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Vaccine megathread

All things COVID
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#676

Post by isha »

Scotty wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:48 am I'd like to know where he got the information because I've been very interested to know this for a while (though I don't have time right now to review the info).
How many of ICU with covid would be in ICU even if they didn't have covid?
How many of the c.40 deaths this month with covid would have died when they did with or without covid?


This doesn't surprise me. I can't prove it and I'd deny it if asked but I know frontline staff who tested positive in the height of it and were told to come to work unless they were showing symptoms. I think the whole health service would have collapsed altogether otherwise. I suspect there'll be plenty of whistleblowers when the time comes.
I actually don't know where he got the stats, I checked earlier to see but he did not say. He does graphs on various things, like housing and economy etc, and I am just guessing he is basing it on some proper data. But could be wrong.

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kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#677

Post by kadman »

isha wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:29 am
Having said that I know from people I know going for elective surgeries at least that people are being tested before they are admitted.


Image

Also just going to add again my little excel of deaths this past month from Covid In Ireland and vaccination status. As it was ignored and I think it is very relevant to the situation.

Sept 11 - Oct 9.jpg
I was admitted to a midlands hospital recently, and sent to a Dublin hospital, and back again to the midlands.

I was tested on admission in the midlands, and again before being sent to Dublin. Tested again in Dublin on arrival, and again before they sent me back to the midlands. I was again tested again in the midlands before re admittance there.

Extremely efficient and courteous in both hospitals. And they were aware in both hospitals of my unvaccinated status.

I have attended my local hospital at least 5 times since, and on each occasion I fill in the entrance questionnaire about my current health status, even tho I dont have to as I have an appointment letter. But I see many just marching in and filling nothing out as well as just waltzing past the hand sanitizer. I suspect its because people feel they are safe because they have been vaccinated, as my 90 year old parents do. And its hard to convince them otherwise.
kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#678

Post by kadman »

Just to mention it was heart related and not covid. All my tests were negative. I even managed to survive 1 night in a covid breakout ward that had just been audited as covid free, on my own.
I woke up the following morning to a full ward, 5 new recruits :lol: :lol:
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#679

Post by Scotty »

isha wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:15 am I actually don't know where he got the stats, I checked earlier to see but he did not say.
Yea there's a few people in that thread asking him for a source of the info. He's not forthcoming.

But, to me, it seems to be more people who presented as unwell, were tested, and turned out positive, rather then caught covid while in hospital. I know many people did catch covid in hospital, but I don't think that's what he's implying.
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#680

Post by Scotty »

kadman wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:22 pmBut I see many just marching in and filling nothing out as well as just waltzing past the hand sanitizer. I suspect its because people feel they are safe because they have been vaccinated, as my 90 year old parents do. And its hard to convince them otherwise.
Someone posted here the other day that you were actually more likely to catch covid if you've been vaccinated. The stats do show that the older you are, the covid rate is actually higher for vaccinated than unvaccinated. I think it's because of what you say above. In my experience, unvaccinated (not necessarily 'anti-vax') are a little more cautious than the vaccinated. Some vaccinated truly believe they're invincible now.
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#681

Post by isha »

It is good to see a distinction between unvaccinated and anti vax. I have taken all sorts of vaccines including extra ones people dont usually get like for tropical diseases. I just don't want this one at this time.
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schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#682

Post by schmittel »

So, on the day - August 31st - that the government originally announced the plan to lift all restrictions on October 22nd, Stephen Donnelly did the media rounds to publicise the fact.

On Newstalk he said the modelling of case rates that the decision was predicated on showed that Covid cases were expected to peak in "roughly Mid October", and confirmed that they expected cases to rise through September and October.



What actually happened was they started trending down in early September, spiked a bit and then fell again until at 7th October the 7 day rolling average was 1,128.43 vs 1,738.43 on August 31st - i.e the date on which Donnelly said they expected cases to start rising.
Screenshot 2021-10-20 at 17.57.36.png
Screenshot 2021-10-20 at 17.57.36.png (77.11 KiB) Viewed 2472 times
After October 7th they did start to rise and hit the same level as August 31st on October 18th.

Weirdly it was about October 10th when the kites started flying about not removing the restrictions.

Again, just strikes me as odd, but no doubt it makes sense to everybody else!
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#683

Post by schmittel »

So, I'm still struggling to follow all this.

IT reporting this evening Almost full unrestricted reopening of hospitality sector to be confirmed on Thursday
New guidelines to be published by Fáilte Ireland on Thursday night will allow almost the full unrestricted reopening of the entire hospitality sector.

The guidelines will restore most of the pre-pandemic operations for nightclubs and live music venues, and will also lift the majority of remaining restrictions in pubs, restaurants and bars.
So does "almost full unrestricted reopening" mean you have to get your papers checked or not?!
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#684

Post by Scotty »

I think you'll still need your covid cert but things like standing at live events and queuing for a pint at the bar might be allowed.

Some more info on RTE > https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/1020/12547 ... reopening/
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#685

Post by isha »

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines. ... /table-2e/

That is an official website of the US govt - they have Ivermectin listed as a potential treatment for Covid.
People claim it was added recently. I don't know if that is true or not but it is there now.

Some interesting stories on IVM -
Remember the FDA's viral tweet about ''You're not a horse...seriously y'all, stop it''? Seen by 23 million people. Supposedly based on a Mississippi health dept official report that about 70% of their calls about poisonings being from animal pastes? The New York Times described ''a staggering amount of calls'', a statement they later had to retract. Well turns out it was 2% of the calls and it also turns out it was 8 people just checking in on a phone line - only one person was advised to go for observation.
This is the story of that from Mary Beth Pfeiffer on Michael Capuzzo's Substack- Capuzzo (I checked ) is a journalist with 4 Pulitzer prize nominations.
https://rescue.substack.com/p/horse-ble ... -on-animal

Here are a couple of recent studies on Ivermectin.

Published yesterday, from Malaysian researchers https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 3921002271
Recently, IVM has been proven effective in numerous in-silico and molecular biology experiments against the infection in mammalian cells and human cohort studies. One promising study had reported a marked reduction of 93% of released virion and 99.98% unreleased virion levels upon administration of IVM to Vero-hSLAM cells. IVM's mode of action centres around the inhibition of the cytoplasmic-nuclear shuttling of viral proteins by disrupting the Importin heterodimer complex (IMPα/β1) and downregulating STAT3, thereby effectively reducing the cytokine storm. Furthermore, the ability of IVM to block the active sites of viral 3CLpro and S protein, disrupts important machinery such as viral replication and attachment.
Published in September https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7521000883
Since March 2020, when IVM was first used against a new global scourge, COVID-19, more than 20 randomized clinical trials (RCTs) have tracked such inpatient and outpatient treatments. Six of seven meta-analyses of IVM treatment RCTs reporting in 2021 found notable reductions in COVID-19 fatalities, with a mean 31% relative risk of mortality vs. controls. During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive treatments. Reductions in deaths correlated with the extent of IVM distributions in all 25 states with p < 0.002. Sharp reductions in morbidity using IVM were also observed in two animal models, of SARS-CoV-2 and a related betacoronavirus. The indicated biological mechanism of IVM, competitive binding with SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, is likely non-epitope specific, possibly yielding full efficacy against emerging viral mutant strains.
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kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#686

Post by kadman »

Maybe now that the vaccines are clearly not the magic bullet some government may see the merit in using this drug.

Its no surprise that media and governments work hand in hand for pushing the narrative they want. Its quite clear RTE is the governments mouth piece. Investigative journalism is a dying thing here unfortunately .
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#687

Post by isha »

kadman wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:53 am Maybe now that the vaccines are clearly not the magic bullet some government may see the merit in using this drug.

Its no surprise that media and governments work hand in hand for pushing the narrative they want. Its quite clear RTE is the governments mouth piece. Investigative journalism is a dying thing here unfortunately .
We NEED early treatments, of different types. The Molnupiravir is quite expensive a dose to buy (note - not to produce!!) - that is not going to work in the vast areas of the world that are still poor. Also it is not showing such high efficacy as other molecules, AND it is still on trial. There are lots of interesting compounds - the anti-malarials seem to have good effect.


I had to laugh today when I saw Tony Holohan asked if kissing should be allowed in nightclubs and he sort of said well people will do what they will do, but they should be careful - perhaps the HSE could issue yellow posters with snogging instructions? :D
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CelticRambler
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#688

Post by CelticRambler »

isha wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:35 amHere are a couple of recent studies on Ivermectin.
Same old, same old. These are not studies on ivermectin: they are studies of reviews of previous studies, reviews of reviews. This is the professional equivalent of endless re-tweeting of the same material, disregarding and/or compounding small errors and oversights in the original research and passing it off as new information.

And this is why the phrase "I do my own research" has become so laughable in scientific circles, because it almost always refers to trawling through this kind of non-research that has absolutely no involvement with the molecules tested or the disease treated. These studies are not research - they're funding applications, carried out by statisticians; and when you scrape off the academic veneer, you usually find that the real science, the real research is limited to the same, very small number of experiments carried out on small numbers of patients and with numerous caveats in the original findings conveniently omitted from the reprocessed data.

Somewhat ironically, those who most loudly complain about the "experimental" nature of the vaccine and how quickly it's been developed after "limited" testing seem quite happy to set aside those objections when chasing magic bullets. That second link is a great example - it refers to "more than 20 randomized clinical trials". Ooooh, more than 20. :o So ... 21, maybe? or 22? That wouldn't even get you in the door of the EMA for approval of a Covid vaccine, and you can be damn sure that the EMA would want to know exactly how many more than 20 trials you'd conducted before they took you seriously.
kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#689

Post by kadman »

Is it fair to say that many vaccines went through approval from EMA , that now have major implications for those that took them, I am not talking about covid.
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#690

Post by isha »

The word you are looking for Celtic is meta-analysis. It is an accepted and useful research protocol in science.

A great thing that has come out of all this unpleasantness is potential MRNA treatment of diseases like Multiple Sclerosis and potential use of old molecules like Ivermectin in treatment of cancers, eg Breast Cancer
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7505114/
https://journals.lww.com/oncology-times ... eat.4.aspx
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#691

Post by isha »

kadman wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:24 am Is it fair to say that many vaccines went through approval from EMA , that now have major implications for those that took them, I am not talking about covid.
Like the swine flu vaccine?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.4634179
July 29 2021
Settlements totalling more than €4.5 million have been approved by the High Court in three cases over the administration of a swine flu vaccine which allegedly caused a sleep disorder.

The cases involve two people under the age of 18 and an adult man who cannot be identified by court order. The cases were against the Minister for Health, the HSE, and Glaxosmithkline Biologicals SA (GSK) – the producer of swine flu vaccine Pandemrix.
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/110 ... cine-case/
November 2020
The High Court has approved a settlement in the case of a 15-year-old boy who developed an incurable sleep disorder and a debilitating auto immune condition after receiving the swine flu vaccine ten years ago.

The ground breaking settlement also paves the way for a further 80 people - mostly teens and young adults - who have cases pending to achieve similar settlements.
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kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#692

Post by kadman »

I was thinking more about Gardasil.
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#693

Post by kadman »

Its no wonder that there is vaccine hesitancy when you see the historical data of the adverse effects of other vaccines.
I really feel for these poor girls.
Although its cancer-preventing properties have never been proven, the National Immunisation Office insists that the benefits of Gardasil outweigh the risks, and even claim that it has been 'fully tested', This is despite the limited safety testing that took place as a result of Gardasil being fast-tracked through the regulatory approval process. HSE did not inform parents that Gardasil contains genetically engineered non-human recombinant DNA, the effects of which are unknown and unpredictable when injected into a human host.

Current status of adverse reactions to Gardasil in Ireland

The most recent HPRA report reveals 945 reports of suspected HPV vaccine adverse reactions from 2010 up to 16/07/2015. Of which
- 83 "Outcome" is "Unknown"
- 137 "Not recovered at time of reporting"
- 12 "Recovering"

*R.E.G.R.E.T. is an acronym for "Reactions and Effects of Gardasil Resulting in Extreme Trauma".
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#694

Post by Scotty »

isha wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:35 am That is an official website of the US govt - they have Ivermectin listed as a potential treatment for Covid.
Isha, if you follow the link on the right of the IVM section to the page on clinical trials you will see none of them are in the US. They are in Argentina, Malaysia, Turkey, and Iraq.

If you look at the two that are completed and have published results (both almost a year old), you will see one had 60 participants and the other has just 16. By comparison, the covid vaccines have had over 100,000 trial participants.

In the results for the study with 60 participants, 15 of the 60 died. Is this higher than usual?

Meanwhile, in other news.... Ivermectin Poisonings Rise as Unproven Use for Covid Soars

I think we might stumble upon a drug that works great for Covid. I don't think the signs are looking good for Ivermectin though.

Edit: Sorry, I only looked at the first page of clinical trials, there are more with at least one being held in the US.
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#695

Post by isha »

Scotty wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:38 am Isha, if you follow the link on the right of the IVM section to the page on clinical trials you will see none of them are in the US. They are in Argentina, Malaysia, Turkey, and Iraq.

The other day you dismissed numbers from India, Russia and China. You are beginning to show something of a US/EU-centric bias when it comes to things medical, as if people over "there" don't know how to do things properly. Many of our best doctors here were trained in India or Africa. The best medical treatment I have ever had was in Bulgaria. Other countries have smart people too you know.
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#696

Post by Scotty »

isha wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:44 am The other day you dismissed numbers from India, Russia and China. You are beginning to show something of a US/EU-centric bias when it comes to things medical, as if people over "there" don't know how to do things properly. Many of our best doctors here were trained in India or Africa. The best medical treatment I have ever had was in Bulgaria. Other countries have smart people too you know.
You promoted the link as being 'official US gov'. All I'm saying is that the trials are almost entirely outside the US.
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#697

Post by PureIsle »

Scotty wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:38 am Isha, if you follow the link on the right of the IVM section to the page on clinical trials you will see none of them are in the US. They are in Argentina, Malaysia, Turkey, and Iraq.

If you look at the two that are completed and have published results (both almost a year old), you will see one had 60 participants and the other has just 16. By comparison, the covid vaccines have had over 100,000 trial participants.

In the results for the study with 60 participants, 15 of the 60 died. Is this higher than usual?

Meanwhile, in other news.... Ivermectin Poisonings Rise as Unproven Use for Covid Soars

I think we might stumble upon a drug that works great for Covid. I don't think the signs are looking good for Ivermectin though.

Edit: Sorry, I only looked at the first page of clinical trials, there are more with at least one being held in the US.
From my quick scan of what this is based on it appears these 'poisonings' appear to be based on 21 calls to their help line and not on any factual harm that ensued from taking IVM.
For all we know they were calls to elicit information prior to taking IVM.
Their all-encompassing term 'misuse' covers all Covid treatment use as they point out IVM is not approved for treatment of Covid!

https://news.ohsu.edu/2021/08/24/do-not ... r-covid-19
The Oregon Poison Center at Oregon Health & Science University is fielding a substantial number of calls about the drug ivermectin, which is approved to treat parasitic worms and some skin conditions. While the center managed just three cases of intentionally misusing ivermectin in all of 2020, it managed 21 such cases in August 2021.
Taking too much ivermectin can cause nausea, diarrhea, low blood pressure, itching and hives, dizziness, balance problems, seizures and even death. Ingesting ivermectin formulations that are designed for animals is especially dangerous, as veterinary medications are often more concentrated and many of their ingredients aren’t considered safe for human use.
There is no mention of any serious adverse effect or death, which I am sure they would have highlighted if such occurred.

This is an absolute nonsense headline and reference with only one aim - to promote vaccine take-up and dismiss any and all potential treatments.

..... and you complain about IVM studies not being up to your standard?

:roll:
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#698

Post by Scotty »

PureIsle wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:00 am There is no mention of any serious adverse effect or death, which I am sure they would have highlighted if such occurred.

This is an absolute nonsense headline and reference with only one aim - to promote vaccine take-up and dismiss any and all potential treatments.

..... and you complain about IVM studies not being up to your standard?

:roll:
5 hospitalised and 2 in ICU. You can read the official report from the the official site here > https://news.ohsu.edu/2021/09/17/five-o ... r-covid-19
Abella
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#699

Post by Abella »

Heart attacks and strokes!
Sudden Death!
and people are excited about getting the vaccine, cant wait to get their young children vaccinated and are looking forward to a booster for themselves.
I am now starting to believe the conspiracy theories, this is to cull the herd of those with low IQ, cant think of anything else that would have people eager to get a third and get their children vaccinated other than they are idiots.
Remember we will never know the true number of dead from the vaccine because if you die within 14 days of the second you are considered to have dies of Covid19, very convenient if you think about it.
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CelticRambler
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#700

Post by CelticRambler »

isha wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:25 am The word you are looking for Celtic is meta-analysis. It is an accepted and useful research protocol in science.
I'm not looking for it - it's just a fancy way of saying "let's not bother doing any research ourselves, let's just pool other people's data and see what we can make of it". Yes, it's a "useful" protocol, but it's not research, and it relies entirely on the source data having been collected in a disciplined and reliable way. Unfortunately, in recent decades, the commercialisation of academia has pushed more and more researchers to produce faulty data on the back of faulty experiments to meet artificial quotas for "scholarly" publication. Hence my very deliberate use of the phrase "disregarding and/or compounding small errors and oversights in the original research" instead of the high-falutin but essentially meaningless "meta-analysis" :ugeek:
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