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Vaccine megathread

All things COVID
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1101

Post by isha »

Mountain, I am entitled to an opinion that is different to yours, on any topic. All day long.
And you are not entitled to engage in repeated personalised sneering commentary about my opinions.
I am not presenting misinformation. I deliberately shy away from controversial material and have challenged posters ''on my side'' who have posted misinformation.
Regarding the situation in Australia you cannot deduce that because a 'committee' has approved, that all people in that area are happy. Google June Mills, well-known Indigenous leader in the area, she is most definitely not happy. And is claiming forced vaccination of children in the Northern Territories.
Knock it off with your substance-light, snarky ad hominens.

PS a Pfizer employee did blow a whistle - and the British Medical Journal published about it. ;)
2u2me
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1102

Post by 2u2me »

The Continental Op wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:52 am Did a quick search for that and most of the first page of results came back with results like this

Japan has not approved ivermectin as Covid-19 treatment
Well yes the media and fact-checkers like to abuse the truth alot. My initial claims was that doctor's are allowed to prescribe the medicine. The fact-check claim technically is true "Japan has not approved ivermectin as Covid-19 treatment" They haven't officially endorsed it. The endorsement came from a private body, Haruo Ozaki of the Tokyo Medical Association.

Ivermectin was allowed as a treatment in Japan after the recommendation on August 13th. 2 weeks later the cases plummeted. Might not just be the ivermectin though(correlation isn't necessarily causation and all that), lets see when more information is available.
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1103

Post by PureIsle »

Dr. John Campbell looks at the plummeting of cases in Japan. He asks if this could be due to Ivermectin or something else



I think the time line defeats the idea that IVM could be the cause.
Only 12/14 days or so, from an indication to doctors that IVM 'could' be used, to this dramatic fall in infections, is not really believable.

He says he should have further information today on the *possible* involvement of IVM ......... I look forward to his information being made public.
(from about 2mins 10 secs in)
Last edited by PureIsle on Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1104

Post by schmittel »

Mountain wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:21 am The poster knows that very well. S/he has to, it's there in the article. S/he has deliberately misrepresented what it contains. It's not the first time on this thread. This site has whole anti vaxx threads that are based on misinformation, Pfizer Employee Blows Whistle type stuff.

I guess it's an inevitable by product when the argument really amounts to science v anti science, experts v people who have started googling this stuff in the past 18 months and think they're experts.
Ah, the two straws of misinformation and anti science to clutch at in one post.

I read an interesting piece by John P.A. Ioannidis entitled How the Pandemic Is Changing the Norms of Science. He is Professor of Medicine and Professor of Epidemiology and Population Health, as well as Professor (by courtesy) of Biomedical Science and Statistics, at Stanford University, so I assume you'd agree he's an expert rather than somebody who started googling this stuff in the past 18 months.
Consultants who made millions of dollars from corporate and government consultation were given prestigious positions, power, and public praise, while unconflicted scientists who worked pro bono but dared to question dominant narratives were smeared as being conflicted. Organized skepticism was seen as a threat to public health. There was a clash between two schools of thought, authoritarian public health versus science—and science lost.

Honest, continuous questioning and exploration of alternative paths are indispensable for good science. In the authoritarian (as opposed to participatory) version of public health, these activities were seen as treason and desertion
Must admit I am getting pretty tired hearing people high horse about science and misinformation, when those same people can't seem to grasp that redefining the measure of vaccine success from immunity to protecting from severe disease is both blatant anti science and misinformation.
Guburnor
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1105

Post by Guburnor »

MOD NOTE: As the transfers and quarantine in Australia are quite the burning issue of the day I have split the posts to a new thread
It could be quite an interesting topic for discussion if we could get past the petty stuff.
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1106

Post by Scotty »

Good news and bad news coming from the latest data from Israel based on 83,000 test results of vaccinated people- https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-067873

The bad news, the vaccines wain over time. But we knew that.

The good news, the vaccines give strong protection against breakthrough infections particularly for the over 60's for whom the vaccines wain slower and still offers some protection even after 6 months.


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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1107

Post by isha »

Other news from Israel yesterday, talk of the third dose waning and talk of imposition of new restrictions if cases continue rising - in a country with 4 million of total population of 9 million having received third or booster shot.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/exp ... 1.10410409
The expert health panel advising Israel's government believes that another COVID wave is on the horizon in light of waning vaccine effectiveness

Prof. Eran Segal from the Weizmann Institute made a presentation on Tuesday in front of the coronavirus cabinet in which he argued that the level of immunity has fallen since November, and that this is reflected by the rise in the number of new confirmed cases.
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/cor ... ave-686789
Coronavirus commissioner Salman Zarka warned that Israel may need to declare a fifth wave of the coronavirus outbreak soon as the R-number continues to rise and the Hanukkah holiday draws near, during a meeting of the coronavirus cabinet on Tuesday evening.
Prof. Eran Segal warned that since the beginning of November, the level immunity among the Israeli population has begun to fall as more time passes since people received the first two doses. "This decline is going to continue unless we intervene and continue to vaccinate," said Segal, pointing to a decrease in adherence to guidelines and a decrease in vaccination as the reasons behind the decline.
Segal added that the effectiveness of the booster may also be decreasing.
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1108

Post by PureIsle »

"This decline is going to continue unless we intervene and continue to vaccinate," said Segal, pointing to a decrease in adherence to guidelines and a decrease in vaccination as the reasons behind the decline.
It appears in Israel too that the problem is caused by the people.
kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1109

Post by kadman »

All the infected doctors responding well with Ivermectin..
Seven anti-vaccine doctors fell sick after gathering earlier this month for a Florida “summit” at which alternative treatments for Covid-19 were discussed.
A worker puts bags of sweet potatoes in a container in the warehouse of the Alameda County Community Food Bank in Oakland, Calif., on Nov. 5, 2021. U.S. food banks dealing with increased demand from families sidelined by the pandemic now face a new challenge – surging food prices and supply chain issues. As holidays approach, some food banks worry they won't have enough turkeys, stuffing and cranberry sauce for Thanksgiving and Christmas. (AP Photo/Terry Chea)
US asks court to immediately lift stay on workplace vaccine rule
Read more

“I have been on ivermectin for 16 months, my wife and I,” Dr Bruce Boros told the audience at the event held at the World Equestrian Center in Ocala, adding: “I have never felt healthier in my life.”

The 71-year-old cardiologist and staunch anti-vaccine advocate contracted Covid-19 two days later, according to the head event organizer, Dr John Littell.

Littell, an Ocala family physician, also told the Daily Beast six other doctors among 800 to 900 participants at the event also tested positive or developed Covid-19 symptoms “within days of the conference”.

Littell raised the suggestion the conference was therefore a super-spreader event but rejected it, vehemently saying: “No.

“I think they had gotten it from New York or Michigan or wherever they were from,” he told the Beast. “It was really the people who flew in from other places.”

He also said: “Everybody so far has responded to treatment with ivermectin … Bruce is doing well.”

The Beast said sources close to Boros said he was gravely ill at his Key West home.

Ivermectin is an antiparasitic which has uses in humans but is predominantly used in livestock such as cows and horses. Authorities say it has no proven use against Covid-19 and can be dangerous if taken in large quantities. The US Food and Drug Administration has not authorized or approved ivermectin as a Covid treatment and has said clinical trials are continuing.

Boros has claimed ivermectin is “working where it’s being used around the world” as a Covid treatment.

In the same Facebook post, he condemned Dr Anthony Fauci, Joe Biden’s chief medical adviser, as “a fraud” and said “big pharma is playing us for suckers”.

In a July interview with Florida Keys Weekly, Boros responded to criticisms of his post, saying: “It breaks my heart that a town like this has made something so political and hateful. What’s wrong with people? I just want to help patients and keep them from dying.”

He also claimed that he gave a seriously ill Covid-19 patient ivermectin and “within six hours he was talking without coughing”.

At the summit in Ocala, Boros criticized his 97-year-old father for getting a Covid vaccine, saying: “He had been brainwashed … He got it. He didn’t tell me. I was very upset. I wanted to give him a spanking. He got both jabs.”

Earlier this year, a significant study supporting ivermectin as a Covid-19 treatment was withdrawn after data was found to have been falsified and patients nonexistent.
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1110

Post by Scotty »

“I have been on ivermectin for 16 months, my wife and I,” Dr Bruce Boros told the audience at the event held at the World Equestrian Center in Ocala, adding: “I have never felt healthier in my life.”
:lol: :lol: :lol:
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1111

Post by schmittel »

Happy New Year kids, roll your sleeves up and get your experimental vaccine quick before we ostracise you too.

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) has approved the use of the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in children aged between five and 11.
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1112

Post by Scotty »

schmittel wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:43 pm Happy New Year kids, roll your sleeves up and get your experimental vaccine quick before we ostracise you too.

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) has approved the use of the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in children aged between five and 11.
Next step mandatory vaccination. It's coming.
kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1113

Post by kadman »

Scotty wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:14 pm :lol: :lol: :lol:
I dont understand how you can have a laugh at anybody who has just got this disease, i really dont.
I feel sorry for the doctors and their families :shock:
kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1114

Post by kadman »

Another DR has grave concerns over the vaccine.. just came across this so I have not had time to look further.
TrialSite recently showcased a California physician and whistleblower represented by attorney Aaron Siri with the law firm Siri & Glimstad LLP. Siri wrote a letter to both the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on behalf of their client Dr. Patricia Lee, an ICU physician and surgeon, who has had the unfortunate experience of treating many COVID-19 vaccine-injured patients. In a letter addressed to CBER Director Dr. Peter Marks and the COVID-19 Vaccine Task Force Deputy Director Dr. Tom Shimabukuro, Siri raised attention to serious claims. Specifically, the letter stated that both critical public health-related agencies are ignoring pleas from Dr. Patricia Lee to investigate the catastrophic effects of the COVID-19 vaccines on some of her patients. In the 15 years Dr. Lee has practiced medicine, she has never seen the level of adverse events she now observes with the COVID-19 vaccines. Now in his latest blog writing, Siri declares that the “CDC Admits Crushing Rights of Naturally Immune Without Proof They Transmit the Virus.”
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1115

Post by schmittel »

Scotty wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:57 pm Next step mandatory vaccination. It's coming.
No doubt it's being proposed, and no doubt there are plenty such as yourself who support the idea. But there is equally no doubt plenty will be against it and some of those will challenge it.

Cannot see it standing up to the inevitable legal scrutiny to be honest.
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1116

Post by isha »

Main thing about all mandatory vaccine proposals/attempts is to keep a list of those who propose and support them. So you can know for future reference who you should never give a hoot (or vote) about their opinion or moral stance on anything, ever again.
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1117

Post by schmittel »

isha wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:12 pm Main thing about all mandatory vaccine proposals/attempts is to keep a list of those who propose and support them. So you can know for future reference who you should never give a hoot (or vote) about their opinion or moral stance on anything, ever again.
Most of the support I've seen from the idea is from ultra pro vaccine Joe Public, like Scotty for example. I can't see too many politicians of weight getting behind it to be honest.

Though I do recall a supportive comment from Simon Harris re mandatory vaccines when he was health minister. But that was when the yardstick for vaccination was immunity.

I'll be interested to hear what he thinks on the subject for this new vaccine, so groundbreaking it has literally redefined the meaning of vaccination.
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Banshee Bones
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1118

Post by Banshee Bones »

isha wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:02 pm Also there is a lot pf mumbling going on at the moment about lockdown but I think it would be a very bad move. For a start the ICU is NOT as pressurised as it was last January. The HSE has also not provided proper expansion of capacity and now the public will be once more punished for that mismanagement. And lastly I think cases have possibly peaked in this wave so shutting down now will falsely make it look like shutdown works while destroying society.
People who are vulnerable should mostly stay home or limit social engagements. Not because I want to be mean to them, but protecting the vulnerable is the logical way through this. I am not vulnerable but I bloody well am staying home mostly. That is what people do naturally when disease increases - there is absolutely no need to destroy the lives and mental well-being of resilient younger people who are trying to work, socialise, mate, have the craic and be normal.

Ah no just follow the science, Nphet are the science. They wouldnt be scaremongering

If we're not living in a complete dystopia by the end of this, the analysis of who got it wrong and who lied will be interesting

Not that it will make a difference in Ireland. If we had accountability Holohan would been out on his arse after the cervical check scandal, instead he's now the third Taoiseach.
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1119

Post by Scotty »

schmittel wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:22 pm Most of the support I've seen from the idea is from ultra pro vaccine Joe Public, like Scotty for example.
Absolutely. The figures prove it. The unvaccinated are 120 times higher risk to healthcare/lockdown than the vaccinated.

Sure it was yourself that highlighted that with your drill down of last months figures. The 5% unvaccinated of the population making up 27 of only 30 in ICU with no underlying conditions.

As soon as all avenues are exhausted, and they will be really once the >4's can be jabbed, then the next time there's a threat of lockdown, probably not for 12 months though, it will be a push for mandatory vaccines. When Joe public is given a choice of going into Lv5 lockdown again, back on social, 5km travel restrictions, etc, etc, etc, or forcing his unvaccinated neighbour to get the jab, which way do you think he's going to go?
Last edited by Scotty on Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1120

Post by isha »

Third Taoiseach did make me laugh. :D
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1121

Post by schmittel »

Scotty wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:39 pm Absolutely. The figures prove it. The unvaccinated are 120 times higher risk to healthcare/lockdown than the vaccinated.

Sure it was yourself that highlighted that with your drill down of last months figures. The 5% unvaccinated of the population making up 27 of only 30 in ICU with no underlying conditions.

As soon as all avenues are exhausted, and they will be really once the >4's can be jabbed, then the next time there's a threat of lockdown, probably not for 12 months though, it will be a push for mandatory vaccines. When Joe public is given a choice of going into Lv5 lockdown again, back on social, 5km travel restrictions, etc, etc, etc, or forcing his unvaccinated neighbour to get the jab, which way do you think he's going to go?
I wouldn't be so sure. Joe Public might be keen to force experimental vaccines on his neighbour, but I can't see too many senior politicians, never mind judges sharing your enthusiasm.
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1122

Post by PureIsle »

As a follow-up to my post
viewtopic.php?f=5&p=19154#p19016

I checked John Campbell's site today and today's video is about "Gibraltar and Europe"
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF9IOB ... IBupFtBDxg

There is no mention of his 'further information' he said he would post today, regarding the reduction in Covid in Japan.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, he has some hours left, but it seems doubtful he will post two videos in one day.
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Banshee Bones
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1123

Post by Banshee Bones »

Scotty wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:39 pm Absolutely. The figures prove it. The unvaccinated are 120 times higher risk to healthcare/lockdown than the vaccinated.

Sure it was yourself that highlighted that with your drill down of last months figures. The 5% unvaccinated of the population making up 27 of only 30 in ICU with no underlying conditions.

As soon as all avenues are exhausted, and they will be really once the >4's can be jabbed, then the next time there's a threat of lockdown, probably not for 12 months though, it will be a push for mandatory vaccines. When Joe public is given a choice of going into Lv5 lockdown again, back on social, 5km travel restrictions, etc, etc, etc, or forcing his unvaccinated neighbour to get the jab, which way do you think he's going to go?
When all the avenues are exhausted (and they now have been) we may have to admit that we just have to live with this virus. Or we can look for scapegoats rather than admit that vaccinations and lockdowns did not lead us to the sunlit uplands

When Joe Public is told he's going into lockdown 50 unless the fatties and old people are kept to indoors to save the HSE and flatten the curve which way is he going to go?

It's interesting to observe those who relish the prospect of turning people on each other. Informative even.
kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1124

Post by kadman »

Now that we have the go ahead for vaccinating younger children, I think parents will be frantic when they read the likes of these recent reports,
Open AccessCase Report
Autoantibody Release in Children after Corona Virus mRNA Vaccination: A Risk Factor of Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome?
by Reiner Buchhorn
1,2,*, Carlotta Meyer
3, Kai Schulze-Forster
3, Juliane Junker
3 and Harald Heidecke
3
1
Department of Pediatrics, Caritas-Krankenhaus Bad Mergentheim, Uhlandstraße 7, 97980 Bad Mergentheim, Germany
2
Praxis für Kinder- und Jugendmedizin, Kinderkardiologie und Erwachsene Mit Angeborenen Herzfehlern, Am Bahnhof 1, 74670 Forchtenberg, Germany
3
CellTrend GmbH, 14943 Luckenwalde, Germany
*
Author to whom correspondence should be addressed.
Academic Editors: Federico Pratesi, P. Veeranna Ravindra and Prashant Chikkahonnaiah
Vaccines 2021, 9(11), 1353; https://doi.org/10.3390/vaccines9111353
Received: 7 October 2021 / Revised: 13 November 2021 / Accepted: 15 November 2021 / Published: 18 November 2021
(This article belongs to the Special Issue Assessment of Post-COVID-19 Complications and Vaccination Efficacy)
Abstract
Multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS) is a new systemic inflammatory acute onset disease that mainly affects children (MIS-C) and, at a lesser frequency, adults (MIS-A); it typically occurs 3–6 weeks after acute SARS-CoV infection. It has been postulated and shown in adults that MIS may occur after SARS-CoV-2 vaccination (MIS-V). Our current case is one of the first published cases with a multisystem inflammatory syndrome in an 18-year-old adolescent after the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine from Pfizer/BionTech (BNT162b2), who fulfills the published level 1 criteria for a definitive disease: age < 21 years, fever > 3 consecutive days, pericardial effusion, elevated CRP/NT-BNP/Troponin T/D-dimeres, cardiac involvement, and positive SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The disease starts 10 weeks after the second vaccination, with a fever (up to 40 °C) and was treated with amoxicillin for suspected pneumonia. The SARS CoV-2-PCR and several antigen tests were negative. With an ongoing fever, he was hospitalized 14 days later. A pericardial effusion (10 mm) was diagnosed by echocardiography. The C-reactive protein (174 mg/L), NT-BNP (280 pg/mL), and Troponin T (28 pg/mL) values were elevated. Due to highly elevated D-dimeres (>35,000 μg/L), a pulmonary embolism was excluded by thoracal computer tomography. If the boy did not improve with intravenous antibiotics, he was treated with intravenous immunoglobulins; however, the therapy was discontinued after 230 mg/kg if he developed high fever and hypotension. A further specialized clinic treated him with colchicine and ibuprofen. The MIS-V was discovered late, 4 months after the onset of the disease. As recently shown in four children with MIS-C after SARS-CoV-2 infection and a girl with Hashimoto thyroiditis after BNT162b2 vaccination, we found elevated functional autoantibodies against G-protein-coupled receptors that may be important for pathophysiology but are not conclusive for the diagnosis of MIS-C. Conclusion: We are aware that a misattribution of MIS-V as a severe complication of coronavirus vaccination can lead to increased vaccine hesitancy and blunt the global COVID-19 vaccination drive. However, the pediatric population is at a higher risk for MIS-C and a very low risk for COVID-19 mortality. The publication of such cases is very important to make doctors aware of this complication of the vaccination, so that therapy with intravenous immunoglobulins can be initiated at an early stage. View Full-Text
Keywords: COVID-19; autoantibodies; children; multisystem inflammatory syndrome; SARS-CoV-2 vaccination; Hashimoto thyroiditis
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#1125

Post by schmittel »

If somebody wants to inject my five year old the law says they have to get my, or my wife's, consent. And to do that it would have to be a better job than just a few quick online tick boxes that was deemed sufficient for the adults.

No doubt they'd explain the risks, and stress that they are very small risks, but an important principle of informed consent is the rewards as well.

Would anybody in favour of vaccinating 5-11 year olds care to spell out the rewards to me? Whatever they are, they don't seem too obvious to me.
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