Fugue wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:58 pm
Jeez, I doubt anyone ever has even vaguely suggested that Ukraine's people are all model citizens, or that there's no corruption. People just disagree with civilians (including children) being killed en masse for no reason. There's literally no reason for agreeing with that invasion (other than to be contrarian).
You don’t have to agree with the invasion to understand why it happened, which is much more akin to the Cuban missile crisis than Putin being hell bent on world domination like the media would have you believe.
From the US led ‘revolution of dignity’ ousting the democratically elected president Yanukovych to arming them with NATO weapons we crossed Putin’s clearly defined red lines many times. We would not put up with anyone crossing our red lines so why should he?
Had we not crossed these red lines so much then maybe the media narrative would be much closer to correct, but we did and the selective amnesia from the media class is an attempt to rewrite history with propaganda.
knownunknown wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:31 pm
You don’t have to agree with the invasion to understand why it happened, which is much more akin to the Cuban missile crisis than Putin being hell bent on world domination like the media would have you believe.
From the US led ‘revolution of dignity’ ousting the democratically elected president Yanukovych to arming them with NATO weapons we crossed Putin’s clearly defined red lines many times. We would not put up with anyone crossing our red lines so why should he?
Had we not crossed these red lines so much then maybe the media narrative would be much closer to correct, but we did and the selective amnesia from the media class is an attempt to rewrite history with propaganda.
But Putin has no right to place red lines on countries that isnt his own....it would be akin to the English saying what we can/can't do here, obviously we'd do all to go against them
The yanks and NATO aren't blameless and been a awlful scourge on the world this century,but it's not russian territory and Ukraine can do what they want within its borders imo
Russia is carrying on no different to the yanks/west have carried in in middle east/Libya this last 20 years (America actively presently manufacturing consent for a war with China is gross)......the hypocrisy as to how Russia is treated/sanctioned Vs how the US have been let away is awlful galling though
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
Mirabeau wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:40 pm
Sometimes it's hard to tell which incel I'm actually talking to.
They are all the same really.
Lol
There’s a place called boards that’s full of people like yourself that prefer to go off topic, wind people up and annoy everyone. It would suit you down to the ground.
Setanta wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:44 pm
But Putin has no right to place red lines on countries that isnt his own....it would be akin to the English saying what we can/can't do here, obviously we'd do all to go against them
The yanks and NATO aren't blameless and been a awlful scourge on the world this century,but it's not russian territory and Ukraine can do what they want within its borders imo
Russia is carrying on no different to the yanks/west have carried in in middle east/Libya this last 20 years (America actively presently manufacturing consent for a war with China is gross)......the hypocrisy as to how Russia is treated/sanctioned Vs how the US have been let away is awlful galling though
The US placed red lines on Cuba and NATO placed red lines in Syria which led to the uk and France firing missiles on it. I suppose it depends on how reasonable those lines are. The USSR and Russia have been clear on NATO encroachment to the east for decades.
If we joined a union that was opposed to Britain and prepared to put missiles within striking distance of London they would be well within their right to make that a red line because it’s something that endangers them.
Crimea was taken only after the ousting of Yankovych, a democratically elected president.
The whole NATO vs Ireland's Neutrality thing was being discussed on Newstalk this evening and poor old Kieran Cuddihy (3rd level graduate I presume) kept harping on about why would NATO want Ireland given the tiny, under-equipped state of the country's defence forces. With brains like that amongst our supposed 'intelligentsia' is it any wonder that we are being pushed evermore in the NATO direction by the political establishment. Kieran kept on about the ill-equipped defence forces until the glaringly obvious strategic value of Ireland for both bases and keeping an eye on the Western Approaches was pointed out to him by the ex.army guy he was interviewing. The basing of missiles and US air bases had not occurred to the poor lamb and he muttered something about the public not being too keen on that....Jeez, does he think that joining NATO means you get to add it after your name when send a letter or email.
knownunknown wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:52 pm
There’s a place called boards that’s full of people like yourself that prefer to go off topic, wind people up and annoy everyone. It would suit you down to the ground.
46a wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 1:45 am
I just want to get it on the record that i was not blinded by the propaganda like so many, Russia is the good guy in this conflict.
In the months ahead we will see posters deny they ever supported Ukraine , they will do this by not acknowledging any threads relating to it, they will simple try ignore and pretend it never happened.
Dont believe me? see the lack of discussion on the Pfizer trial data, posters would rater ignore than admit they where in the wrong
Seek help.
“I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire
Hopefully Russia can bring an end to the war soon. With the leaks coming from the US it seems that Ukraine are almost done. Once Zelensky's money laundering comes to light I expect him to go the way of Mussolini too.
weldoninhio wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:30 am
Hopefully Russia can bring an end to the war soon. With the leaks coming from the US it seems that Ukraine are almost done. Once Zelensky's money laundering comes to light I expect him to go the way of Mussolini too.
Get all the scammers out of our country also. Bleeding the country dry.
It’ll never be dry, with all the pissing and moaning from spiteful, hate filled xenophobic idiots.
Horrible small minded cowardly people who’d be beaten physically and intellectually by the average Ukranian woman, let alone by their men.
Awful people, labelling those in need as scammers, and never showing any intellect in arguing their case. Only ever throwing cheap comments online because they know their fellow countrymen would probably be the first ones to stick a fist in their mouths if they said that shit out loud.
Well dumbo, you knuckle dragging gobshite, let me put it in terms you’ll understand:
I hope you have a lonely and miserable life, full of suffering and tragedy, you horrible little prick.
JayZeus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:08 pm
Bleeding the country dry?
It’ll never be dry, with all the pissing and moaning from spiteful, hate filled xenophobic idiots.
Horrible small minded cowardly people who’d be beaten physically and intellectually by the average Ukranian woman, let alone by their men.
Awful people, labelling those in need as scammers, and never showing any intellect in arguing their case. Only ever throwing cheap comments online because they know their fellow countrymen would probably be the first ones to stick a fist in their mouths if they said that shit out loud.
Well dumbo, you knuckle dragging gobshite, let me put it in terms you’ll understand:
I hope you have a lonely and miserable life, full of suffering and tragedy, you horrible little prick.
You really need to think about what you post. I’m embarrassed for you.
Corruption in Ukraine government is not a new thing, its part of Ukrainian society to a high level, and always has been. And its not something thats going to disappear overnight
I'm just forever fascinated by the desire to make these debates binary. As if there's a 'good' and 'bad' label that can be assigned to one side or other.
The divisive problems on the planet are entirely based around various sides philosophical/religious/political beliefs and a concomitant imperialist desire to impose those values on their neighbours. There seems to be no understanding or acceptance of nuance in these situations. People feel the urgent need to assign black and white hats to simplify the proceedings.
Ukraine is unfortunate enough to sit right at the border between US and Russian interests. Neither side is 'good' or 'right' here and Ukraine is not an entirely virtuous and innocent victim. All sides have ulterior motives but the normal Ukrainian people are the victims.
It's the same everywhere you go; Israelis are evil and Palestinians are pure of heart; Trump voting conservatives ate their children but Hilary supporters were righteous and innocent; TERFs are literally killing trans folks and men in dresses are genuinely women.
I assume it's a common human desire to make arguments and debates simple and maybe a way for folks to avoid having to actually think about the complexities of a situation, but whenever faced with this phenomenon I assume the person is untroubled by deep thoughts and I tend not to take them very seriously. Binary simplicity can be exercised in scientific realms but outside of that it's a hallmark of creeping fundamentalism in many walks of life.
