Vaccine passports could create 'two-tier society'

[knownunknown]

I would say it's inaccurately worded. But it's common knowledge that vaccinated can still spread a virus. Long before the New variant appeared.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2021 ... d-covid-19

I'd agree with you. The language of 'can' and 'can't' doesn't apply here. A high virus load leads to a much higher chance of trasmission. Vaccinated individuals infected with the alpha variant had very low virus loads. This is not the same with the delta variant as we are seeing very high virus loads.

There is evidence that vaccination significantly reduces viral load and symptomatic/asymptomatic infections in vaccinated individuals, which could translate into reduced transmission, although the vaccine efficacy varies by vaccine product and target group. In light of this fact, the total number of infections is expected to decrease significantly as vaccination coverage increases, provided that there is a match between the vaccine strains and the circulating virus strains. This will lead to decreased transmission overall.

This was a report from the ECDC from March.

[GrowlerG]

The use of can't is factually wrong. Regardless of who said it. You've also used it the same way.

Well the big difference is now that the vaccinated people can also spread the disease with this delta variants that didn't happen before...

When talking about virus load. Yes it's higher. This is reflected in the lower effectiveness of vaccines in preventing transmission. But they still do have an effect on it. You're still more likely to get it in a roomful of unvaccinated people then a roomful of vaccinated people. You're also much less likely to get sick from it and much less severely if vaccinated. That hasn't changed.

Herd immunity is also about reducing the severity of a virus so we can return to normal. There is possibility that a booster will restore the higher protection against transmission.

[scooby]

The use of can't is factually wrong. Regardless of who said it. You've also used it the same way.



When talking about virus load. Yes it's higher. This is reflected in the lower effectiveness of vaccines in preventing transmission. But they still do have an effect on it. You're still more likely to get it in a roomful of unvaccinated people then a roomful of vaccinated people. You're also much less likely to get sick from it and much less severely if vaccinated. That hasn't changed.

Herd immunity is also about reducing the severity of a virus so we can return to normal. There is possibility that a booster will restore the higher protection against transmission.

There will be no herd immunity from the virus - you'll notice no government worldwide or the WHO are pushing for vaccine induced herd immunity - because it cannot be done. The virus is too infectious to ever be wiped out by leaky vaccines.

[GrowlerG]

There will be no herd immunity from the virus - you'll notice no government worldwide or the WHO are pushing for vaccine induced herd immunity - because it cannot be done. The virus is too infectious to ever be wiped out by leaky vaccines.

I'm open to correction but ...

Almost all (if not all) Vaccines are leaky.
Herd immunity does not always imply eradication is the only objective.
A level of herd immunity is how Vaccination work

If however you are saying no ones promising covid eradication solely though vaccination. Then yes.
Vaccination was never promised (AFAIK) as the silver bullet for Covid. Obviously I can't know if no one said it ever.

[knownunknown]

If however you are saying no ones promising covid eradication solely though vaccination. Then yes.
Vaccination was never promised (AFAIK) as the silver bullet for Covid. Obviously I can't know if no one said it ever.

The question of why as the Irish Times put it brilliant in an ad a few years back. Why are we implementing this two tier society? Why are we requiring people to have completed vaccination programs for 14 days before they can eat out in public?

I believe it was off the back of this data that was released back in March.

As of 14 March 2021, only one study was identified that directly investigated and reported on the effectiveness of
COVID-19 vaccine against transmission of SARS-CoV-2 to susceptible contacts from vaccinated cases. This study
is a register-based analysis from Scotland including 144 525 healthcare workers and 194 362 members of their
households. This analysis has shown that household members of healthcare workers vaccinated with a single
dose of either Pfizer or Astra Zeneca COVID-19 vaccine were at significantly reduced risk (HR=0.70; 95% CI:
0.63−0.78) of PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, and non-statistically significant reduced risk of
hospitalisation (0.77; 95% CI: 0.53-1.10), compared to household members of unvaccinated healthcare workers,
14 days after vaccination [42]. As household members of healthcare workers could also have been infected
through other routes, the reported 30% risk reduction for infection is probably an underestimate and could in
reality be as high as 60%. These findings are consistent with a substantial reduction in transmission risk from
fully-vaccinated individuals to susceptible contacts.

When this was true(with the Alpha variant) then creating these clean spaces seemed like a really good idea to me. We would eventually reach a herd type of immunity where vaccinated people had a very low chance of spreading the virus, thus they were the only ones that could meet up indoors.

This has all changed with the delta variant.

If we want to continue this 'two-tier society' I believe we should require a clean PCR test, these vaccine certificates are no long worth much. They no longer mean the person in possession of them has a much lower virus load if they are infected.

[removed italics]

[GrowlerG]

But is still true that the vaccinated are less likely to spread the virus. So it hasn't "all" changed. But it has changed

But I'll make your argument for you. Since I think you are focused on the wrong question.

A better argument, would be does the lower effectiveness of the current vaccines, in reducing the transmission of the delta variant. Invalidate the current restrictions. That is certainly open to debate. However I reckon its more likely they will increase restrictions rather than remove them entirely. But who knows. The Govt hasn't been a model of consistency.

[Guburnor]

Going to leave the last word here to Growler, and lock this. Please pick up the vaccine chat in the Vaccine megathread