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Vaccine megathread

All things COVID
kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1001

Post by kadman »

I heard from locals in the area where i was tested, that they were going in for tests whether they needed them or not, exactly to get the free masks :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Maybe they should have given away a vaccine too for free :lol:
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1002

Post by schmittel »

Donnelly was on Newstalk this morning saying that over 80% of those who end up in ICU have underlying health issues, which I wasn’t surprised by.

It did make me wonder about the profile of the other 20%.

We’re often told the majority of people in ICU are unvaccinated. But what proportion of those in ICU without underlying health issues are unvaccinated? Has anybody seen these figures anywhere?
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1003

Post by isha »

schmittel wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:01 pm Donnelly was on Newstalk this morning saying that over 80% of those who end up in ICU have underlying health issues, which I wasn’t surprised by.

It did make me wonder about the profile of the other 20%.

We’re often told the majority of people in ICU are unvaccinated. But what proportion of those in ICU without underlying health issues are unvaccinated? Has anybody seen these figures anywhere?
I have not seen a break down of the 20% but this is a breakdown of the 80%

Image
kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1004

Post by kadman »

schmittel wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:01 pm Donnelly was on Newstalk this morning saying that over 80% of those who end up in ICU have underlying health issues, which I wasn’t surprised by.

It did make me wonder about the profile of the other 20%.

We’re often told the majority of people in ICU are unvaccinated. But what proportion of those in ICU without underlying health issues are unvaccinated? Has anybody seen these figures anywhere?
But I thought the majority of the population with underlying health conditions were vaccinated first??
How is it that the same cohort are now the bigger occupants of the hospitals.

On another note, I was contacted today by the hospital for my procedure this Friday. They asked me was I vaccinated I said no, and they did not run for cover either. they just said thats fine, how are you feeling, and I said fine as I had a PCR test and the results are negaitve.
Their only response was, thats great, as it saves us testing you again before your procedure , see you Friday.

Why cant the rest of society be allowed to treat unvaccinated in a similar fashion. After all, blaming the unvaccinated is surely running out of steam now.
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1005

Post by isha »

kadman wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:31 pm After all, blaming the unvaccinated is surely running out of steam now.

Austria says not.

Although I have seen some hint that the armed forces are bucking a bit under their instructions. Will wait and see if it is not just crazy rumours.
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The Continental Op
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1006

Post by The Continental Op »

Hmmmm, maybe I'm not fully "woke" up to day yet but I'd never have thought that "Pregnant" was an underlying medical condition?

It is however an understandable reason for women not to be vaccinated.
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1007

Post by PureIsle »

So the FDA do not want to release the data they got from Pfizer immediately. They are seeking from the courts to be able to drip feed the documents over the next 55 years.

Yes you read that right ...... Fifty Five Years!

This article refers

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/fda-as ... ished=true


and this is the court document

https://www.sirillp.com/wp-content/uplo ... 78006e.pdf
"Plaintiff respectfully requests that the Court enter an order requiring the FDA to produce
all documents and data submitted by Pfizer on a rolling basis such that all of it shall be produced
on or before March 3, 2022, which is 108 days from today. To require less is to render FOIA
meaningless, the FDA’s promise of transparency a lie, and to send a signal to every American that
while the federal executive branch is shielding Pfizer from any liability for injuries from its product
and requiring employers, schools, hospitals and the military to expel those that don’t receive this
product, it is protecting the very documents Pfizer provided to our taxpayer-funded health agency
to obtain licensure to be able to sell this product. That simply should not be and highlights why
FOIA and equity demand the relief Plaintiff requests herein. "
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1008

Post by schmittel »

Leo doing his best to spark a witch-hunt:
“It is a difficult situation, things were going so well. I think as a nation we’re a little bit heartbroken that we’re back into a difficult space when it comes to Covid. We do have among the highest vaccinations rates in the world, around 94pc of adults are fully vaccinated.

“Unfortunately, the 5pc that are not are causing a lot of the trouble, about 5pc are not fully vaccinated but about 50pc of people in hospital and ICU are not fully vaccinated. So even that 5pc can create an awful lot of difficulty,” he said.
Always thought Leo was a pretty canny politician, but I think he's painting himself into a corner here. He goes on to say:
“It’s very evident now that immunity from the vaccine is waning and we can see that across Europe and that’s why we’re going to need to give people a third dose. I would anticipate that we’ll offer the third dose to everyone, as has been the case in other countries,” he added.
Leaving aside the fact that it is very evident the vaccine never offered any immunity, and taking him at face value: if vaccine is waning then and everybody needs a booster, presumably those who do not take it are thus not fully vaccinated?

So if he is going to blame the current problems on the 5% unvaccinated, he'd want to be pretty sure that the take up rate for the third shot will be 95%. And the fourth, and the fifth, and the sixth etc etc.

If not his 5% will grow pretty rapidly into a % that it would be politically unwise to blame.
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1009

Post by PureIsle »

“It’s very evident now that immunity from the vaccine is waning and we can see that across Europe and that’s why we’re going to need to give people a third dose. I would anticipate that we’ll offer the third dose to everyone, as has been the case in other countries,” he added.
If it is only NOW evident then please explain why injection doses for next year and the year after that were ordered by his government months ago.

It is almost all lies, with a small bit of truth thrown in to confuse and persuade.
kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1010

Post by kadman »

Seems like Leo might have a job on his hands to convince people to get successive boosters,
if this is anything to go by
Up to half the people with appointments for Covid-19 booster shots in some vaccinations centres are not showing up as the Covid-19 crisis worsens with significant cancellation of surgeries due in hospitals, HSE chief Paul Reid warned today.

He said vaccination booster shot “no shows” can range from 25pc to 50pc.

Mr Reid said :”The more people who show up for their booster the less we will see in hospital.”
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1011

Post by schmittel »

kadman wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:18 pm Seems like Leo might have a job on his hands to convince people to get successive boosters,
if this is anything to go by
that is very interesting if there is already booster hesitancy, since presumably those currently in line to get boosters are most vulnerable. And healthcare workers. That would suggest that hesitancy will increase as they move through the age cohorts.

Something else struck me as odd in the article. One the bold sub headlines at the top is "Around 54pc of Covid patients in ICU are unvaccinated"

But then in the body of the article it says: "Unvaccinated patients are occupying one in five intensive care beds."

So if the unvaccinated are occupying one in five ICU beds, or 20%, where are the other 34%?

On the floor probably.
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1012

Post by isha »

schmittel wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:32 pm

So if the unvaccinated are occupying one in five ICU beds, or 20%, where are the other 34%?

On the floor probably.
That made me chuckle.

I had a feeling (brief but fairly intense!) of terrible crossness at that pr1ck Leo Varadkar yesterday for his incitements to hatred. The vaccine is not doing what they hoped or insisted it would, and so he is riling people up against the unclean.

Himself saw this yesterday. He got the J&J in August or maybe early September, so as he said he must be due a booster now (mid 50s).
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ ... -1.4732377

But he says they can get fcuked, he is joining me on the dark side where the monsters live. For a week after the shot he had nausea like car sickness, and then for 2 more weeks he had hot flashes, where he felt suddenly warm and sweaty out of the blue. Eventually he felt fine but he said he is not doing it again.

I'd say there may be a good few feeling that way. Fit strong people who did not enjoy feeling off after their various doses, which for some of them they had reluctantly taken thinking they would just bite the bullet and do it to stop the endless pressure.
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1013

Post by isha »

From February 2022 covid vaccine will be mandatory for all in Austria.
From The Guardian
Austria is to become the first European country to make vaccinations against Covid 19 mandatory, and will go into its third nationwide lockdown for at least 10 days from Monday, the chancellor, Alexander Schallenberg, has announced.

The government said it was preparing the legal groundwork for a general vaccine mandate to come into effect from 1 February, with exemptions for those unable to receive a jab on medical grounds.

Those refusing to be vaccinated are likely to face administrative fines, which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine cannot be recovered.
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1014

Post by isha »

I will go to jail before I would ever submit to this tyranny if the covid gene therapy ever becomes mandated here. Willingly.

I am shocked.
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1015

Post by schmittel »

isha wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:41 pm I will go to jail before I would ever submit to this tyranny if the covid gene therapy ever becomes mandated here. Willingly.

I am shocked.
Certainly seems to be the way the wind is blowing, but I think mandatory vaccines here would be on pretty shaky legal grounds. It would undoubtedly be challenged in the courts, which would delay the process, and I suspect defeat the idea entirely.
JONJO THE MISER
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1016

Post by JONJO THE MISER »

Yeah it will definitely be against the constitution here.
Anyways I would go to jail no problem and be proud to.
2u2me
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1017

Post by 2u2me »

Germany introducing "2 G" Rule that effectively excludes all unvaccinated from public events when the hospitalization rate reaches a certain threshold.

According to the states and government, only vaccinated or recovered people will be allowed to access leisure, cultural and sporting events, hospitality venues as well as to body-related services and hotels when the Covid situation in hospitals gets worse.

The measures are to take effect – if they have not already done so – when the hospitalisation rate for an area rises above the benchmark value of three. This figure describes the number of Covid-19 patients admitted to hospitals per 100,000 population over a seven-day period.


Honestly I thought Germany would be the last place to introduce 'papers please' types of restrictions.
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1018

Post by schmittel »

I think Leo has a bit of a cheek condemning the unvaccinated, saying that they are causing all the trouble in ICU. I think he should acknowledge the part he has played in creating an awful lot of the difficulty:

Image

So both our Taoiseach and Tanaiste are former Health Ministers, yet they reckon the current pressure on ICU is the fault of 5% of the population?

Source: OECD
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1019

Post by isha »

I have been looking at some nerdy peoples maths on unvaccinated vs vaccinated in ICU, and there seems to be some idea emerging that about 70% of unvaccinated in Irish ICUs are also immuno compromised and not suitable candidates for vaccination.
It is to do with the 81% immuno compromised, 95% of jabbed immunocompromised as per Stephen Donnelly, 52% of ICU unvaxxed, and 48% vaccinated. And sums that I missing a part of.
See if you can work it out from this example. I dont know where the 38% came from, might be really obvious, but I also did not sleep well!

schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1020

Post by schmittel »

isha wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:39 pm I have been looking at some nerdy peoples maths on unvaccinated vs vaccinated in ICU, and there seems to be some idea emerging that about 70 -75% of unvaccinated in Irish ICUs are also immuno compromised and not suitable candidates for vaccination.
It is to do with the 81% immuno compromised, 95% of jabbed immunocompromised as per Stephen Donnelly, 52% of ICU unvaxxed, and 48% vaccinated. And sums that I missing a part of.
See if you can work it out from this example. I dont know where the 38% came from, might be really obvious, but I also did not sleep well!

I did some of this (amateur rather than nerdy) maths myself and worked it out to be much higher than 38% - on phone at the minute but will post sums later if anybody is interested. Worth bearing in mind though that not every underlying condition means you cannot get a vaccine.

It my differ depending what numbers he used as in ICU. I used the vaccine surveillance report from October to November.

What I could not find was any accurate figures of actual numbers of unvaccinated. Sure we know it is 5% of population over 18 but what is that figure?. i.e how many of the population are over 18?
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1021

Post by isha »

schmittel wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:01 pm I did some of this (amateur rather than nerdy) maths myself and worked it out to be much higher than 38% - on phone at the minute but will post sums later if anybody is interested. Worth bearing in mind though that not every underlying condition means you cannot get a vaccine.

I am interested.
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1022

Post by schmittel »

isha wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:12 pmI am interested.
Sure, will post it later. Just rereading his tweet I realise I misunderstood the 38% first time round, and his figures would be broadly similiar to mine. When I said much higher I meant % of the unjabbed that are immunocompromised, rather than % of ICU that are unjabbed and immunocompromised as he says.
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1023

Post by PureIsle »

Several people trotted out on TV warning about the pressure on ICU beds and hinting 'something' must be done.
It turns out that 50% of our ICU bed capacity is used country wide, for all patients.
Some locations are at or near their local capacity ...... Limerick today I think.
But overall we are not near capacity.
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1024

Post by PureIsle »

A Lancet publication about "pandemic of the unvaccinated"

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... lltext#%20
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1025

Post by schmittel »

Here are figures, with the caveat I'm no mathematician!

I used the vaccine surveillance report published weekly by the HSPC - annoyingly they don't leave links up to previous weeks, but I had a saved copy from the October 16th issue:
Screenshot 2021-11-19 at 20.14.53.png
Screenshot 2021-11-19 at 20.14.53.png (168.16 KiB) Viewed 48 times
With both of these reports we can compare the situation from October 16th - November 13th eg subtracting the 438 ICU admissions reported to Oct 16th from the 589 reported to November tells us that there were 151 ICU admissions between these two dates.

Of the 151:

71 unvaccinated
68 vaccine breakthroughs/fully vaccinated
12 partially vaccinated

121 with underlying conditions (80.5%)

Of the 121:

65 vaccine breakthroughs/fully vaccinated
thus 121 - 65:
56 unvaccinated

Thus 56/151 = 37% are "unjabbed and immunocompromised" as per your man's tweet. Not too far off his 38%

In fairness to the vaccine it is striking that of the non underlying conditions 27/30 or 90% of them are unvaccinated, clearly showing that if you have no underlying conditions the vaccine is working at reducing your likelihood to end up in ICU. I was surprised at this. based n the UK figures I expected this to be fairly evenly split between vexed and unvaxxed.

But the figures also show, assuming you accept that even pre-Covid it is kind of obvious to expect that the immunocompromised would be disproportionately represented in ICU, then this pandemic of the unvaccinated nonsense is a bit disingenuous.

If you're going to engage in finger wagging it really should be directed at the 27 unvaccinated people without underlying conditions.

Or to put it another way, 18% of the people in ICU. But that probably would not make for quite so catchy headlines.
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