Not Getting the Vaccine

[GrowlerG]

Well you've convinced me.

I think you should invest in starting a political party with the manifesto its all fake news. How could it lose.

[Memento Mori]

Having received my first dose, it was noteworthy to me the amount of emphasis put on my consenting to receiving the vaccine. On the online portal, I had to say I read the literature (which includes detail on possible side effects) and say that I was freely accepting and consenting to recieving the vaccine. This exercise was repeated verbally at the vaccination centre, with my answer noted on the computer. No doubt similar will happen with my second dose.

I was half tempted to say that I am not "freely" consenting, because I was not. I had to get the vaccine, there is really not much choice in the matter. Strictly speaking, it was consent under duress. I found it quite insulting actually, as, let's be honest, all this stuff about consent is just so they can turn around and say "they consented, tough" if I was unlucky enough to die or got very ill because of the jab. How can someone freely consent if to say no is to suffer social and legal ostracism from society?

As someone extremely unlikely to die from Covid, I can understand the reluctance of even younger people not wanting to get it. I had severe fatigue for a week after my first jab. This will likely be a yearly ritual. I think it is right in my circumstances to get this vaccine, but I don't think people should be forced.

[schmittel]

A ridiculous article on vaccines from Fintan O'Toole in the IT: Shocking news, Irish people may be sanest in Europe

Basically says because we have the lowest levels of vaccine hesitancy in Europe we also have the the lowest levels of "loopers".

In February and March, when vaccination programmes were getting under way in earnest, 86.5 per cent of Irish people said they were either very or rather likely to get their jabs. The equivalent figures for Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands were in the low sixties. In France, just 48.7 per cent said they were likely to get vaccinated.

Conversely, hardcore vaccine sceptics made up 29 per cent of the French, 24 per cent of the Germans and 25 per cent of the Dutch and Austrians. In Ireland the proportion saying they were “very unlikely” to get vaccinated was just over 6 per cent.

And then for some reason he equates this 6% with all sorts of conspiracy theories:

If you believe that the virus is a hoax, that the vaccine has a satanic code and/or a microchip embedded in it, that wearing masks will cause brain damage to children, you will believe anything.

This thoroughly disingenuous. I am sceptical about getting a vaccine, but I don't for a minute believe that "the vaccine has a satanic code and/or a microchip embedded in it or that wearing masks will cause brain damage to children"

But according to Fintan, I'm a "dangerous looper". It's this sort of nonsense that risks turning the non vaccinated into pariahs.

[GrowlerG]

As it's behind a pay wall most people won't be able to read it.

Though I assume for most people its not being vaccinated which differentiates them not some news article.

[kadman]

Well I'm a looper so along with you if thats the case. I like to think I am a conspiracy factist, and not a theorist.

Its well documented how vaccine producers/pharma have used totally immoral methods in testing their products. For example to mention just 2, as thats a hole other thread. Some governments have admitted using their unsuspecting populations for airborne dispercal of various elements. And using a captive group of prisoners for drug experiments is surely immoral to say the very least.

So in that frame of mind I find it extremely hard to believe what I am told by them.

[scooby]

Sure here in Ireland gsk used to test vaccines on orphans without their consent - right up until recently.
Many suffered horrendous side effects including death - but sure pharma lads are great eh?

[GrowlerG]

"...And then for some reason he equates this 6% with all sorts of conspiracy theories..."

While the article might be ill-judged. But there is a noticeable trend with AntiVacc threads on forums, always being dragged down into very grand conspiracy like theories and links to articles not backed by any data or studies.

That's not to say just because you think people are out to get you, that doesn't always mean that they aren't....

[GrowlerG]

Sure here in Ireland gsk used to test vaccines on orphans without their consent - right up until recently.
Many suffered horrendous side effects including death - but sure pharma lads are great eh?

They aren't all bad either.

[schmittel]

"...And then for some reason he equates this 6% with all sorts of conspiracy theories..."

While the article might be ill-judged. But there is a noticeable trend with AntiVacc threads on forums, always being dragged down into very grand conspiracy like theories and links to articles not backed by any data or studies.

That's not to say just because you think people are out to get you, that doesn't always mean that they aren't....

Sure you see those threads on forums. The point that I was making was that if it is 6% of people who are highly unlikely to get the vaccine, it is nonsense to claim that all these 6% are nut jobs peddling anti vaxxer conspiracy theories.

[Memento Mori]

Ireland is the land where groupthink from the incestuous conglomerate of the media and politicians is portrayed as the opinion and stance of joe public, any deviation from which, as Fintan says, will have you branded a loon. This has always been the case, it is just that that consensus opinion among that small group has changed. The authoritarian undercurrent remains. Those with long memories or who have studied it, will remember how anyone who took a critical line on NI beyond what the conservatives in the SDLP said (remember, Hume was monstered at first when he spoke with SF) was basically branded a provo. It is conscious agenda-pushing by this group of people, who have awfully high opinions of themselves and their "duty" to society. This agenda pushing and groupthink is excused with the claim that any published critical thought against what they have deemed desirable, no matter how reasoned, mild or justified, would empower the actual tiny amount of loons/IRA/communists/racists/fascists (insert as appropriate, per the era in time).

[GrowlerG]

".. it is nonsense to claim that all these 6% are nut jobs peddling anti vaxxer conspiracy theories..."

Nothing is every black and white. So even without reading the article I wouldn't be taking it seriously for that reason at all.
I would be very dismissive of anyone making should sweeping generalizations. There are valid medical reasons not to take a vaccine.

[scooby]

They aren't all bad either.

I agree - they arent.
But forcing governments to not only indemnify them, but also downplay any alternative treatments (as per Pfizer contract) is pretty bad form

Basically they're reputation should neither go against or for them in this case - only thing in question should be the vaccine itself/its technology and the amount of testing & observation done. Millions of doses with a *relatively* low number of side effects is a good start - but we categorically do not and can not know any long term effects until we first wait that length of time.

[GrowlerG]

...downplay any alternative treatments (as per Pfizer contract) is pretty bad form...

What alternative treatments.

[Waning Gibbus]

* No talk of people dying 'from' , and not 'with' the vaccine/s... Not much talk at all about adverse side effects, save for a sore arm, or maybe symptoms comparable to a bad cold
* N0 conversation/alternative viewpoints allowed on mainstream media - TV / Facebook / YouTube censoring away.. all science should be up for discussion.. A lot of scientists have differing opinions to the permitted narrative...
*14 days to 'flatten the curve' 500+ days ago
*Masks still have to be worn - despite the massive uptake
*Not many in 'developing countries' have taken/been given a jab (or 3 lol) - Whatever happened to the 'one and done' - I guess them dinghys are still traversing the med, and folks making their way to France/Germany/Nordic Countries/Eire... But that's fine I guess
*Different rules for me, but not for thee... There was "some ambivalence (massive amount of equivocating bs) relating to 'guidelines' and 'restrictions' " same crap was also witnessed across the pond at Wimbledon etc.. the elites mingling freely...
*A sh1tshow from start to finish
*Almost every fqer in the media is on board with the propaganda.. TV shows too... Not too many A-listers or comedians who may have the opposite view to the mainstream, or just being nonconforming iconoclasts - nope, all on board
*Just to add to the fear, out comes the DV... Still not enough 'fear' - what to do??? Bring 'Climate Change' back into the fold..
*Fear-mongering on its own was never going to work (regards shaming, or making pariahs out of the unvaccinated) , so out came the cynical think of the children admonitions
*And over in yankee land it's "Well, voluntarily getting jabbed didn't have the expected effect... That's okay though, let's make it mandatory"

Even on here some of the threads have been closed.. Just like on the site that this one was advertised as being an alternative to This is the only thread where one can post such a post


That's plenty good reasons to not be getting the vaccine

[GrowlerG]

How does not getting vaccine help with people spamming the site with new deliberately mistitled threads.

If someone started 10 threads all over the site all on the same issue, it wouldn't be unreasonable to merge them and move them into the appropriate forum.

[Guburnor]

Locked. Please pick it up in the vaccine megathread