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Vaccine megathread

All things COVID
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#701

Post by isha »

It is research. It is commonly used.
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
Abella
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#702

Post by Abella »

As the pro vaccine folk like to say "trust the science"
https://www.science.org/content/article ... aids-virus

and we had this last year
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/11/worl ... itive.html
strange happenings to say the least

NIH admits Fauci lied about funding Wuhan gain-of-function experiments
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-AAPLZIe
What is in these vaccines, what is really going on, are they about to throw Fauci under the bus to save their own necks?
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#703

Post by PureIsle »

A bit of a bombshell from Italy, if I am reading these google translations correctly.

Big mess in the death report. For the ISS, most of the deaths were not caused by Covid

https://www.iltempo.it/attualita/2021/1 ... -29134543/

Covid-19: deceased vaccinated people are 'hyperfragile', higher average age and more previous diseases

https://www.panoramasanita.it/2021/10/2 ... pregresse/


The document on which those reports are based

https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronaviru ... e-2021.pdf


I would draw your attention to how vaxxed Vs unvaxxed were counted, as it makes it clear in the PDF
unvaccinated cases - all subjects notified with a confirmed diagnosis of infection with
SARS-CoV-2 viruses who have never received a dose of SARS-CoV-2 vaccine or that
have been vaccinated with first or single dose within 14 days of diagnosis, ie
before the time needed to develop an at least partial immune response to the
vaccine.
cases with an incomplete course of vaccination - all cases reported with a diagnosis confirmed SARS-CoV-2 virus infection and documented 14 days after administration of the first dose, in subjects who have received only the first dose of a vaccine that provides a second dose to complete the vaccination cycle (Pfizer-BioNtech, Moderna and Vaxzevria vaccines). This group also includes the subjects who received the second dose but in whom the diagnosis was made within 14 days from the second dose. It is noted that an incomplete vaccination course provides less protection than a full vaccination course.
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#704

Post by PureIsle »

Abella wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:28 pm As the pro vaccine folk like to say "trust the science"
https://www.science.org/content/article ... aids-virus

and we had this last year
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/11/worl ... itive.html
strange happenings to say the least

NIH admits Fauci lied about funding Wuhan gain-of-function experiments
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-AAPLZIe
What is in these vaccines, what is really going on, are they about to throw Fauci under the bus to save their own necks?
The official page:

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-cond ... t-research
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#705

Post by PureIsle »

... and for a bit of light (maybe sick?) relief

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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#706

Post by PureIsle »

I found an English version of the PDF ...... not sure it is the same but others can persuse this maybe?

https://www.epicentro.iss.it/en/coronav ... r_2021.pdf


"Overall, 2.9% of the sample presented with a no comorbidities, 11.4% with a single comorbidity, 18.0% with 2, and 67.7% with 3 or more."
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#707

Post by Scotty »

Abella wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:28 pm As the pro vaccine folk like to say "trust the science"
https://www.science.org/content/article ... aids-virus
The headline is "Could certain COVID-19 vaccines leave people more vulnerable to the AIDS virus?". You've obviously read the article so please share, what was the conclusion?
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#708

Post by Scotty »

PureIsle wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:41 pm A bit of a bombshell from Italy, if I am reading these google translations correctly.


https://www.iltempo.it/attualita/2021/1 ... -29134543/
Died OF covid, died WITH covid. Not really a bomb shell. Surely people knew there was a difference and that covid was not the primary cause of deaths in all or even most cases? It's a catalyst. I'd say, and I'm only guessing, that it rarely the primary cause of death.
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#709

Post by schmittel »

Scotty wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:39 pm Died OF covid, died WITH covid. Not really a bomb shell. Surely people knew there was a difference and that covid was not the primary cause of deaths in all or even most cases? It's a catalyst. I'd say, and I'm only guessing, that it rarely the primary cause of death.
If covid is rarely the primary cause of death why are people whingeing that only 89% of the population are vaccinated against it? What's all the fuss about?
CelticRambler
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#710

Post by CelticRambler »

PureIsle wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:23 pm I found an English version of the PDF ...... not sure it is the same but others can persuse this maybe?

https://www.epicentro.iss.it/en/coronav ... r_2021.pdf
Nothing new in it. People with cardio-vascular disease and/or obesity and/or diabetes are more likely to suffer the disease known as "covid" (as opposed to infection with the coronavirus Sars-CoV-2)
Compared to the deceased ‘unvaccinated-no dose’, those with a ‘full vaccination course’ had a significantly
higher average age (85.5 vs 78.3).
So sick people live an average of about seven years longer if they're vaccinated ... which means they'll probably develop more age-related illnesses because that's what happens once you pass 45-ish years of age.

But we knew all of that already.
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#711

Post by Scotty »

schmittel wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:53 pm If covid is rarely the primary cause of death why are people whingeing that only 89% of the population are vaccinated against it? What's all the fuss about?
You can't be serious?
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#712

Post by schmittel »

Scotty wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:11 pm You can't be serious?
Totally serious question.
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#713

Post by Scotty »

schmittel wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:17 pm Totally serious question.
wow!!!
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#714

Post by schmittel »

Scotty wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:22 pmwow!!!
You've said it all makes perfect sense to you, so could you spell it out for me?
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Scotty
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#715

Post by Scotty »

Sorry Schmittel but if after 18 months of a pandemic, spending as much time on the subject as you do, you still don't understand "What's all the fuss", then there's really no hope you'll ever grasp it and I'm certainly not going to waste any of my time trying to show you. I've already spent WAY more time on this thread than I ever intended, an utter waste of time. Take care, I'm out! :shock:
schmittel
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#716

Post by schmittel »

Scotty wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:38 pm Sorry Schmittel but if after 18 months of a pandemic, spending as much time on the subject as you do, you still don't understand "What's all the fuss", then there's really no hope you'll ever grasp it and I'm certainly not going to waste any of my time trying to show you. I've already spent WAY more time on this thread than I ever intended, an utter waste of time. Take care, I'm out! :shock:
The question was specifically what is all the fuss about vaccinating more people? Why isn't 89% enough?

It sounds like you don't know either, but as you said before, you don't need to understand it, other people do that for you.
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#717

Post by PureIsle »

Maybe some will question what has been done when they see examples like this ..... I can only hope they do.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/amis ... -down.html
kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#718

Post by kadman »

Thats interesting.
6456739

Re: Vaccine megathread

#719

Post by 6456739 »

PureIsle wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:22 pm Maybe some will question what has been done when they see examples like this ..... I can only hope they do.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/amis ... -down.html
Another linkdump. The plural of anecdote is not data.
CelticRambler
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#720

Post by CelticRambler »

PureIsle wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:22 pm Maybe some will question what has been done when they see examples like this ..... I can only hope they do.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/amis ... -down.html
Subsection of the population known for their isolationism, non-materialistic lifestyle and generally superior cardio-vascular health (and almost no obesity) seems to have been less affected by the pandemic. Grand. Presumably we'll see a surge in support for mass adherence to the Amish lifestyle if or when it's proposed by the government of your choice?

:roll:
6456739

Re: Vaccine megathread

#721

Post by 6456739 »

CelticRambler wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:05 pm Subsection of the population known for their isolationism, non-materialistic lifestyle and generally superior cardio-vascular health (and almost no obesity) seems to have been less affected by the pandemic. Grand. Presumably we'll see a surge in support for mass adherence to the Amish lifestyle if or when it's proposed by the government of your choice?

:roll:
That was my conclusion once my curiosity got the better of me. In a country where violence is fetishised, obesity rates soar and the population gets ever more sedentary it makes sense that the Amish would prove to be highly positive outliers in terms of the effects of covid.

Somehow, I don't see the anti-vaxxers ditching their smartphones and social media accounts sadly.
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#722

Post by isha »

Doing a few sums here.

HSE reports today April 1 - Oct 16th Covid Deaths = 402
At Sept 11th Covid deaths were 251.

So 151 deaths in 36 days from Sept 11 - Oct 16th (Note 29 deaths are unvax, 122 are vaxxed. Also note unvax patients may be among those not be able to have vax - they may be too infirm.)

From Sept 11th to Oct 16th we averaged 1500 RECORDED cases per day.
That is 1500x 36 days = 54000

Note if we go back 1 month earlier to August - Sept (to allow for death lag) we averaged 1800 cases RECORDED per day which is 64800.

151/54000 = Case fatality Rate of 0.28%
151/64800 = Case Fatality Rate of 0.23%

I am certain we are absolutely not RECORDING all cases of Covid so to allow for some rational measure of under-recording of actual cases let us add 1/3rd to the Recorded Cases - this is not excessive, it may be we are even recording far fewer than that.

151/ 72000 (Sept - Oct ) = potential IFR of 0.21%
151/86400 (Aug - Sept) = potential IFR of 0. 17% - This I think is more likely to be the closer one to truth as it takes account of both sickness- death lag and under-recording.

On wiki it is acknowledged that a vaccinated IFR of seasonal Influenza is 0.1% (vaccinated), the CDC records it as 0.1% - 0.2% and up to 0.5% where largely unvaccinated. Like Covid, mortality there is very age-stratified.

For this IFR of approx 0.17% at most, we are wondering if people should be allowed to kiss each other in nightclubs, pushing that children who are largely completely unfazed by this disease have a repeating experimental gene therapy shot and banning people who do not want the vaccine from many social venues and in some countries removing their ability to pursue their livelihoods.

I know Covid is a highly contagious disease and I am personally careful about crowds and maintaining good immunity as best I can, but in all honesty we have lost our ever-loving minds.
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
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PureIsle
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#723

Post by PureIsle »

For this IFR of approx 0.17% at most, we are wondering if people should be allowed to kiss each other in nightclubs, pushing that children who are largely completely unfazed by this disease have a repeating experimental gene therapy shot and banning people who do not want the vaccine from many social venues and in some countries removing their ability to pursue their livelihoods.

I know Covid is a highly contagious disease and I am personally careful about crowds and maintaining good immunity as best I can, but in all honesty we have lost our ever-loving minds.
I wish it was just that, but it appears more likely that this is all to achieve covid-pass registration for the whole population, and of course the fear might be what that data will be used for in the future.

Why else insist on this pass when it has little or no affect whatsoever on the health of the nation?
Anyone who claims it does is either deluded, in denial, or outright lying.


I believe the actual independent calculations that I read came out as 0.15% so your figures seem to agree. ;)
kadman
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#724

Post by kadman »

All your data is already known thanks to your eaves dropping phone and Alexa. There is nothing thats not known about you by someone else, many times over.


That battle was well lost when you relied on technology to take a more in depth association with your personal information.
But Ted Kazinski did warn you now didn't he ;)
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isha
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Re: Vaccine megathread

#725

Post by isha »

PureIsle wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:22 pm I wish it was just that, but it appears more likely that this is all to achieve covid-pass registration for the whole population, and of course the fear might be what that data will be used for in the future.

Why else insist on this pass when it has little or no affect whatsoever on the health of the nation?
Anyone who claims it does is either deluded, in denial, or outright lying.


I believe the actual independent calculations that I read came out as 0.15% so your figures seem to agree. ;)
I am trying to avoid presuming its a control thing. It may be. But I think it might be that once leaders went balls to the wall with a hysterical global scenario they just have to keep up the commitment or look foolish. And I admit I was freaked out myself until I got more freaked about the vaccine and medical authoritarianism.
I still hate this bloody virus.
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
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