary about Horse Chesnut ( Bleeding Canker ).

The other concern I have, and its an ongoing one is what lessons have the state learned in all of this with regard to the outsourcing of growing some of our native trees to other parts of the EU. Maybe there should be a ban on importing other important native tree species such as Hawthorn ? There is no reason why these cant be grown fully locally and while the cost might be higher for the end product, from a bio security point of view it would reduce the risk of completely killing off of another important native species. Or that bio security measures are introduced more quickly, Ash Dieback was known about for a long time but the department of agriculture didn't act until it was in the country.

The commercial forestry aspect of Ash is a complete disaster and has been since it was discovered. But that's a separate issue. Its a damning indictment of our so called green government, in my opinion, the mess our commercial forestry industry is currently in.

One observation I've noted in the planting of bareroot trees over the years is the timing of planting them. The traditional month in planting bareroot trees is advertised as March. I've found the survival rate for the last couple of years of bareroots planted at that time of the year is low, compared to late December/ January. I've had this conversation with a popular Irish tree outlet last year, they seem to be coming around to the same conclusion.

Anyway there will be plenty of hardwood fire around for the next few years, although I'd rather be looking up at the tree rather than burning its remains.

There are reports recently from the UK, of some Ash managing to grow through the disease but unfortunately not enough data to signal a general recovery. Let's hope it's true and we don't see the Ash go the same way as the beautiful Elms that once graced many of our streets.

[765489]

There are reports recently from the UK, of some Ash managing to grow through the disease but unfortunately not enough data to signal a general recovery. Let's hope it's true and we don't see the Ash go the same way as the beautiful Elms that once graced many of our streets.

I remember watching a program on TG4 about Ireland's native trees. On one of the programs there was a man that worked in Glenveigh National Park where there are still healthy populations of Wych Elm. He maintained that the little beetle that carries the fungal spores of dutch elm disease could not reach the location where the pockets of Elm still grow unaffected in the park. Can't remember for certain what the natural barrier was, think it could have been mountains but not hundred percent.

I have an Ash that fell before I was born but branches shot up from the base and are now a series of independent branches that have formed a tree 40 foot high. This is the only one here that is healthy and has vigour compared to other Ash trees that are growing from one main trunk. Will take a couple of photos later.

[CelticRambler]

The other concern I have, and its an ongoing one is what lessons have the state learned in all of this with regard to the outsourcing of growing some of our native trees to other parts of the EU. Maybe there should be a ban on importing other important native tree species such as Hawthorn ? There is no reason why these cant be grown fully locally and while the cost might be higher for the end product, from a bio security point of view it would reduce the risk of completely killing off of another important native species. Or that bio security measures are introduced more quickly, Ash Dieback was known about for a long time but the department of agriculture didn't act until it was in the country.

The commercial forestry aspect of Ash is a complete disaster and has been since it was discovered. But that's a separate issue. Its a damning indictment of our so called green government, in my opinion, the mess our commercial forestry industry is currently in.

It'll be of no consolation, but I think it's worth pointing out that the Irish government and Dept of Agriculture (or whoever has the Forestry mandate at any time) is no worse than most of the other governments in Europe. When it comes to biosecurity - whether that be plant, animal or human - there's a pitiful lack of enthusiasm to do things the right way; and, unfortunately, huge pressure from the public to not do things the right way.

You can see this playing out at the moment in the North, with all the stupidity surrounding SPS checks between GB and NI. There should be no political aspect to this, as GB and Ireland are two separate islands with two separate ecological environments ... but certain parties have decided that politics is more important than biosecurity. Both the people and the government of Ireland have way too much of a sense of "togetherness" with GB for the good of the country's health (c.f. the infamous pre-lockdown Cheltenham debacle); but it's not hugely different on the Continent.

We had a minor incident at the festival last week, with an infected ash tree taking a sudden turn for the worse one evening after a few strong gusts of wind had pushed it beyond the limits of what it's trunk could bear. A cherry picker and chainsaw had to make an urgent intervention before it crashed down onto a line of stalls and general public walking past on the main avenue.

However, as Marhay70 says, there are some encouraging indications from Eastern Europe (where it all began) that resistance is developing in some individuals and their offspring, and it's now thought that the best way to control the disease is not to "cull the herd" but leave as many trees as possible so that the potentially resistant ones can grow and re-seed that part of the woodland.

[marhay70]

I remember watching a program on TG4 about Ireland's native trees. On one of the programs there was a man that worked in Glenveigh National Park where there are still healthy populations of Wych Elm. He maintained that the little beetle that carries the fungal spores of dutch elm disease could not reach the location where the pockets of Elm still grow unaffected in the park. Can't remember for certain what the natural barrier was, think it could have been mountains but not hundred percent.

I have an Ash that fell before I was born but branches shot up from the base and are now a series of independent branches that have formed a tree 40 foot high. This is the only one here that is healthy and has vigour compared to other Ash trees that are growing from one main trunk. Will take a couple of photos later.

Maybe, unfortunately, we can't transplant conditions from one place to another. It's an irony with Ash, they'll root so easily, I doubt there's a gardener in the country who hasn't mowed saplings out of their garden at some time, and yet it was so susceptible to the dieback. In my experience, vigorous plants usually have better disease resistance.

[765489]

Good study here on the disease so far.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-08825-6

[765489]

However, as Marhay70 says, there are some encouraging indications from Eastern Europe (where it all began) that resistance is developing in some individuals and their offspring, and it's now thought that the best way to control the disease is not to "cull the herd" but leave as many trees as possible so that the potentially resistant ones can grow and re-seed that part of the woodland.

This was the initial reaction to it when it first arrived in Ireland's commercial plantations - slash and burn. Was never going to work as the tree is too widespread for the disease to be contained.

[marhay70]

Good study here on the disease so far.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-08825-6

Some depressing stats in that. I suppose there is one chink of light in the fact that one Ash species is resistant, it should be possible, given the will and the money, to isolate the resistant gene and hopefully come up with a remedy.
Unfortunately, I think the will and the money will be hard to come by in the current climate, I fear the powers that be are unlikely to place this high on their list of priorities.

[SmartinMartin]

Countless amounts of healthy ash at ours, in fact I can't remember ever having seen any diseased trees. Is it only affecting certain areas? South Kerry for reference.

[765489]

Countless amounts of healthy ash at ours, in fact I can't remember ever having seen any diseased trees. Is it only affecting certain areas? South Kerry for reference.

I'm in Dublin Smartmartin and there is not one tree I can find that is healthy. Even the one I said was healthy enough has some signs of the disease starting but not as progressed as the rest. This year you can really see it on the trees round here. Leaf cover on them is down to 50 percent in some cases. Will get a couple of photos.

[marhay70]

Just read that Teagasc is already building a gene bank of disease resistant Ash varieties, so I may have been a bit hasty in my criticism of the powers that be. Hopefully, it will produce results before most of us on here travel to that great forest in the sky. For some reason, I can't post a link but it's on the Dept. website

[765489]

This is my observations of the stages involved using trees just photographed. Visually observing the crown of the tree ( this is in no way scientific )

Early signs are some of the uppermost twigs on the crown starting to become leafless. In the early days of this I used to be hoping it was just crows using the twigs as a regular perch.

Screenshot_20220724-143113_Gallery.jpg

Then comes the stage where whole branches are bare.

Screenshot_20220724-143053_Gallery.jpg

Last one there are still a couple of twigs with leaf cover but it's more or less dead.

Screenshot_20220724-143105_Gallery.jpg

[765489]

Just read that Teagasc is already building a gene bank of disease resistant Ash varieties, so I may have been a bit hasty in my criticism of the powers that be. Hopefully, it will produce results before most of us on here travel to that great forest in the sky. For some reason, I can't post a link but it's on the Dept. website

What you said before about the Ash saplings, infected trees seem to still produce healthy saplings. I've a load of them growing which I plan to move in winter. Don't know if there is any point but will do it anyway. Normally I'd just cut them and be rid if them!

Teagasc would be working on research into all of this and have been trialling and trying to build up a stock of trees that show some resistance. It was me who has been hasty in my criticism from my first post. But I'm sure ye are all used to the incoherent way I post at this stage

I'm like a bull in a China shop sometimes the way I try and get things out of my head!

[Del.Monte]

"I'm like a bull in a China shop sometimes the way I try and get things out of my head!" - I'm president of that club.

[marhay70]

What you said before about the Ash saplings, infected trees seem to still produce healthy saplings. I've a load of them growing which I plan to move in winter. Don't know if there is any point but will do it anyway. Normally I'd just cut them and be rid if them!

Teagasc would be working on research into all of this and have been trialling and trying to build up a stock of trees that show some resistance. It was me who has been hasty in my criticism from my first post. But I'm sure ye are all used to the incoherent way I post at this stage

I'm like a bull in a China shop sometimes the way I try and get things out of my head!

Well with the number of ailments I have, I've lost count of the times I've been told "It runs in families". So I was a healthy bonny baby boy in the dim and distant past but now I'm as decrepit as they come as all my ancestors troubles come back to haunt me. It's in the genes and I would reckon that doesn't only apply to the human species.
Stlll, no harm in transplanting a few saplings, if nothing else you might get some decent firewood in the future.

[765489]

Got this from Teagasc forestry news letter June 2022

The ash-breeding programme to develop dieback-tolerant genotypes started in 2015. As part of this research work, a field trial consisting of 1,000 Irish genotypes was established in Lithuania; a high disease pressure region at the time, to screen and identify dieback-tolerant genotypes. In addition, Teagasc has built a collection of over 200 genotypes of ash comprising tolerant material from different ashbreeding programmes in Europe. Teagasc research is continuously monitoring and including grafts of tolerant genotypes. Recently, 18 new Irish genotypes showing a higher level of tolerance to the disease have been added to 208 existing genotypes for further testing. Three gene banks have been established and disease tolerance data is collected on a regular basis. The graft technique is deployed to bulk up the tolerant material to set up field trials in 2023 with support from Coillte. Teagasc is continuously working to secure sites for both conservation as well as screening of the plant material selected as tolerant to ash dieback. Based on preliminary data collected over the last two years, ~15% of the trees are showing higher tolerance to the disease. Research shows that around 1-2% of ash trees would naturally be tolerant to ash dieback disease. Every surviving healthy tree is extremely valuable for tree breeding, reforestation efforts, and genetic conservation of this valuable native tree species. Therefore, one recommendation that tree breeders and researchers can provide is not to cut the ash trees that have survived the disease over the last decade or so, but to retain them for potential breeding. Preliminary results from the ongoing breeding programme to improve disease tolerance are encouraging, but this is an ongoing process, which will take time to come to fruition. The long-term aim of this work is to multiply these tolerant genotypes to establish clonal seed orchards and to continue field testing the clones and their progeny to restore ash in the Irish landscape. For further information, see www.teagasc.ie/crops/forestry/advice/fo ... k/research

[SmartinMartin]

This explains why i haven't seen it yet.

[isha]

There's a cross-border back road I drive regularly and it had whole avenues of huge mature Ash trees for miles. The farmers have been removing these trees lately. Probably for safety, and also because it is a losing battle and one may as well have firewood now that is not rotted from the heart. The breadth of the sawn stumps is sobering, one after the other along the sides of the road. Whole stretches are almost completely denuded of trees now, as it was the most common tree in the area, just some straggling Willow and the occasional young Beech left to break up the low hedges. The area is scenic enough to be beautiful despite this sad shearing. Nonetheless it is a huge loss.

[KHD]

There's a cross-border back road I drive regularly and it had whole avenues of huge mature Ash trees for miles. The farmers have been removing these trees lately. Probably for safety, and also because it is a losing battle and one may as well have firewood now that is not rotted from the heart. The breadth of the sawn stumps is sobering, one after the other along the sides of the road. Whole stretches are almost completely denuded of trees now, as it was the most common tree in the area, just some straggling Willow and the occasional young Beech left to break up the low hedges. The area is scenic enough to be beautiful despite this sad shearing. Nonetheless it is a huge loss.

Very sad to see big graceful trees like that succumb to this disease. It is the most common of the big trees we have. The landscape will be changed in a lot of places over the next few years. At this stage I would have hoped there would be some action plans put in place by the powers that be to roll out some sort of national tree planting scheme to replace the inevitable demise of these trees with the likes of Alder and other species to kick start the slow replacement of the Ash that will either fall or be taken down along roads due to risks of them falling. But like everything else in this country, long term planning is limited in timeframes to the next general election. We have these green muppets in key areas of government including one in forestry. A simple scheme such as providing 20 to 30 native trees free of charge ( they only cost 70 cent for 1 to 2 year old whips if you were to buy them from Coilte anyway ) to anyone that is interested and subsidise it would cost peanuts in the general scheme of things and also would help keeping our countryside a nice place to visit from a tourism point of view.

[Setanta]

Does anyone know,if the seeds off infected trees will have it


I have a fairly isolated bit of land with some substantial trees on it,with no signs of it yet.....was going to try and save a few hundred seeds before these get infected


Also have some at home,but have started to succumb to it,was thinking of letting it run through the area,and potentially have a few hundred saplings to sell in 7 to 10 years after every other ash tree is long gone......or set it up as a forest with an irrigation system and spray periodically with blight spray and have an immensely valueable crop for hurls etc in 20 or so years

Teagasc and coilte were of great assistance when I wrote to em earlier this year

[isha]

Teagasc has a breeding program since 2015 to try and find genetically resistant Ash. Maybe you could email this guy?
https://horticultureconnected.ie/featur ... n-ireland/

DR DHEERAJ RATHORE is a tree improvement researcher at Teagasc, Forestry Development Department. He is leading the Teagasc ash breeding programme to breed genotypes that are highly tolerant to dieback disease, productive and adapted for the changing climate. He can be contacted at Dheeraj.Rathore@teagasc.ie.

I have noticed isolated specimens that are doing very well which is a great relief.