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Aboriginal Transfers to Quarantine

All things COVID
Mountain
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Aboriginal Transfers to Quarantine

#1

Post by Mountain »

isha wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:21 pm The governments of the Northern Territories in Australia have asked the defense forces to help them remove Aboriginal people with Covid and their close contacts from their homes to Howard Springs quarantine camp

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -to-worsen

The camp

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Yet again the race card played, yet again lies, yet again misinformation.

They are dealing with an outbreak in a community that happens to be largely indigenous Australian. The have asked for help in removing people, not solely aboriginal people. The article itself notes...

Some of the territory’s key Indigenous bodies gave their backing to Gunner’s handling of the outbreak on Sunday.

Can anti vaxxers just not tell it as it is. For once. Go on, try it.
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#2

Post by Scotty »

They just happened to be Indigenous, and it was done with the backing of the Indigenous committee.


You didn't get the memo Isha, the use of the word 'Aboriginal' is frowned upon these days.
:o
Mountain
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#3

Post by Mountain »

isha wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:33 am Mountain, I am entitled to an opinion that is different to yours, on any topic. All day long.
And you are not entitled to engage in repeated personalised sneering commentary about my opinions.
Don't kid yourself.

Giving a false or misleading summary of a matter is not having or expressing an opinion. It's spreading misinformation.

You claimed there was a request to remove aboriginal people. I think you did it deliberately to twist the story. In fairness, you may also have the defence of missing the point. But "it's my opinion" is not a defence.

PS - the whistle blower did not work for Pfizer. Read the article. They worked for a different company.
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#4

Post by isha »

For the record, contrary to Mountain's claim that I '' claimed there was a request to remove aboriginal people'', what I said is
The governments of the Northern Territories in Australia have asked the defense forces to help them remove Aboriginal people with Covid and their close contacts from their homes to Howard Springs quarantine camp
which is correct.
The government asked the defense forces to help them remove Aboriginal people from their homes to camp.

This is from the Guardian article I linked
Binjari and nearby Rockhole have been placed into strict lockdown in response to the outbreak, and the Australian defence force has been called in to help with transferring positive cases and close contacts.
Yesterday in a further article The Guardian notes that local Indigenous health committees are saying they are not being properly consulted.
The peak Aboriginal health group in the Northern Territory has accused the territory government of excluding them from high-level decision-making about the Covid outbreak, despite the vast majority of cases appearing in Aboriginal communities.

The head of the NT’s Aboriginal medical services alliance (AMSANT) said he’s frustrated at having to find out about key decisions via the media.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... d-outbreak
Mountain
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#5

Post by Mountain »

isha wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:50 am The government asked the defense forces to help them remove Aboriginal people from their homes to camp.
I see you are doubling down on the misinformation.

I think you are being deliberately obtuse. As you refuse to accept that you are, as a matter of fact (again, not opinion) wrong, we'll draw a line.
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#6

Post by Scotty »

isha wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:50 am For the record, contrary to Mountain's claim that I '' claimed there was a request to remove aboriginal people'', what I said is

The governments of the Northern Territories in Australia have asked the defense forces to help them remove Aboriginal people with Covid and their close contacts from their homes to Howard Springs quarantine camp

which is correct.
The government asked the defense forces to help them remove Aboriginal people from their homes to camp.
Isha I had been giving you the benefit of doubt but it's clear you are purposely twisting and misquoting what was said in the article to make it look more sinister than it is.

What the defence forces were actually requested to do was "help with transferring positive cases and close contacts". This is VERY VERY different to "removing Aborigines from their homes". You're making it sound like there's some kind of ethnic cleansing going on. It's not.
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#7

Post by isha »

Scotty wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:20 am Isha I had been giving you the benefit of doubt but it's clear you are purposely twisting and misquoting what was said in the article to make it look more sinister than it is.

What the defence forces were actually requested to do was "help with transferring positive cases and close contacts". This is VERY VERY different to "removing Aborigines from their homes".
Very grateful for your indulgence, Scotty. :roll:

I do not know how transferring positive cases and close contacts among Aboriginal people to a quarantine camp could not involve removing Aboriginal people from their homes.

Imagine if our government went in and started doing that in, say, Limerick among traveling communities. I think if the Irish defense forces were helping to transfer Travelers to a camp in wherever, it would be said Travelers are being removed from their homes. Or natives of Tralee, or GAA supporters, or Conga Line dancers from Cork, or whatever specified group the army was helping transfer to quarantine camps.

Anyway here is someone actually there and a spokesperson. Give her the benefit of the doubt, won't ya. You are so good at it. :lol:

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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#8

Post by Scotty »

isha wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:38 am Very grateful for your indulgence, Scotty. :roll:

I do not know how transferring positive cases and close contacts among Aboriginal people to a quarantine camp could not involve removing Aboriginal people from their homes.

Imagine if our government went in and started doing that in, say, Limerick among traveling communities. I think if the Irish defense forces were helping to transfer Travelers to a camp in wherever, it would be said Travelers are being removed from their homes. Or natives of Tralee, or GAA supporters, or Conga Line dancers from Cork, or whatever specified group the army was helping transfer to quarantine camps.

Anyway here is someone actually there and a spokesperson. Give her the benefit of the doubt, won't ya. You are so good at it. :lol:
You know exactly what you are doing. You're not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes.
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#9

Post by PureIsle »

Scotty wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:20 am Isha I had been giving you the benefit of doubt but it's clear you are purposely twisting and misquoting what was said in the article to make it look more sinister than it is.

What the defence forces were actually requested to do was "help with transferring positive cases and close contacts". This is VERY VERY different to "removing Aborigines from their homes". You're making it sound like there's some kind of ethnic cleansing going on. It's not.
From where did the defence forces transfer those people?
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#10

Post by isha »

PureIsle wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:52 am From where did the defence forces transfer those people?
Remember, it is also because of an excess of paternalistic kindness that the unvaccinated are not allowed in pubs/cafes in Ireland. ;)
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#11

Post by isha »



More local people speaking up. I do not agree with the speaker that there is genocidal intent in any of this - that is not my buzz at all. It is verifiably over-reach and authoritarianism, as we are seeing in many places in the world, but there is not a bigger conspiracy as far as I know. Just weirdness. But the idea that local Indigenous people are welcoming what is going on in the Northern Territories, that the NT govt are being universally applauded for the kind ''assistance'' of the army etc, is a flat out lie.
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#12

Post by Scotty »

PureIsle wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:52 am From where did the defence forces transfer those people?
Correct, 'transfer those people', not 'remove the Aborigines'. I'm glad you see the difference.
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#13

Post by PureIsle »

PureIsle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:52 am
From where did the defence forces transfer those people?
Scotty wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:51 pm Correct, 'transfer those people', not 'remove the Aborigines'. I'm glad you see the difference.
So you refuse to answer the question.
That is very telling to all who read it.

The conclusion must therefore be that they were "transferred" from their homes and you will not admit that.
"Transferred" under military escort I should emphasise.
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#14

Post by Scotty »

PureIsle wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:26 pm So you refuse to answer the question.
That is very telling to all who read it.

The conclusion must therefore be that they were "transferred" from their homes and you will not admit that.
"Transferred" under military escort I should emphasise.
Where they were being transferred from was never in question. But you know that.

You have completely and purposely misrepresented what was said in the article and you've both seriously tarnished your credibility.
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#15

Post by Scotty »

isha wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:38 am Anyway here is someone actually there and a spokesperson. Give her the benefit of the doubt, won't ya. You are so good at it. :lol:
Sure that could be the local Gemma O'D for all I know.
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isha
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Aboriginal "Transfers" to Quarantine

#16

Post by isha »

Scotty wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:50 pm you've both seriously tarnished your credibility.

:roll:

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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#17

Post by PureIsle »

Scotty wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:50 pm Where they were being transferred from was never in question. But you know that.

You have completely and purposely misrepresented what was said in the article and you've both seriously tarnished your credibility.
...... and so the question continues unanswered and attempts to deflect from it have failed.

Not working!
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#18

Post by Scotty »

PureIsle wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:40 pm ...... and so the question continues unanswered and attempts to deflect from it have failed.

Guardian Article. wrote:The Northern Territory’s Covid-19 outbreak is expected to grow beyond locked-down areas after nine new cases were detected in the remote community of Binjari, about 320km south of Darwin.

Binjari and nearby Rockhole have been placed into strict lockdown in response to the outbreak, and the Australian defence force has been called in to help with transferring positive cases and close contacts.

The NT’s chief minister, Michael Gunner, on Sunday said a 78-year-old woman was being treated in Royal Darwin hospital, while the other eight cases had been taken to the Howard Springs quarantine centre.
The article doesn't specify. Could be their local health centre, could be their homes, could be the side of the road, I don't know. What was your point?
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PureIsle
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#19

Post by PureIsle »

Scotty wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:12 pm The article doesn't specify. Could be their local health centre, could be their homes, could be the side of the road, I don't know. What was your point?
OK, so they could very well have been 'transferred' from their homes, so your bone of contention then is between the use of "removed" and the use of "transferred" by military personnel.

Where there is military personnel involved, and the "transfer" is against the wishes of those being "transferred", it seems to me there is little, if any, difference between "transfer" and "remove".
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Scotty
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Re: Aboriginal Transfers to Quarantine

#20

Post by Scotty »

PureIsle wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:20 pm OK, so they could very well have been 'transferred' from their homes, so your bone of contention then is between the use of "removed" and the use of "transferred" by military personnel.

Where there is military personnel involved, and the "transfer" is against the wishes of those being "transferred", it seems to me there is little, if any, difference between "transfer" and "remove".
Nowhere in the article cited by Isha does it suggest they were transferred against their will. Stop making stuff up.
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PureIsle
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Re: Aboriginal Transfers to Quarantine

#21

Post by PureIsle »

Mountain wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:01 am Yet again the race card played, yet again lies, yet again misinformation.

They are dealing with an outbreak in a community that happens to be largely indigenous Australian. The have asked for help in removing people, not solely aboriginal people. The article itself notes...

Some of the territory’s key Indigenous bodies gave their backing to Gunner’s handling of the outbreak on Sunday.

Can anti vaxxers just not tell it as it is. For once. Go on, try it.
Can you tell me if it is common practice in Australia at this time to remove/transfer Australians from their communities/homes to quarantine camps which were set up to quarantine travellers into Australia?
Mountain
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Re: Aboriginal Transfers to Quarantine

#22

Post by Mountain »

PureIsle wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:08 pm Can you tell me if it is common practice in Australia at this time to remove/transfer Australians from their communities/homes to quarantine camps which were set up to quarantine travellers into Australia?
Of course it's not a common practice. It's a very drastic measure affecting very specific locations, my reading of the article is that 10 Australians were transferred from 2 rural communities, 5 men and 5 women.
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isha
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Re: Aboriginal Transfers to Quarantine

#23

Post by isha »

Questions are -
Do members of other communities have to go to Howard's Springs if they catch Covid or are close contacts?

Do members of other communities distant from hospitals also have to go to HS? There are a lot of people who live in remote areas in Australia - do they all have to go to a quarantine camp if they get Covid or are a close contact?

Would a health centre set up within a community experiencing Covid not be better for people who are notoriously attached to their lands and wary of land grabs?

At present those communities are experiencing a very severe lockdown - to the point they are not allowed leave their homes for ANY reason besides medical necessity.

Do members of other communities have to be transferred by defense forces vehicles?

How did travelers quarantining at HS previously get to the camp? By army vehicle?

38 people from Indigenous communities have been brought to HS, people with Covid, and those who are close contacts - why did such a small number require the administration to request defense forces assistance?

Some people from these communities may be thrilled to go to HS - are all?
Not according to members of the communities in videos I posted earlier. Not all are happy to go. Some yes, because there is no hive mind.

If it happened in another country to a specific minority I would have these questions also. On the face of it, it is not a good look, especially given the noted and widely-known resistance in the Indigenous communities to Covid vaccines.

I do not know the answers to these questions, but in time a clearer story will emerge.
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Scotty
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Re: Aboriginal Transfers to Quarantine

#24

Post by Scotty »

This is one of the towns, Binjari. Not exactly a bustling metropolis. Dust roads, no asphalt. I suspect the army have been tasked with moving these people is down to a lack of public transport and private cars. It's the middle of the Northern Territory. The towns are so remote the doctors fly from one town to another.

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Scotty
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Re: Aboriginal Transfers to Quarantine

#25

Post by Scotty »

isha wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:59 pm Some people from these communities may be thrilled to go to HS - are all?
Not according to members of the communities in videos I posted earlier.
A local singer/musician. Who claims children are 'being knocked down' and injected on the street.

I can't find any other sources to back her up. Can you?
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