Vaccine megathread

[kadman]

Well if you need boosters on an ongoing basis, there can never be a situation where fully vaccinated applies.
They may have to rephrase that to partially vaccinated.

I posted earlier of a known healthcare worker who was told she was in for a top up vaccine not a booster . Is that possibly the new term, if you have to call in for a continual "top up"

[Scotty]

I posted earlier of a known healthcare worker who was told she was in for a top up vaccine not a booster . Is that possibly the new term, if you have to call in for a continual "top up"

Are you sure it wasn't just her second shot?

[Scotty]

How about the defintion of fully vaccinated at the point when the vaccines were administered? Before they realised that the vaccinnes had the shelf life of full fat milk.

Just so we can avoid redefining "fully vaccinated" every few months in order to excuse the less than stellar performance of these vaccines

Unvaccinated <<-------Bold people are here
Half vaccinated
Fully Vaccinated <<----- Most are here
Booster vaccinated <<----Some are here
Revaccinated
Super vaccinated
Super duper vaccinated
Uber vaccinated
Mega vaccinated
Really really vaccinated
Jumbo vaccinated
Astro Galactic Vaccinated
to be continued

I don't know where people got this notion of vaccines being some kind of utopian silver bullet one shot solution to eradicating covid. You were very much mislead (or misunderstood) wherever it was!

Covid is here to stay. There is no evidence to the contrary. We just have to learn to manage it between vaccines and restrictions. Eventually we'll get the balance right.

[Banshee Bones]

Scotty, you've been asked on numerous occassions to show us where the manufacturers or nphet/HSE were stating that the vacinnes would need booster shots in a matter of 3-4 months, and you've ignored each request in your attempt to rewrite the recent past.

Nphet and the HSE were both stating that the vaccines would bring COVID under control and get us back to normality, They haven't.

[isha]

Covid is here to stay. There is no evidence to the contrary. We just have to learn to manage it between vaccines and restrictions. Eventually we'll get the balance right.

Covid is here to stay, unfortunately.

Human interventions in pandemics can only be assessed in retrospect. We have intervened a lot in the process.
We are as yet uncertain as to whether or not the interventions we have made thus far have managed the pandemic well. Non pharmaceutical interventions like Lockdowns were NOT advised in previous pandemic response mechanisms that had been agreed upon globally heretofore. In hindsight after the first one (which was natural) I think they have been a bad idea. They have ruined many lives, economies, and health outcomes for other conditions etc.

Restrictions based on vaccination status have no epidemiological rationale, as vaccinated people incubate and transmit virus and efficacy wanes very quickly. They are administrative mechanisms for forcing vaccination, and not health interventions for controlling the spread of disease.

Mass 'vaccination' during high viral presence in the population using non-sterilising medical products that target only a very narrow part of the receptor part of the spike proteins on a highly mutating virus may yet prove to have been a very bad idea. I believe it was a bad idea.

So on both points you make I do not agree that what you see as the logical foregone conclusion re management of the virus is correct.

Herd immunity via natural exposure of resilient populations that was based on broad based natural immune system response to all 4 proteins in the virus, which would have happened faster with no lockdowns and in the absence of mass vaccination, may have been a better strategy and may yet prove to be still a better strategy.

Look, for example, at how freaked the global leaders are about the possibility of vaccine evasion re Omicron. The response using vaccines and restrictions is far too vulnerable. It is not unvaccinated immune responses to the virus that train the virus to selectively mutate to evade vaccines. This is logical. The spike protein changes in mutations are much more probable due to vaccine pressure.

[Scotty]

Scotty, you've been asked on numerous occassions to show us where the manufacturers or nphet/HSE were stating that the vacinnes would need booster shots in a matter of 3-4 months, and you've ignored each request in your attempt to rewrite the recent past.

Oh I will. Just as soon as you show me where they told you they were the miracle magical one hit wonder you seem to believe you were promised.

Do you understand it's a novel virus? and what being a novel virus entails?

Nphet and the HSE were both stating that the vaccines would bring COVID under control.

Which they did. It's the one and only reason we're not currently under lockdown.

[Scotty]

They are administrative mechanisms for forcing vaccination, and not health interventions for controlling the spread of disease.[/b]

LMAO!

[isha]

LMAO!

That is all you have?

Vaccine passports do not control spread of Covid. Fact. You can laugh your ass off all you want, the fact remains the fact.

[Scotty]

That is all you have?

Vaccine passports do not control spread of Covid. Fact. You can laugh your ass off all you want, the fact remains the fact.

My apologies Isha, on first reading I thought you were referring to restrictions in general but I see it's specifically the Covid Passports. I would agree that they only seem to serve to encourage vaccination.

[kadman]

Are you sure it wasn't just her second shot?

Aww now Scotty, you cant twist every post to suit the narrative

[scooby]

The moronic variant and its vaccine resistant properties are just proof that we will never vaccinate our way out of this pandemic.

Mass vaccination is a waste:
If we vaccinate everyone with a leaky vaccine, covid will still be able to spread and mutate through everyone - given unlimited time (assuming covid is not going away) its inevitable it will mutate enough to totally evade vaccine immunity through enough changes in the spike protein (vaccines only focus on S protein).

If you vaccinate only those who need it (40+ and all underlying conditions) then should a vaccine resistant variant arise, it is less likely to become dominant. A vaccine-resistant variant has no transmission advantages in an unvaccinated population, whereas it does in a vaccinated population.

In unvaccinated people, the virus spread is determined almost totally by the R0 - in vaccinated people its a combination of R0 and vaccine evasion. Thats why omicron appears to outcompete delta, its R0 is lower than Delta, but the effective Rt is higher because delta is impacted more by vaccines.
If we had vaccinated less people, delta could still circulate more and omicron mightnt take over. Thankfully it appears right now to be milder overall, but if it werent we would have doomed the vulnerable and rendered their vaccinations totally useless.

[Scotty]

Aww now Scotty, you cant twist every post to suit the narrative

?? Does that mean you're not sure?

[isha]

If you vaccinate only those who need it (40+ and all underlying conditions) then should a vaccine resistant variant arise, it is less likely to become dominant.

I agree largely with your post, except I would say 60+, plus vulnerable and always electively, ie by choice. Healthy people, thanks be to everything that is lucky or holy in the world, fare well enough with Covid. If anyone under 60 wants it, of course, that is their choice. But individuals should be aware of demographic pressure of mass vaccination.

There is also the issue of the rather disgusting vaccine hoarding that is going on now among healthy people in the rich world thus depriving needy elder and ill people in the poorer world of finite medical products, people who would benefit from the undoubted protection vaccines offer against severe outcomes and death for the more vulnerable.
It also really disgusts me to see vaccines deemed out of favour due to higher adverse reactions in the developed world being gifted to the developing world with much fanfare. Ugh.

Ireland offloads her Janssen stock -
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ ... -1.4742228

A consignment of 500,000 Covid-19 vaccines donated by Ireland arrived in Nigeria on Monday. It is the state’s second significant overseas vaccine donation, following a recent delivery of more than 300,000 vaccines to Uganda.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/hea ... -1.4618564

[Cyclepath]

Ireland offloads her Janssen stock -
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ ... -1.4742228

Glad we got rid of the aul' homeless vaccine. But to be fair any vaccine is much better than none. New variants arise much more easily in immunocompromised people (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsb2104756). They should be the vaccination priority.

Current speculation among virologists is that Omicron has passed back and forth between rodents and animals. Several of the mutations seen in Omicron have been actually observed in animals including rodents (https://virological.org/t/mutations-ari ... age/578/11).

So I suggest we vaccinate all the animals too...

However it will be several weeks before we know how serious this variant is in terms of hospitalisation and death. We also don't yet know if the variant's 'success' is due to more to virulence (ease of transmission) or immune evasion (vaccine effectivity), or both

[Banshee Bones]

Oh I will. Just as soon as you show me where they told you they were the miracle magical one hit wonder you seem to believe you were promised.

Do you understand it's a novel virus? and what being a novel virus entails?

Which they did. It's the one and only reason we're not currently under lockdown.

Ah right, so you can't. But you'll keep trotting out the " we all knew" line regardless

[Scotty]

Ah right, so you can't. But you'll keep trotting out the " we all knew" line regardless

Yes, in hindsight I shouldn't have said we all knew, because clearly, some of us didn't.

[kadman]

?? Does that mean you're not sure?

No , it means you are wrong again

[Scotty]

No , it means you are wrong again

wrong about what? I asked a question.

[PureIsle]

Oh I will. Just as soon as you show me where they told you they were the miracle magical one hit wonder you seem to believe you were promised.

Do you understand it's a novel virus? and what being a novel virus entails?

Which they did. It's the one and only reason we're not currently under lockdown.

What in your opinion makes it a novel virus?

[kadman]

Taoiseach said this 12 months ago to the day.

I think the light he is on about, is another artic load of boosters

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/p ... 19940.html

He said there is "light at the end of the tunnel" and 2021 will be a different year as the country emerges from the pandemic

[Banshee Bones]

Taoiseach said this 12 months ago to the day.

I think the light he is on about, is another artic load of boosters

Stop remembering things! Become the happy goldfish who treats each statement as though it was the first

[PureIsle]

So has anyone read the Pfizer document detailing the results of the ongoing Phase 3 trial of their 'vaccine' to the end of Feb '21?

It certainly makes interesting, if terrifying, reading.

Maybe it deserves a thread of its own for discussion, but it should be here under vaccine also IMO.

The PDF is available here ...
https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ... rience.pdf

Be Prepared!

[kadman]

Given that current trends in Ireland suggest that drinking has increased during the pandemic , according to the recent report published covering a 5 year period, some worrying trends are developing.

https://www.hrb.ie/fileadmin/2._Plugin_ ... ies_11.pdf

Conclusion
Between 2012 and 2017, there were at least 121,919 hospital discharges from partially
alcohol-attributable conditions. When this is combined with wholly alcohol-attributable
conditions, alcohol was responsible for at least 230,604 discharges from Irish hospitals over
that six-year period. It is important to note that the burden of partially alcohol-attributable
conditions from alcohol consumption is likely underestimated in this analysis. The AAFs used
to calculate partially alcohol-attributable hospital discharges were based on self-reported
Irish alcohol consumption. Previous research in Ireland has shown that self-report surveys
account for less than 40% of Irish alcohol sales.26 Therefore, the figures reported in this
analysis represent the minimum number of discharges due to partially alcohol-attributable
conditions; the true number is likely considerably higher. Alcohol is a preventable risk factor,10
meaning that the burden placed on Irish hospitals by alcohol-related admissions could be
greatly reduced by an overall reduction in alcohol consumption in the Irish population. This is
not to mention the costs to a person’s health, quality of life, and relationships that can arise
due to alcohol use

[PureIsle]

Alcohol is a preventable risk factor,10
meaning that the burden placed on Irish hospitals by alcohol-related admissions could be
greatly reduced by an overall reduction in alcohol consumption in the Irish population.

Maybe that could be worded better ...... it is only a percentage of the population causing those admissions, so the reduction in consumption by that percentage is what should be aimed at and not the Irish population as a whole.

There are far more people drinking responsibly than there are requiring hospital admission due to alcohol abuse.

[kadman]

So has anyone read the Pfizer document detailing the results of the ongoing Phase 3 trial of their 'vaccine' to the end of Feb '21?

It certainly makes interesting, if terrifying, reading.

Maybe it deserves a thread of its own for discussion, but it should be here under vaccine also IMO.

The PDF is available here ...
https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ... rience.pdf

Be Prepared!

I was a bit surprised at the numbers that got covid after the vaccine. I didn't think that could happen.