Supermarket fruit and veg quality / lack of in season Irish produce

[765489]

We only had turnips for cattle, but I can tell in a shop a new from an old turnip, and yes I agree with you about what be on offer. I love them raw too; now, I'm not exactly over the hill yet , but when young and outside playing, if I got hungry I'd put a turnip through the pulper for a snack

We used to eat them out in the field when we were snigging them. Get a small one, cut four sides and the top off it and into the gob My father had a labrador, Jack, who's job was to bring out his knife, used to pick it up by the handle. We would pull a medium sized turnip, snig the top of it and give it to him. He'd sit in the ally of the drills and happily eat away at the turnip.

[Uncle Frank]

Irish honey is the best in the world. I don't mean Boyne Valley and the others with the lovely sounding Irish names, look at the back of the jar and if it says 'a blend of EU and non EU honeys' it will be rubbish with sugar mixed in.

Honey doesn't travel well and the most delicious stuff you will ever eat is from hives nearest to where you live. It is more expensive but the taste really puts that mass produced muck in the shade. And it's good for you too.

[Osciiboscii]

Irish honey is the best in the world. I don't mean Boyne Valley and the others with the lovely sounding Irish names, look at the back of the jar and if it says 'a blend of EU and non EU honeys' it will be rubbish with sugar mixed in.

Honey doesn't travel well and the most delicious stuff you will ever eat is from hives nearest to where you live. It is more expensive but the taste really puts that mass produced muck in the shade. And it's good for you too.

Yep, agree totally. And local jams too.

[CelticRambler]

spud varieties sold in supermarkets are not necessarily the best tasting varieties. A local spud farmer here said he's more or less just growing Roosters as this is what the wholesalers want. His father on the other hand would have grown multiple varieties - Kerrs Pinks, British Queens, Golden Wonders, Pentland Dells etc etc

In my early days here in France, I got chatting to a client about his frequent campervan trips to Ireland. He told me that he loved everything about Ireland and the Irish ... except the potatoes - he brought his own potatoes from France. At the time, I took offence - I mean potatoes are our thing, aren't they? But now I understand exactly what he meant. I have four different varieties growing in my own garden because it does make a difference, when you use the right variety for each recipe!

[Del.Monte]

Not a big turnip fan but at secondary school I used to occasionally work on the school farm, as an alternative to sport, and 'snagging' turnips with a machete was one of the jobs. You would work up quite an appetite and a turnip cut into chunks was the only sustenance available out in the fields - quite delicious.

[765489]

Not a big turnip fan but at secondary school I used to occasionally work on the school farm, as an alternative to sport, and 'snagging' turnips with a machete was one of the jobs. You would work up quite an appetite and a turnip cut into chunks was the only sustenance available out in the fields - quite delicious.

My father used to get a couple of young lads from Coolock to help thin out the turnips every year and help with the weeding. Used to cycle up in their bikes not a bother to them. Wouldn't see that now. One of them went on to own a very large company and still talks about spending time up on my dad's farm. It was a great way for kids to learn the value of hard work and being rewarded for it.

[Uncle Frank]

My father used to get a couple of young lads from Coolock to help thin out the turnips every year and help with the weeding. Used to cycle up in their bikes not a bother to them. Wouldn't see that now. One of them went on to own a very large company and still talks about spending time up on my dad's farm. It was a great way for kids to learn the value of hard work and being rewarded for it.

Like in the old days thousands of working class families from London used to go picking hops in the countryside for a week or two every summer. They called it their holidays.
It all died out around the 50s when harvesting and sorting became more mechanised but I saw old people who did it when they were children being interviewed and they were saying it was some of the happiest memories of their life.

[765489]

Pink Lady®, it's not an apple but a lifestyle choice. Why would ya want an ordinary apple from Ireland when you can bite into a fruit that has been shipped 18000kms from Chile. Think sustainability for heavens sake.

You can adopt a tree, fly over and harvest it if you like. Be part of the Pink Lady® movement for sustainability and change.

https://pinkladyapples.com/trade-mark-v ... stinction/

We are not licensed to grow Pink Lady® in Ireland so tough sh1t Irish Apple growers, we don't want your blemished crab apples on our shelves no more.

[CelticRambler]

SonNo.1 spent a few years in French boarding school (a common practice here, not elitist, just sensible for rural children to save them commuting over 100km every day) and he made the observation himself one day that there was a noticeable difference between those who lived in the concrete bubble, with everything laid on and accessible, and those who had (no choice!) to make stuff happen, but could count on the support of everyone in the locality, of all ages.

I've seen it myself with family and friends, and it goes beyond buying whatever veg you want whenever you want, but I think the provision of fresh vegetables sums up a lot about modern life for the urban population: a sizeable disconnect between the processess of production and consumption.

[Bobby the Basque]

We grew a limited supply ourselves this year but usually get in fruit and veg shop locally. We eat a lot of scallions in this house, adults in salads and sandwiches and 2 of kids eat them on their own so could get thru 3 bunches a week. Read a tip online a while back recommending standing the scallions upright in water in the fridge, like a bunch of flowers to make them retain freshness.
Now call me stupid, but this never occurred to me before. Tried it and never looked back. The scallions stay lovely and fresh and 'plump' and last so much longer.

Aye this was introduced to me by a polish girl, same with cut parsley/herbs but out of the fridge will stay fresh for a while like that. Also soak a lettuce or anything leafy in water to perk it up a bit if gone floppy...before you ask only works for veg.

Farmers markets or veg boxs are the way to go, its shocking how much stuff is imported in the supermarkets then you have all the packaging as well to contend with. Majority of imported veg has no taste might as well have a good Irish spud.

[Bobby the Basque]

I saw on ear to the ground or one of those type of shows a farm that grew organic vegetables and only supplied to the local area, you would be getting the freshest stuff possible delivered to your door.
If every county had a few farms like that providing for just the local area we could cut down the amount of imported veg massively and all the plastic wrapping that comes along with it.

Very popular in the UK most places will have a local organic box service although the quality varies and typically they will always need to buy in some stuff for it...unless you happy with carrots, cabbage and potatoes turnips etc through the hungry gap!

[Bobby the Basque]

There's a nice variety I put down a few years ago called Orla. If you take them up early before the skin thickens up and they get too big they are lovely. There's an organic potato producer that sells the seed in Wicklow. I must check with my brother if he's still going.

Forgot about Homeguards.

I can't stand Roosters.

Yes Orla are great, Triplo, Marfona, Sharpes, Charlottes on the go here at the moment, shetland blue/black also a cracking spud.

[Bobby the Basque]

Irish honey is the best in the world. I don't mean Boyne Valley and the others with the lovely sounding Irish names, look at the back of the jar and if it says 'a blend of EU and non EU honeys' it will be rubbish with sugar mixed in.

Honey doesn't travel well and the most delicious stuff you will ever eat is from hives nearest to where you live. It is more expensive but the taste really puts that mass produced muck in the shade. And it's good for you too.

Ha you might get some pushback from the Poles on that point! but if you live in a nice rural area then yeah probably your best honey is what you can buy locally but I doubt you will get Buckwheat honey or lime flower (lipa) in Ireland def won't get Caruba or prickly pear (Sicily) I find no issue with it travelling heat is the biggest issue. Agree the muck on the supermarket shelves is basically just a jar of sugar.

[765489]

Yes Orla are great, Triplo, Marfona, Sharpes, Charlottes on the go here at the moment, shetland blue/black also a cracking spud.

I never tried the blue / black spuds. Might try a few next year.

[765489]

Interesting to see how things pan out for vegetable growers this year. Especially with the high cost of fertiliser and other inputs. I can see alot more exit from speaking with some of them over the last few months.Very sad to see people exit the commercial vegetable growing sector as you will not get these people or the knowledge back. Generations of knowledge and skill being lost for the sake of a few cents more on a head of cabbage or a cauliflower by the retailers / supermarkets. To me it's important that consumers are aware of what is happening in the sector and think, if you see a vegetable that is in season here but not on display on the supermarket shelf as to whether you purchase the import or go to another supermarket for the Irish equivalent. Consumers need to support Irish vegetable growers with their feet if they can.

One of the lads in this article is my neighbour.

‘Unacceptable’ retail price forcing vegetable grower exodus

https://www.independent.ie/business/far ... 22934.html

Edit Less than a 100 growers left in the country is a shocking statisic.

[CelticRambler]

Especially with the high cost of fertiliser and other inputs. I can see alot more exit from speaking with some of them over the last few months.Very sad to see people exit the commercial vegetable growing sector as you will not get these people or the knowledge back. Generations of knowledge and skill being lost for the sake of a few cents more on a head of cabbage or a cauliflower by the retailers / supermarkets.

It's not good to see local fresh food producers switch to alternative forms of agriculture, but I'd have to argue the point that this represents "generations of knowledge and skill being lost". What we're seeing are people not using knowledge or skill to innovate and improve their production, but - like in the other thread - whinging about the rising costs of doing exactly the same thing they've always done; and rather than reduce their use of high-cost, probably high-polluting fertiliser, they've decided to stick with the same inefficient model but switch to a different crop.

To me it's important that consumers are aware of what is happening in the sector and think, if you see a vegetable that is in season here but not on display on the supermarket shelf as to whether you purchase the import or go to another supermarket for the Irish equivalent. Consumers need to support Irish vegetable growers with their feet if they can.

Good luck with that! You know as well as I do that the average supermarket customer would happily sacrifice any protected natural environment as long as they can have Spanish strawberries in February. It's swings and roundabouts. Customers demand low prices and farmers fight with each other to agree unsustainable deals with the supermarkets to feed the habit. Neither party joins the dots and both end up worse off.

[765489]

It's not good to see local fresh food producers switch to alternative forms of agriculture, but I'd have to argue the point that this represents "generations of knowledge and skill being lost". What we're seeing are people not using knowledge or skill to innovate and improve their production, but - like in the other thread - whinging about the rising costs of doing exactly the same thing they've always done; and rather than reduce their use of high-cost, probably high-polluting fertiliser, they've decided to stick with the same inefficient model but switch to a different crop.

This is definitely not the case in commercial vegetable production here in ireland. The guys I know are at the top of their game with regard to innovation and efficiency. They simply have to be. These guys would have precision in all aspects of their operation. But it is not enough. Fertiliser on vegetables simply can't be dumped out as you suggest willy nilly as that would either kill off the crop or cause the crop to grow a way that will affect the end results of the crop if there is too much of any one mineral or nutrient applied to it.

They are raising the issue and it is wrong to call someone a whinger simply for raising awareness on issues impacting an industry.

[CelticRambler]

They are raising the issue and it is wrong to call someone a whinger simply for raising awareness on issues impacting an industry.

They're not really "raising the issue" though, are they? They're saying that their preferred business model is no longer viable and, of the two examples cited, one is switching to a different model - but still staying in farming - and the other is opting for retirement after 40 years. So it's really no more of an issue than the kind of evolution that faces any other business sector.

... commercial vegetable production ... precision in all aspects of their operation... issues impacting an industry.

Again, the vocabulary of cold, hard business. The knowledge and skill to which you refer is obviously obsolete in today's market if other producers can deliver what the customer wants at a price the customer is prepared to pay. And there's the thing: short food supply chains (i.e. direct farm-to-customer sales) are increasing all the time. That's where the growth is, that's where the profit is for farmers - even more so if it's organic (sales in Ireland up 81% in the last couple of years, compared to 21% for supermarket veg)

If any particular producer prefers to stick with industrial-scale, mass production sold to hard-bargaining supermarkets, that's his or her choice, so there's no point then complaining about the terms and conditions imposed by that single customer. Similarly, there's no point hoping that a supermarket shopper will buy average quality veg at a higher price just because it's Irish when the more discerning customer knows that they can get much better quality for the same price by going directly to the producer.

[765489]

They're not really "raising the issue" though, are they? They're saying that their preferred business model is no longer viable and, of the two examples cited, one is switching to a different model - but still staying in farming - and the other is opting for retirement after 40 years. So it's really no more of an issue than the kind of evolution that faces any other business sector.



Again, the vocabulary of cold, hard business. The knowledge and skill to which you refer is obviously obsolete in today's market if other producers can deliver what the customer wants at a price the customer is prepared to pay. And there's the thing: short food supply chains (i.e. direct farm-to-customer sales) are increasing all the time. That's where the growth is, that's where the profit is for farmers - even more so if it's organic (sales in Ireland up 81% in the last couple of years, compared to 21% for supermarket veg)

If any particular producer prefers to stick with industrial-scale, mass production sold to hard-bargaining supermarkets, that's his or her choice, so there's no point then complaining about the terms and conditions imposed by that single customer. Similarly, there's no point hoping that a supermarket shopper will buy average quality veg at a higher price just because it's Irish when the more discerning customer knows that they can get much better quality for the same price by going directly to the producer.

There was a meeting of most of the vegetable growers in the country last week and they are starting to publicise their problems in media outlets so to me that's raising the issue. The man that has "retired" as you put it, explains his decision in a bit more detail below..

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/a ... 98965.html

Vegetable growing has always been a "cold and hard business".

As for the rest of your post, I'll just disagree. I'm at the polar opposite to your view on farming anyway CR and am not going to waste my time trying to convince you of why I disagree with what you say above.

[CelticRambler]

The man that has "retired" as you put it, explains his decision in a bit more detail below..

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/a ... 98965.html

Vegetable growing has always been a "cold and hard business".

As for the rest of your post, I'll just disagree. I'm at the polar opposite to your view on farming anyway CR and am not going to waste my time trying to convince you of why I disagree with what you say above.

That explanation reinforces the point I was making:

There aren’t many Brussels sprouts growers left in Ireland — with Mr Lenehan estimating his business is the “second biggest in the country”.

He is calling on retailers to “please listen as a plea to save this industry”.

“When it’s gone, it’s gone. There will be no more Irish vegetables if this goes on.”

Mr Lenehan said he just couldn’t “see the light at the end of the tunnel anymore” in the industry.

When direct-to-customer veg sales in Ireland are going through the roof, this guy is still trying to make living out of selling one of the least favourite vegetables anywhere. Why is he expecting retailers to save his business model? They're competing with - and losing ground to - the direct-to-customer producers, so they have no incentive to prop up a model that doesn't work any more.

I do think that mainstream Irish farming has gone too far down the "industry" path for its own good, with way too much reliance on the coop and the meat factories and the supermarkets and the EU. There needs to be a major shift back to farming, in its original sense, instead of this high-input, low-margin treadmill that's been heading towards this point for the last twenty years.

Fortunately, for the Irish consumer, there are plenty of farmers growing and selling Irish seasonal vegetables through multiple alternative outlets, and the future is looking very positive for them.

[765489]

Multiple alternative outlets ? Two independent vegetable shops have closed locally where I am over the last two years due to lack of foot fall. The two or three I know still going are getting all their veg from the same producers who supply the supermarkets. The reality is most people get their produce from the supermarkets. Would you rather it all come from the plastic city in Spain?

The direct to consumer fruit and veg farmer I know, who does a range of her own produce and not just bought in from wholesalers and remarketed as "fresh local produce" is also struggling and is considering throwing in the towel.

The reality is that farmer to consumer point of sales will always be a niche area, the majority of fruit and veg will always be bought in the supermarkets on the weekly shop.

As I said growers are leaving the business so your last paragraph is not correct. Growers include small scale producers by the way.

[765489]

And just to correct two points you made.

1. About the industrial scale farmers who do vegetables. 4369 hectares was devoted to vegetable growing in 2019 which involved 135 field scale growers. That's an average of 32 hectares per farm. That's not industrial scale in my book. In fact I don't know of any industrial scale farms in Ireland.

2. Again according to bord bia, over 90% of fruit and vegetables grown in Ireland were sold through supermarkets. This reflects the fact that most people buy their fruit and veg on their weekly shop.. where does this leave the independent vegetable shop and direct farm gate sales ?