Anyone still glued to this?

[CelticRambler]

The Ukr offensive is now ongoing for 3.75 months.
In that time Ukr has recovered less than 0.25% of the territory it is intent on taking back.
During that time they have lost thousands of military personnel as well as huge numbers of military hardware.

To put things in context, if Ukraine allows Russian to win, they'll lose 100% of their military and civilian personnel. Putin has said so - that wiping out every trace of Ukranianism is the ultimate objective of this "special military operation".

In the meantime, you seem to have become fixated with that percentage of territory graph you found a few weeks ago. Perhaps this (Ukrainian government) video will help you understand why they're not so bothered as you are:



Side note: the presentation includes a very clear indication that the Ukrainians will fight this war the way they think is best, not the way the Americans tell them to.

[isha]

WW2 is less than 80 years over. It is a complex story but the end result is Russia lost in excess of 20 - 30 million people, through war deaths and starvation, as they eventually fought against Germany on the ALLIED side. Russia also provided huge logistical support to the war effort. Without Russian aid, Nazism would not have been defeated.

On the physical side—men, material and money—the Soviets contributed about 62 per cent of Allied soldiers (491 divisions in 1945 versus 125 American/British), 57.5 per cent of all artillery, 45 per cent of tanks, 25.6 per cent of aircraft and 34.7 per cent of military expenditures.

The Canadian government has just apologised for giving Yaroslav Hunka two standing ovations in the parliament, while Zelensky was in situ. Hunka fought the Russians in a Ukrainian division that was known for its particular brutality. "The First Ukrainian Division was known as the Waffen-SS Galicia Division or the SS 14th Waffen Division, a voluntary unit under Nazi command".
Yes. In a remarkably ahistorical display the fevered parliamentarians stood and clapped like seals for an actual Nazi.

They have started to apologise now because the Jewish community has objected.

All this happened while Trudeau in around the same time delivered a frantic speech where for a moment he thought he was Churchill. The fecken eegit..

All of groovy peoplekind loves a good war it seems.

[95438756]

The Ukrainian VOLKSTURM led by the younger generation
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66881269

[95438756]

A real world Symbiotic Relationship in the art of war: Better for Ukraine than the Ukrainian media posting videos of imported tanks and planes being glorified and blessed before being destroyed in combat

[knownunknown]

Re : pipeline that was sabotaged.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... scientists

Probably done by someone who was pro-Ukraine, but without the knowledge of Kyiv.

If anyone once believed it was the Russians then you should seriously consider this new information and how it effects other information you have bought hook, line and sinker.

[Setanta]

Re : pipeline that was sabotaged.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... scientists

Probably done by someone who was pro-Ukraine, but without the knowledge of Kyiv.

If anyone once believed it was the Russians then you should seriously consider this new information and how it effects other information you have bought hook, line and sinker.

The yanks are the only ones,with mean,motive and opportunity to do this attack

It's surreal nonsense to entertain anyone else who deosnt fit the 3 essential criteria of investigation

[PureIsle]

A real world Symbiotic Relationship in the art of war: Better for Ukraine than the Ukrainian media posting videos of imported tanks and planes being glorified and blessed before being destroyed in combat

Taiwan is not a country as stated in this video.
It is an island and part of China.
There is but one China.
The dispute is between those governing the island of Taiwan and those governing mainland China.
They both claim jurisdiction over all/one China.

There is just too much BS in that video to take anything uttered as truthful.

[PureIsle]

This graphic is a rather condensed display of what went on in Ukr up to 15th Sept 2023, and might be of interest

Ukraine. Conflict Infographic. 568 days.

[Setanta]

Awlful stories coming out of Avdiivka....another bakhmut it seems.... thousands sent to their deaths in similar human waves to try overwhelm Ukraine defences.....who have learned from bakhmut and are now even better at slaughter

[PureIsle]

Awlful stories coming out of Avdiivka....another bakhmut it seems.... thousands sent to their deaths in similar human waves to try overwhelm Ukraine defences.....who have learned from bakhmut and are now even better at slaughter

It is beginning to look like they will be surrounded in Avdiivka if the Ru advances continue.
They will then have to decide to give up or die .... or so it looks to me.

[quodec]

Both Zelensky and Orban attended the inauguration of the new Argentinian president over the weekend. Both were placed suspiciously close together and words were exchanged. Anyone able to lipread?

[PureIsle]

It appears that the public in the EU is beginning to get some information from the media that was not mentioned previously. For instance ...

German media have estimated the daily losses of the Ukrainian armed forces.
According to the Focus newspaper, the Ukrainian army loses (daily average) about 800 people per day.
In order to maintain the army's strength, the AFU command needs to recruit 20,000 new fighters per month, the journalists said.

At the same time the Ukr military wants ~450K people to be mobilised .... near enough the size of the US fighting forces. That does not seem possible considering they have to 'press gang' people to send to the front lines.

Meanwhile, RF has made it clear that Ukr having failed to negotiate, have now passed the time for negotiation. For RF complete capitulation is what is wanted.

As I read it that would mean not only losing all territory now occupied, but also losing all the Ukr coast including Odessa as well as other territories West of the present front lines.

It is all a far cry from "Ukraine is winning" or "Ukraine has won".

IMO the only question is 'how big will Ukraine be at the end of this?", if it manages to still exist. Other countries are eyeing up other parts with a view to annexing them ....... such as Poland to the West.

[JayZeus]

<sheite snipped>

IMO the only question is 'how big will Ukraine be at the end of this?", if it manages to still exist. Other countries are eyeing up other parts with a view to annexing them ....... such as Poland to the West.

Your only question is a stupid question. If you paid any attention at all to credible, well informed official sources, you’d realise that’s a dopey question to be asking.

And as for Poland looking to annex Ukraine?

Lay off the Vodka for a few days you kremlin parroting Mitty.

[kadman]

I see we have descended into abusing and insulting posters, instead of engaging in comment, and proving or disproving factual sources, with factual sources. Where ever they are, as its impossible to know which was which.

It seems to be the case that Pureisle is the target on this and other threads. I think ye need to use a different game plan rather than insults. As it doesn't do much for your argument .

[knownunknown]

Reports of Poland annexing Ukraine are comical because of the amount of aid Poland has given Ukraine throughout the conflict. They also have a long history and really empathise with Ukraine’s current struggle. Taking parts of the country under their sphere of influence(and thus natos) should Russia seize Kiev is a far cry from annexing. Mis using words for political effect is propaganda.

They have taken in the most Ukrainian refugees as well as pledging the sixth most military aid. Talks off Poland annexing Ukraine should not be taken seriously because all evidence suggests otherwise.

This propaganda is coming from a country that is actually trying to annex Ukraine as we speak and should be taken at least with a grain of salt and not digested wholesale without giving it proper consideration.

[PureIsle]

I see we have descended into abusing and insulting posters, instead of engaging in comment, and proving or disproving factual sources, with factual sources. Where ever they are, as its impossible to know which was which.

It seems to be the case that Pureisle is the target on this and other threads. I think ye need to use a different game plan rather than insults. As it doesn't do much for your argument .

Oh ignore them Kadman. Ad-hominem attacks are just a waste of space and undeserving even of an acknowledgement.
The more they post as they have been, the more they show themselves up for what they are.

[PureIsle]

Reports of Poland annexing Ukraine are comical because of the amount of aid Poland has given Ukraine throughout the conflict. They also have a long history and really empathise with Ukraine’s current struggle. Taking parts of the country under their sphere of influence(and thus natos) should Russia seize Kiev is a far cry from annexing. Mis using words for political effect is propaganda.

They have taken in the most Ukrainian refugees as well as pledging the sixth most military aid. Talks off Poland annexing Ukraine should not be taken seriously because all evidence suggests otherwise.

This propaganda is coming from a country that is actually trying to annex Ukraine as we speak and should be taken at least with a grain of salt and not digested wholesale without giving it proper consideration.

I very much doubt Rf would seize Kiev even if it could.
If Rf completely defeats Ukr then it could have a great influence on the future of Ukr, but I very much doubt Rf would want to include Kiev in Rf.

Lviv and the Galacia area of Ukr was historically in Polish control, and if Ukr falls then I can well imagine Poland wanting to take back that area under its control. It could be even seen as compensation for the aid supplied to Ukr.

There are other players in that game also, depending on the state of Ukr when this conflict eventually stops. Hungary and Romania for instance. Would they not want to take back control of their historical areas, which still have high numbers of people who consider themselves Hungarian or Romanian? I believe they would. Maybe I am wrong.

IMO it really depends on how the conflict ends. If Ukr is completely defeated it could well end up being just the bit left after its neighbours have each taken their slice.
If not completely defeated, then Ukr has a much better chance of retaining all of Western Ukr.

[PureIsle]

The following targets were hit this morning, Moscow time.

- Lviv - a NATO mercenary base, energy and warehouses.
- Khmelnitsky - airfield, airplanes, warehouses
- Kyiv - factories, energy
- Kharkov - airfield, warehouses, energy
- Odessa - terminals, warehouses, ports
- Nikolaev - airfield, port, fuel terminals, control headquarters
- Kherson - air defense missile system sites, warehouses, equipment
- Dnepropetrovsk - Yuzhmash, airfield
- Kanatop (Sumskaya) - air defense, equipment warehouses, energy.
- Zaporozhye - air defense systems, terminals, air defense and air defense systems

A friend had told me just before Xmas that Rf was running very low on missiles as evidenced by the fact that very few were used in the preceding period.
Considering the comprehensive battering Ukr received this morning it might seem that the missile quantity 'crisis' is over.

The sooner this conflict is over the better for everyone, regardless who occupies what territory.
At least the deaths and injuries due to the conflict will cease.

[marhay70]

The following targets were hit this morning, Moscow time.

- Lviv - a NATO mercenary base, energy and warehouses.
- Khmelnitsky - airfield, airplanes, warehouses
- Kyiv - factories, energy
- Kharkov - airfield, warehouses, energy
- Odessa - terminals, warehouses, ports
- Nikolaev - airfield, port, fuel terminals, control headquarters
- Kherson - air defense missile system sites, warehouses, equipment
- Dnepropetrovsk - Yuzhmash, airfield
- Kanatop (Sumskaya) - air defense, equipment warehouses, energy.
- Zaporozhye - air defense systems, terminals, air defense and air defense systems

A friend had told me just before Xmas that Rf was running very low on missiles as evidenced by the fact that very few were used in the preceding period.
Considering the comprehensive battering Ukr received this morning it might seem that the missile quantity 'crisis' is over.

The sooner this conflict is over the better for everyone, regardless who occupies what territory.
At least the deaths and injuries due to the conflict will cease.

Feel better now, Ivan?

[PureIsle]

Ukr.'s response to the battering it received was a concerted bombing of Belgorod city, deliberately targeting civilians.

This is a war crime and a terrorist act.
Not unexpected I guess as Ukr has been committing similar acts on Donetsk city for years.

Do these acts make Ukr a 'terrorist state'?

[Del.Monte]

Incidentally, I have had my suspicions about the Ukrainian government's right-wing policies reinforced in recent days from listening to a number of their politicians...truly depressing and as I said from Day,1, two former Soviet states at war with each other and we owe neither side anything. It's not that many years ago that the Ukrainians were armed to teeth with nukes aimed at us.

As relevant as when I first posted. They should have been left off to settle their differences without Western interference but there's no profit in that for the arms manufacturers or for the clowns behind the 'European Project '.

[jmayo]

I see we have descended into abusing and insulting posters, instead of engaging in comment, and proving or disproving factual sources, with factual sources. Where ever they are, as its impossible to know which was which.

It seems to be the case that Pureisle is the target on this and other threads. I think ye need to use a different game plan rather than insults. As it doesn't do much for your argument .

Ehh that poster doesn't engage when asked hard inconvenient questions so I decided to do myself a favour and have them on ignore.

They don't answer for themselves so have you taken it upon yourself to now speak for them?

[jmayo]

As relevant as when I first posted. They should have been left off to settle their differences without Western interference but there's no profit in that for the arms manufacturers or for the clowns behind the 'European Project '.

So would you have done a Chamberlain and sacrificed Ukraine?
What would you then do when they are enboldened enough to go for the Batlic states?
After all they were also part of Soviet Union and hell the old Russian Empire.

[Del.Monte]

So would you have done a Chamberlain and sacrificed Ukraine?
What would you then do when they are enboldened enough to go for the Batlic states?
After all they were also part of Soviet Union and hell the old Russian Empire.

NATO is NATO, for good or for bad, and an attack on a Baltic stake leads directly to WW.III. and the unspeakable consequences for us all. Russia and its squabble with Ukraine would have been over months ago if it had not been for the interference of the West. I have no time for Russia. Ukraine or a lot of the Warsaw Pact countries and they can all go to hell as far as I'm concerned. The world was a safer place before the end of the Cold War.

Do you think Churchill and his fellow travellers would have stood up against Hitler if the Germans had had a massive nuclear arsenal in their toolkit?

[jmayo]

NATO is NATO, for good or for bad, and an attack on a Baltic stake leads directly to WW.III. and the unspeakable consequences for us all. Russia and its squabble with Ukraine would have been over months ago if it had not been for the interference of the West. I have no time for Russia. Ukraine or a lot of the Warsaw Pact countries and they can all go to hell as far as I'm concerned. The world was a safer place before the end of the Cold War.

Do you think Churchill and his fellow travellers would have stood up against Hitler if the Germans had had a massive nuclear arsenal in their toolkit?

Yeah but would Hitler have invaded Poland knowing it had a deal with Britain & France who also had nuclear weapons?

You can play whatifs until the cows come home.
I don't think Ukraine should have been thrown to the wolves.

Now that doesn't mean I can't see how Ukraine has been an overly corrupt entity ever since independence.
And I would guess it most of the people who would have been the corrupt are the ones that fled a lot of which are now resident in our country.
If you always played fast and loose with ethical obligations there is very good chance you would not want to stick around to fight for anything or anyone bar yourself and would relish the opportunity to get a nice chunk of money for nothing in a Western country.