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Mod Decisions and Discussion

Guburnor
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Mod Decisions and Discussion

#1

Post by Guburnor »

In the interests of consistent and transparent modding we are going to try and keep the mod discussion via PM to an absolute minimum. Please use this forum to discuss any mod decision or interaction.

Start threads on:

- If you receive a warning or a ban that you think is unfair and wish to discuss it further, start a thread here.
- Equally if you have reported a post and no action was taken, and you wish to discuss it further, start a thread here.

Don't start threads to:

- Report posts - use the report post function and explain the problem there.
- Make a general commentary on a particular poster or issue.

Short explanation of gubu modding system:

All things lead back to the forum rules - No racism or hate speech. Attack the post not the poster. Don't be a dick.

Don't be a dick is pretty wide ranging but basically means post with due consideration to others. You might be right but if you post it in a style that is inconsiderate, then you may be modded. That works both ways: also read and react to posts with due consideration to others.

Please be aware that don't be a dick applies in this forum as well. You might come and post here with valid point about a warning but if you start effin' and blinding and being a dick about it you may end up getting modded for that.

There is no points system here. Action depends on the circumstances. If you're being a dick you'll be given the benefit of the doubt and asked to stop, and if you don't you might find that stronger action is taken without warning. Spamming viagra pills etc will get an instant site ban.

In most cases there will be an on thread comment - 'Please do this, please don't do that etc", followed by a warning with which you'll receive a boiler plate PM, followed by thread ban, followed by site ban.

If you want to discuss a warning, or thread ban, please do it here - mods won't discuss it via PM.
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Memento Mori
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#2

Post by Memento Mori »

This seems most reasonable and transparant.

One immediate issue I can foresee is how "hate speech" is defined. Perhaps it might be a good idea to preempt this? This is an annoying conversation I know, and it does escape exact definition, but claims of "hate speech" have been used in recent years to decry utterances across a wide spectrum.
Guburnor
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#3

Post by Guburnor »

Memento Mori wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:31 pm This seems most reasonable and transparant.

One immediate issue I can foresee is how "hate speech" is defined. Perhaps it might be a good idea to preempt this? This is an annoying conversation I know, and it does escape exact definition, but claims of "hate speech" have been used in recent years to decry utterances across a wide spectrum.
As you say we cannot exactly define "hate speech" but from a modding point of view it would be closely linked to don't be a dick, i.e don't be gratuitously offensive and I see "hate speech" as being particularly offensive just for the sake of it. If somebody is modded for hate speech I suspect it will be pretty clear cut.
knownunknown
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#4

Post by knownunknown »

Thinking conservatives today tend to support free speech as reinforcing existing social institutions: in this case the practice in English society that people should say what they think and then work out for themselves where truth seems to lie. Discomfort to others is a bit of a side issue: speech should generally be curtailed only if it threatens the fundamentals of society itself, for example by directly fomenting violence.

For liberals, by contrast, looking at individuals in a more abstract way, hurt to others has been seen as central. There is moreover nothing extra-special about speech: if speech causes harm, that is a reason to ban it in the same way as one would ban anything else. Of course the idea of freedom of speech might counter this; but this is a much less powerful version of free speech as an abstract value, connected with such matters as dignity, often viewed through the mirror of human rights theory, and to be weighed in the balance with other values.

With liberals in the ascendant, the result hitherto has been creeping limits on what we are allowed to say, with conservative arguments being dismissed as irrelevant or beside the point.

As a result it is now a crime, [...] to say anything indecent or grossly offensive, whatever that means, anywhere at all on the internet. In the last few years it has seen one man heavily fined for a Youtube video showing his dog doing a Hitler salute, a feminist penalised for being rude on social media to a trans activist, and another campaigner threatened with a criminal record for the heinous crime of misgendering another trans activist
-Andrew Tettenborn

This Law Commission report came out last month on an issue crucial to free conversation and debate: how far we ought to criminalise harmful or hurtful communications.

It recommends [..] substituting a much narrower and simpler offence. Criminalisation should, it says, be limited to cases of communications likely and actually intended to cause serious distress to a probable audience. Intent would be essential, and even then the sender would have to have acted without any reasonable excuse. News media, moreover, would have a blanket exemption
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isha
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#5

Post by isha »

In my opinion this is a tad over the top as a response to two mild put downs of a hyperbolic post. If people can't be responded to with some level of sardonic observation, such as are used in normal real life interactions to check peer behaviour, then the line defining what is acceptable or not is too hard to decipher. Just my view. It's not something I am going to worry about. But a bit of cut and thrust is what works in real life to temper hyperbole. Or bad faith argumentation.

Image
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
Guburnor
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#6

Post by Guburnor »

isha wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 1:22 pm In my opinion this is a tad over the top as a response to two mild put downs of a hyperbolic post. If people can't be responded to with some level of sardonic observation, such as are used in normal real life interactions to check peer behaviour, then the line defining what is acceptable or not is too hard to decipher. Just my view. It's not something I am going to worry about. But a bit of cut and thrust is what works in real life to temper hyperbole. Or bad faith argumentation.

Image
I take your point, but it was a pre-emptive strike. I had no intention of modding what went before as I agree it's a bit of cut and thrust.

But as sure as night follows day it was likely to lead to a number tiresome exchanges that get increasingly insulting, which is what I was trying to avoid.

For instance see Avey's:
You think that poster should be killed? You need to take a good, long look in the mirror. You are disgusting.
And then Woke will log in and let rip on Avey, and so on and so forth.

And then it is out of control.

I was politely trying to avoid that with the "please could everyone not let this spat get out of control"
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isha
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#7

Post by isha »

I get it.
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
678904673
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#8

Post by 678904673 »

Guburnor wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 3:08 pm I take your point, but it was a pre-emptive strike. I had no intention of modding what went before as I agree it's a bit of cut and thrust.

But as sure as night follows day it was likely to lead to a number tiresome exchanges that get increasingly insulting, which is what I was trying to avoid.

For instance see Avey's:



And then Woke will log in and let rip on Avey, and so on and so forth.

And then it is out of control.

I was politely trying to avoid that with the "please could everyone not let this spat get out of control"

I appreciate and enjoy the light touch moderation on Gubu. But personally I think one poster wishing another poster is put down is a comment beyond the pale and no just a bit of cut and trust
Avey Terrible
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#9

Post by Avey Terrible »

Guburnor wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 3:08 pm I take your point, but it was a pre-emptive strike. I had no intention of modding what went before as I agree it's a bit of cut and thrust.

But as sure as night follows day it was likely to lead to a number tiresome exchanges that get increasingly insulting, which is what I was trying to avoid.

For instance see Avey's:



And then Woke will log in and let rip on Avey, and so on and so forth.

And then it is out of control.

I was politely trying to avoid that with the "please could everyone not let this spat get out of control"
Apologies, I understand that. It's just that what he said was so horrible that I felt the need to respond.
DeletedUser
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#10

Post by DeletedUser »

Can we have a blanket one day ban on anyone using the hackneyed phrase “so what you’re saying is …” followed by what they think you’re saying, rather that what you actually did.

It’s well used by people who troll and are incapable of understanding an argument.
“I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire

"I'll see you out there!!" - Roy Keane
Guburnor
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#11

Post by Guburnor »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:52 pm Can we have a blanket one day ban on anyone using the hackneyed phrase “so what you’re saying is …” followed by what they think you’re saying, rather that what you actually did.

It’s well used by people who troll and are incapable of understanding an argument.
Sorry, but we're not going to go down that road, it's the thin end of the wedge.
DeletedUser
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#12

Post by DeletedUser »

Guburnor wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2023 8:17 pm Sorry, but we're not going to go down that road, it's the thin end of the wedge.
I’d argue it’s part of “don’t be a dick” Gub - it’s disingenuous, cheap and arguing in bad faith.

But fair dos - thanks for the hearing! Hope you’re having a good Sunday!
“I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire

"I'll see you out there!!" - Roy Keane
DeletedUser
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#13

Post by DeletedUser »

I believe that the post discussing sex trafficking in Ireland was closed wrongly.

The decision to close it on the grounds that “it went in a direction we didn’t like” is against free and open discussion. It smacks of “you’re not agreeing with the right point of view”.

The one thing that puts this site head and shoulders above the others is that any topic can be discussed. Any opinion is valid and we are free to disagree.

The story posted initially was of course a tragic one - if true. We have no idea if it is or not. There are doubts raised from Africa to Derry and I see no reason why we should not be questioning.

I respectfully request it be reopened as there are many different strands to this debate that we have yet to cover.
“I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire

"I'll see you out there!!" - Roy Keane
Fugue
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#14

Post by Fugue »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:52 pm Can we have a blanket one day ban on anyone using the hackneyed phrase “so what you’re saying is …” followed by what they think you’re saying, rather that what you actually did.

It’s well used by people who troll and are incapable of understanding an argument.
Hah, they don't think you're saying it at all - they know full well it's not remotely what you're saying. 🙂
Guburnor
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#15

Post by Guburnor »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 5:33 pm I believe that the post discussing sex trafficking in Ireland was closed wrongly.

The decision to close it on the grounds that “it went in a direction we didn’t like” is against free and open discussion. It smacks of “you’re not agreeing with the right point of view”.

The one thing that puts this site head and shoulders above the others is that any topic can be discussed. Any opinion is valid and we are free to disagree.

The story posted initially was of course a tragic one - if true. We have no idea if it is or not. There are doubts raised from Africa to Derry and I see no reason why we should not be questioning.

I respectfully request it be reopened as there are many different strands to this debate that we have yet to cover.
If you're unable to take the hint PS, tread carefully.
DeletedUser
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#16

Post by DeletedUser »

Guburnor wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 5:57 pm If you're unable to take the hint PS, tread carefully.
A deeply disturbing response I have to say.
“I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire

"I'll see you out there!!" - Roy Keane
Guburnor
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#17

Post by Guburnor »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 6:36 pm A deeply disturbing response I have to say.
Reread the post in the thread lock you are complaining about, the hint I refer to is there:
Guburnor wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:07 pm I'm locking this thread for the simple reason I find the direction it has taken to be pretty distasteful to say the least.

If some posters can take a hint from that, and adjust accordingly, that would be very helpful.
It was intended politely.

If you interpret this as disturbing, perhaps it's a opportunity to reflect how an individual's posting style can come across to others.

Lest I be misconstrued again, I think your posting style is gratuitously spiteful, and you will be permabanned if you do not adjust it accordingly.
Deleted
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#18

Post by Deleted »

^^ Jesus!!

Beasty ??? is that you ??
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Del.Monte
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#19

Post by Del.Monte »

I feel Guburnor's light touch moderation is continually being tested by the same few posters who have repeatedly been warned but seem determined to get forum banned. There are few enough people posting here and we don't need to lose any more but I wonder how many are reluctant to join or post as the atmosphere has become quite toxic - rudeness, name calling etc. :(
'no more blah blah blah'
knownunknown
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#20

Post by knownunknown »

I had a lot more to say on the locked thread, even though what I said was replied to I never had another chance to reply again.

It has been framed as if discussion over and everyone arguing anything but “that poor lady” is in the wrong, should take the hint and are toxic. All without having the possibility to reply. It’s not fair. You can slate other posters in here but don’t dare bring up the topic is very boards like and I’ll happily take a ban for that because it’s a fact.
Leg End Reject
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#21

Post by Leg End Reject »

How you word things is important as the reader can only interpret text, there's no tone of voice, facial expression or body language for context.

It's possible to question and comment without vitriol and barely concealed contempt bordering on racism.

I don't agree with slating other posters, but I haven't seen that apart from a few very obvious usual suspects from Boards who are deliberately being inflammatory.
DeletedUser
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#22

Post by DeletedUser »

Guburnor wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:21 pm Reread the post in the thread lock you are complaining about, the hint I refer to is there:



It was intended politely.

If you interpret this as disturbing, perhaps it's a opportunity to reflect how an individual's posting style can come across to others.

Lest I be misconstrued again, I think your posting style is gratuitously spiteful, and you will be permabanned if you do not adjust it accordingly.
I’ve reread it several times and I am genuinely at a loss to see how my posts in that thread warranted any kind of sanction at all,

Yes sex trafficking is a vile sick “industry” and should be stopped or prevented. As I noted previous studies (from Ruhama themselves and others) have shown that these trafficked women tend to be abused by their own culture/race/nationality/call it what you will. So to stop it we need stronger borders, less immigration and an end to a de facto open borders policy.

That being said - we need to question everyone as to their reason why they came here or we may as well let everyone come in and give up any kind of border control. I’m a woman - women lie! That should not be breaking news!

The fact there was not allowed to be any kind of discussion about the subject as defined above is concerning.

My “posting style” may well be on the brusque side and I make no apologies for being passionate on issues that concern me.
“I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire

"I'll see you out there!!" - Roy Keane
Guburnor
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#23

Post by Guburnor »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2023 4:49 pm I’ve reread it several times and I am genuinely at a loss to see how my posts in that thread warranted any kind of sanction at all,

Yes sex trafficking is a vile sick “industry” and should be stopped or prevented. As I noted previous studies (from Ruhama themselves and others) have shown that these trafficked women tend to be abused by their own culture/race/nationality/call it what you will. So to stop it we need stronger borders, less immigration and an end to a de facto open borders policy.

That being said - we need to question everyone as to their reason why they came here or we may as well let everyone come in and give up any kind of border control. I’m a woman - women lie! That should not be breaking news!

The fact there was not allowed to be any kind of discussion about the subject as defined above is concerning.

My “posting style” may well be on the brusque side and I make no apologies for being passionate on issues that concern me.
MOD NOTE: Sitebanned
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Apelles
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#24

Post by Apelles »

Guburnor wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2023 5:46 pm MOD NOTE: Sitebanned
Oh well, you can't say that Guburnor hadn't given her plenty of warnings to reign in her aggressive style of posting.
jmayo
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Re: Mod Decisions and Discussion

#25

Post by jmayo »

Not good when one of the most prolific posters in parts of the site is banned.
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