Welcome to GUBU.ie - if you're new here check out Housekeeping for more info. Any queries contact us.

tesla make a billion. not all good news

User avatar
dawg
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:02 pm

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#1

Post by dawg »

mailman wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:59 pm https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/tesla-t ... -2021.html
......
I fear for them.
Anyone remember when Vodafone was spun out of Racal ?
For many years Vodafone were also on the receiving end of stones being thrown at them over their financials
Like Vodafone did, Tesla are in the midst of bringing about significant global change. Its no time to be distracted by trivia such as short term profitability.
Despite the naysayers, it worked well for Vodafone.

The legacy motor manufacturers had many chances to buy Tesla for very little and to close them down.
They didnt.
Now Ford, VAG, GM et al are in for a the mother of all shakeups.

OP, if you want to see a really ballsy project have a look at SpaceX's Starlink ;)
Last edited by dawg on Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
dawg
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:02 pm

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#2

Post by dawg »

Wouldnt worry about it.
They dont have the longtail liabilities that the legacy manufacturers have.
Also unlike legacy manufacturers, they dont have to worry about physical plant write offs
In addition, Tesla have shown themselves to be extremely agile...
Handlemaster
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:17 am

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#3

Post by Handlemaster »

dawg wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:40 pm Wouldnt worry about it.
They don't have the longtail liabilities that the legacy manufacturers have.
Also unlike legacy manufacturers, they don't have to worry about physical plant write-offs
In addition, Tesla has shown itself to be extremely agile...
Haven't the factories of existing manufactures also been paid for already?
At this stage, every one of them is either building new or reconfiguring existing plants.
VW will be a star in the EV market. Tesla's models are looking old now. When will they change the design? How much will that cost?
A lot of Telsa's hope is tied to China what did they sell there? 26k units, nothing. Sales dropped over 70 % from March to April. Telsa has not only a hope value but another Galaxy value not based on reality. They would have to have 100 % world market share and then some to justify the share price. a lot of Tesla investors say it's an energy company and justify the pricing this way. When the market turns and will Tesla will drop like a stone.
User avatar
Supercell
Verified Username
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:52 pm
Location: Loughlinstown
Contact:

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#4

Post by Supercell »

mailman wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:45 am Tesla aren't at the vanguard. The Chinese are.

batteries that charge as fast filling with petrol; go to China
https://pushevs.com/2021/07/30/gac-aion ... refueling/
batteries that use Sodium i.e. salt which is about as ubiquitous as you can hope for rather than precious metals ; go to China
https://pushevs.com/2021/07/29/catl-rev ... n-battery/
Those sodium batteries are perfect for fixed storage and the Superminis of the next decade. Cheap to manufacture, fast to charge and work at minus 20 degrees.

my EV uses Chinese battery cells assembled in to packs in Europe.

Anyone who thinks Tesla is where it is at just isn't keeping abreast of developments.
Agree 100%
I think $NIO and the BAAS is where its at and with Chinese government backing they are going to be a force to be reckoned with.
My only regret..bought $NIO @ $10 , sold @$6 (and was relived to have done so)..then bought back at $33....Such is life..
Image
Thargor
Verified Username
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:23 pm

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#5

Post by Thargor »

Don't bet any money on magical sodium or the 50 other new kinds of batteries that are always just about to revolutionise the market any day now, those stories are like nuclear fusion power plants, always just around the corner but only really good for filling space on the science blogs. Lithium is the best battery substrate now and into the future, that's what the gigafactories are being built to use and that's where all the billions of research dollars are going. Kicking myself for not loading up on PLS and the other miners during the recent lows, still my best performer in the portfolio though and plenty more to come.
Handlemaster
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:17 am

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#6

Post by Handlemaster »

Tesla valued at over a trillion. Crazy times
User avatar
dawg
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:02 pm

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#7

Post by dawg »

Crazy times indeed

Do Daimler still have a 10% holding ?
JONJO THE MISER
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:00 pm

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#8

Post by JONJO THE MISER »

The bull market is only getting going, tesla will reach 2 trillion market cap within a year.
User avatar
dawg
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:02 pm

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#9

Post by dawg »

Hmmm....

Think SpaceX deserves a bit better than that

They have been at it for nearly 20 years at this stage, are a major contractor to NASA, now have Starlink operational ( high speed internet for people in remote locations.

Dont believe any other company has managed to do routine launches with reusable first stage boosters ( ULA - Boeing & Co ) are still trying to pull this off



This has meant that they now offer by far the lowest cost per kilo for launch to space...So they are getting a lot (i.e. over half ) of the world launch business.

Gwynne Shotwell has done a fantastic job running SpaceX
User avatar
Del.Monte
Verified Username
Posts: 4945
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:11 pm
Location: The Sunny South East

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#10

Post by Del.Monte »

As one with zero interest or knowledge about space - apart from Sci Fi - I fail to see much tangible return for the billions/trillions of dollars spent on such things as moon landings and so forth and as for the nonsense of space tourism..

I'd be in favour of spending money developing a space weapon or some such that could potentially protect us from an asteroid but all I have seen over the decades is willy waving by the super powers and what benefit is that? Space is fascinating for a few nerds, let them go off and hold a few pub quizzes to raise cash for their hobby and use the billions squandered on saving this place or it will end up like Earth in Wall-e.

Image
'no more blah blah blah'
Handlemaster
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:17 am

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#11

Post by Handlemaster »

JONJO THE MISER wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:30 pm The bull market is only getting going, tesla will reach 2 trillion market cap within a year.
Maybe it will... or even 3 trillion.. do the numbers add up ? How long will it take an investor to see a return based on these share prices.. its just just a car company
User avatar
dawg
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:02 pm

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#12

Post by dawg »

Mountain wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:07 pm...Where he has failed so far is to explain to most of us why getting 100 people to Mars every year is going to save the planet. ...
Suspect that that is something you have invented all by yourself

Once upon a time one could say the entire NASA scene was a vanity project. For decades now, life without satellite functionality would be unthinkable. The situation that Starlink was created is going to have far reaching consequences and is far from a vanity project.

If you want to find vanity space projects maybe Bozo is where you should be looking

Do you view the Firefly and Astra as vanity space projects too ?
User avatar
dawg
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:02 pm

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#13

Post by dawg »

Del.Monte wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:05 pm As one with zero interest or knowledge about space.................
Do you see any benefit in being an ISP to everyone in the world that lives in the sticks ?

'cause thats the first thing that Starlink offers

User avatar
dawg
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:02 pm

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#14

Post by dawg »

Mountain wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:37 pm... In fact it's pretty much how he's characterised on social media.
Thats the problem, right there !

:lol:
User avatar
Del.Monte
Verified Username
Posts: 4945
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:11 pm
Location: The Sunny South East

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#15

Post by Del.Monte »

dawg wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:37 pm Do you see any benefit in being an ISP to everyone in the world that lives in the sticks ?
'cause thats the first thing that Starlink offers
That's where you have me - as I said I'm an ignoramus when it comes to things like that. However, I refer you to the Duke of Wellington's views about railways which he thought would only encourage the great unwashed to wander aimlessly.about the countryside (and he seems to have been correct about that) and I wonder what Paddy/Pádraigín would do with their ISP....Perhaps we should consult Enda Kenny? :)
'no more blah blah blah'
User avatar
Wibbs
Verified Username
Posts: 210
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:43 am

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#16

Post by Wibbs »

Mountain wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:09 pm He's failed to explain to most why colonizing other planets is necessary, and it looks like a vanity project.
Oh it's a vanity project alright, though most Big Ideas were/are. The renaissance was a plethora of vanity projects.

As for colonising space; one of humanity's biggest killer apps over the last million years was our wanderlust. We're colonisers and explorers. Colonies are a good idea, they safeguard the species. Currently all our eggs are in one basket. If something happens to that basket it's game over for humans. Now I think Musk's Mars stuff is a pipedream*, but some day we will have colonies on other worlds.


*While SpaceX has done much with lowering costs getting into orbit, low Earth orbit is low hanging fruit. It's the equivalent of paddling in the sea at Dollymount strand, going to our closest neighbour the Moon is akin to swimming to Lambay island. Going to Mars is like swimming to France. The resources required to go beyond Earth orbit are of several magnitudes greater. It's "easy" to send probes because they're small and self contained and require little energy to run and you can afford to wait a decade to make it to where you want to go. People on the other hand are a whole different ballgame. Consider Apollo. They built one of the most powerful machines ever, 40 stories high, the explosive power equivalent of a small atomic bomb controlled enough to fire three men in a craft with around the internal volume of a modern SUV to the Moon and back for a week. And what came back was the very tippy top. It would be like driving from Dublin to Cork and back with only the steering wheel left aftwards. And those men were scarily fit and scarily bright examples of humanity who went through all sorts of hardships to do it. A hundred people to Mars, a six month at least trip, land and set up a base where they can actually survive "off the grid", never mind have some chance of lifting off from Mars and coming back? That's another level.
Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
User avatar
Banshee Bones
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:30 am

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#17

Post by Banshee Bones »

One of the interesting things about Musk is how much a reaction he gets from the generation of bed wetters, its like the environmentalist neurosis has completely destroyed the qualities that made our species succesful, our sense of discovery and innovation.
User avatar
Cyclepath
Verified Username
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:37 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#18

Post by Cyclepath »

dawg wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:37 pm Do you see any benefit in being an ISP to everyone in the world that lives in the sticks ?

'cause thats the first thing that Starlink offers

This is an interesting issue actually. Although Starlink has a lot of bandwidth, it's evenly spread across large areas. It can't handle high density urban areas without far exceeding the power levels permitted by the FCC. Essentially their signal would interfere with too many others in the gigahertz range. Also I can't see too many city subscribers giving up cable or fibre in favour of satellite.
User avatar
Del.Monte
Verified Username
Posts: 4945
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:11 pm
Location: The Sunny South East

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#19

Post by Del.Monte »

@ Wibbs - Genuine question, what have been some of the tangible benefits from six decades of space exploration? I seem to remember that a some sort of fire retardant blanket and a super duper sleeping bag were invented. Unless space is being explored with a view to setting up a penal colony for the likes of Trump, Putin, Rocket Man, the Chinese politburo etc. it seems rather pointless.
'no more blah blah blah'
User avatar
Norman Breaks
Posts: 571
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:38 pm

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#20

Post by Norman Breaks »

Del.Monte wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:19 pm @ Wibbs - Genuine question, what have been some of the tangible benefits from six decades of space exploration? I seem to remember that a some sort of fire retardant blanket and a super duper sleeping bag were invented. Unless space is being explored with a view to setting up a penal colony for the likes of Trump, Putin, Rocket Man, the Chinese politburo etc. it seems rather pointless.
Space travel has provided huge leaps in technology. Everything from computers to various alloys and carbon fiber materials were invented or refined due to space exploration. Communications, Satnav, Maps.
Farmers use satellite imaging to better plant and harvest crops.
Archeologists use ground penetrating radar to find long lost structures and settlements covered by thing forests and jungles.
To name a few.
User avatar
dawg
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:02 pm

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#21

Post by dawg »

@cyclepath, Indeed you are so right. They expect it to be of use where there is no realistic alternative https://www.starlink.com/connecting-the-unconnected .
The retail price per month ( at least in the western world ) is pitched to make it unattractive to urban dwellers.
As is the way with these things, many analysts ( Wall St types etc etc ) have run figures on expected uptake. Seems globally there should be tens of millions wanting it. This translates to several USD billion / year income ( nice work if you can get it :D ).
Thats before they start in on what else it could be used for ( e.g. decent internet for commercial aviation & shipping ). Will probably knock the socks off many of the legacy special purpose sat operators too
JONJO THE MISER
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:00 pm

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#22

Post by JONJO THE MISER »

Tesla just broke $1200 stock price, next stop $1500.
User avatar
Wibbs
Verified Username
Posts: 210
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:43 am

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#23

Post by Wibbs »

Del.Monte wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:19 pm @ Wibbs - Genuine question, what have been some of the tangible benefits from six decades of space exploration? I seem to remember that a some sort of fire retardant blanket and a super duper sleeping bag were invented. Unless space is being explored with a view to setting up a penal colony for the likes of Trump, Putin, Rocket Man, the Chinese politburo etc. it seems rather pointless.
What Norman said. On top of that major impacts on aerospace another. Guidance systems yet another. Ever use a cordless drill? That was a NASA thing that Black and Decker developed for Apollo. Freeze dried foods and medical monitoring others. Computing tech really got a major boost with the dire need to shrink what had filled rooms into something the size of a suitcase. Interestingly those systems written for Apollo couldn't really crash as such. If there was any issue in running a piece of code, the system would ignore that, keep the other commands going and reset back to the start. So if you got a program alarm(they got a few), you could wait for it to recycle and go again.
Another angle that's often left out is streamlining of products from different industries brought together in a final assembly, checked all the way along that route. When NASA was going for the Moon they needed to spin up dozens of contractors and hundreds of sub contractors all over the US and beyond and get them into a supply line all singing from the same hymn sheet and as quickly and efficiently and as safely as possible(after the Apollo 1 fire they doubled down on this and revamped the whole thing). And with incredibly cutting edge tech to boot, much of completely new and untested. While American industry had gone a good way down that route in WW2 the Apollo programme really revved it up and many of the practices are still in use in industry today.
The environmental movement got a real boost from Apollo.
Image
This pic from christmas eve 1968 captured the imagination of the world and was the most reproduced photo on the planet for a couple of years. The astronauts themselves noted this to a man summed up by the words "we went to the moon, only to discover the earth". Look at how impacted William Shatner was recently after the barest hop beyond our surly bonds. Now imagine going so far out you see the entire Earth hanging in space. One astronaut when he came back and after the kerfuffle died down found himself going to shopping malls of all things to just sit and marvel at all the humanity and life around him. And these guys were not teenage hippies. They were in their late thirties, one was 48. Hard headed military types. Another thing the Apollo guys noted on returning to Earth was when they met people, no matter where they were from, France, India, even Russia people would say "we went to the moon". It had a big uniting effect at the time.
And that's before all the knowledge we've gained since Sputnik went up. Ice volcanos on Jupiter's moons, likely huge under the surface liquid oceans on other moons that make ours look like a puddle. The sheer vastness of it all and questions about our place in all that.
Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
User avatar
Del.Monte
Verified Username
Posts: 4945
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:11 pm
Location: The Sunny South East

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#24

Post by Del.Monte »

@ Wibbs. Thanks for that - I wasn't trolling and am interested in knowing what the benefits have been, As for being influenced by the moon landing - which I remember watching at the time - nah. Grainy black and white footage and I was more influenced by Doctor Who, Daleks and Cybermen (also in black and white) - sorry for being such a philistine.

Image

An 'iconic' photograph from a corner of my bookcase - the Tardis lights up and the materialisation sound plays when my mobile rings. Very sad, I know! :D
'no more blah blah blah'
User avatar
Memento Mori
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:22 pm

Re: tesla make a billion. not all good news

#25

Post by Memento Mori »

JONJO THE MISER wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:00 pm Tesla just broke $1200 stock price, next stop $1500.
Would love Tesla fans to explain why they think Tesla is with double what Berkshire Hathaway is (to take one example). It's insanity IMO.
Post Reply