Anyone still glued to this?

[isha]

Hmmm, we are a bit late but I nominate you Celtic as a peace negotiator for the Treaty of Versailles.

[PureIsle]

Do you seriously believe any information provided by Russia and Russia-approved sources can be relied upon?

Thanks for the head's up ... I was unaware that the BBC is one of the "Russia-approved sources".

... the fact still remains that no-one ever indicated they were going to invade Russia,

As I posted even Stoltenberg admitted that Ru promised not to invade if NATO ceased its expansion.
Why you refuse to acknowledge this is beyond comprehension.

... Putin himself has said that his real motivation for this invasion is to wipe the Ukrainian people out of history so that he can expand the Russian empire as far west as the old Soviet Union.

I invite you to prove this statement by posting a link to a video where he says this. I have not seen, heard or read any such statement from Putin so your link will be an education for me and no doubt a lot of others too.

Since when has anyone on "the other side" refused to entertain peace talks?

Since 2014, but more recently since Zelensky passed a law forbidding it.

But of course none of this matters anyway because, as you posted, Ukraine has already won.

[CelticRambler]

Thanks for the head's up ... I was unaware that the BBC is one of the "Russia-approved sources".

You obviously missed the bit where it says "BBC Russia". They re-broadcast the same Kremlin approved misinformation as every other Russia-based agency, because if they don't, they're kicked out.

Besides, if you look at what they're saying and who they're counting, the figures are intensely massaged, removing everyone who could possibly be considered not to be a Russian soldier. And, of course, they only count the ones they've bothered to bring back and bury, whereas we know there's an official policy of not collecting their wounded and dead from the battlefield (not to mention those of whom there are literally no remains).

All other sources confirm that the Ukrainian MOD figures are "pretty close" to the real number of Russian soldier deaths - about 275k at the moment, something which is backed up by the Russians' need to conscript yet another several hundred thousand citizens next month, and the fact that they've pulled about 80% of their active service members away from the border with Norway and Finland - you know, actual NATO countries.

It's quite funny, though, how you've managed to "not hear" so many of Putin's public statements when they've been reported across multiple mainstream and "alternative" media platforms over the last year, and yet you manage to regurgitate everything from the Kremlin propaganda playbook right on cue. The walls of your bubble must be fierce thick.

[DeletedUser]

You obviously missed the bit where it says "BBC Russia". They re-broadcast the same Kremlin approved misinformation as every other Russia-based agency, because if they don't, they're kicked out.

Besides, if you look at what they're saying and who they're counting, the figures are intensely massaged, removing everyone who could possibly be considered not to be a Russian soldier. And, of course, they only count the ones they've bothered to bring back and bury, whereas we know there's an official policy of not collecting their wounded and dead from the battlefield (not to mention those of whom there are literally no remains).

All other sources confirm that the Ukrainian MOD figures are "pretty close" to the real number of Russian soldier deaths - about 275k at the moment, something which is backed up by the Russians' need to conscript yet another several hundred thousand citizens next month, and the fact that they've pulled about 80% of their active service members away from the border with Norway and Finland - you know, actual NATO countries.

It's quite funny, though, how you've managed to "not hear" so many of Putin's public statements when they've been reported across multiple mainstream and "alternative" media platforms over the last year, and yet you manage to regurgitate everything from the Kremlin propaganda playbook right on cue. The walls of your bubble must be fierce thick.

You have the patience of a saint trying to speak sense to a conspiracy theorist CR!!

[isha]

I think calling people who have different opinions conspiracy theorists is unhelpful, though ironically it is the global government-sanctioned go to modus operandi to quell all opinions that challenge permitted state controlled narratives.

As far as the opinion that all NATO / US activity good, all Russia activity bad goes - there are many intelligent commentators, even voices in the Pentagon, who have questioned the "western" activity or the course of this war in Ukraine for quite some time. I will not be surprised to eventually see negotiations that will start from positions that are similar if not identical to positions that could have been proposed last year before the slaughter accumulated. Too late for Ukraine though which is being sacrificed in a proxy war.

But in the meantime Slava Ukraine shout the armchair warriors as if war is good and holy. I'm amazed at what has become of supposed leftists.
Leftists used to be the peaceniks.

[kadman]

Conspiracy theorist is something used to call some one in the hope that it arouses suspicions. of what they are saying is untrue. Its a phrase used commonly when you cant take the time to debate the point raised.
Of course if you take the time to delve further you are likely to find that many things thought to be conspiracy theories were in fact attached to some basis of truth.

The Us for instance said it was untrue that any massacres took place by their forces in vietnam not so long ago. It turned out that there were many. In reality there were hundreds and maybe thousands massacred by them, but you would not have seen that on any western media at the time, but now its a historical fact. And worse that many of those females found dead at these massacre sites showed significant signs of torture and rape, women and children. But the US strongly denied it at the time.

Its going to become extremely hard to sort the truth from the lies, and the assumption that only the western media have the truth, and everything else that doesn't sing the western narrative is a laugh. They all lie, west and east, most of the time.

[kadman]

When the truth was revealed en masse by Julian Assange, the west collaborated to persecute and silence him all across the media. That should tell you everything about what you see on the censored news.

[DeletedUser]

When the truth was revealed en masse by Julian Assange, the west collaborated to persecute and silence him all across the media. That should tell you everything about what you see on the censored news.

Ah so some sex offenders are worthy of defence but others are not ?

[CelticRambler]

The Us for instance said it was untrue that any massacres took place by their forces in vietnam not so long ago. It turned out that there were many. In reality there were hundreds and maybe thousands massacred by them, but you would not have seen that on any western media at the time, but now its a historical fact. And worse that many of those females found dead at these massacre sites showed significant signs of torture and rape, women and children. But the US strongly denied it at the time.

Its going to become extremely hard to sort the truth from the lies, and the assumption that only the western media have the truth, and everything else that doesn't sing the western narrative is a laugh. They all lie, west and east, most of the time.

The difference in this war compared to WW2, Vietnam and other "historical" conflicts is that there's a heck of a lot more independent observation going on, and that's something the Russians don't seem to have really got to grips with.

Back in the 1900s, people were massacred and it was easy to cover up, because dead men tell no tales and the perpetrators could spin any narrative they wanted. Now, we have civilians reporting air-strikes on Russian-controlled territory, posting videos of the damage inflicted or at least a distant view of the aftermath, and literally within minutes various non-combatant individuals will have pinpointed the location and identified what military assets were known to have been there the day before and speculating on the likely damage. Then Russia comes out and says there was no air strike. Well, there was, but all the drones/missiles were shot down and no-one was hurt, nothing was damaged. Well, maybe there was some damage from falling debris. Oh, and maybe one guy was injured. Eh, well, okay, yeah, one building was completely destroyed too. But there was no-one inside. Well, apart from a few guards on duty and no, the fact that twenty ambulances were seen carting people off to hospital was pure coincidence and absolutely nothing to do with the huge explosion. What's that, the death notice for General Wotiznameski? Oh, yeah, he was there at the time ...

Every. Single. Week.

This week it's the ship-yard that wasn't hit, well it was a bit, but no serious damage ... and now we have photos of the ship cut in half and the sub with two massive holes in it but still you get people like PureIsle saying they trust what these perpetural liars are saying because ... well, they never say why they trust them - it's just blind faith, to the extent that it's even predictable now. "Darth Putin" is barely a parody any more, and PureIsle is 2/5ths of the way through the disinformation syllabus published last month (a list of five talking points that would be pushed by the Kremlin this autumn in an attempt to undermine support for Ukraine as Russias forces get weaker).

At least on the Ukrainian side there's some willingness to backtrack on initial knee-jerk responses and admit that they may have fkkd up (e.g. the missile strike on the market a fortnight ago), and every time there's a chance to corroborate the macro information that's been released, it turns out to be pretty accurate. I think the Ukrainian military/government knows full well that there's an army of interested parties watching on from the cybersidelines, and there's little point engaging in cover-ups or unrealistic exaggerations - because they've got their eye on EU membership, and building up their trustworthiness starts now.

[kadman]

I would be taking the " Truth" from the westerm media, thats spearheaded by the Us, with a large pinch of salt, considering that this bastion of truthful endeavour currently has some of its government celebrities facing the US judicial system for transgressions while in political office.
And now with the new office for misinformation, and what it is and what its not, we will never be able to know what is and whats not truthful anymore.
In the west, the media will give us their spin, and the east will be the same, we will be treated like mushrooms and kept in the dark and fed bullshit.The truth wont ever be for us to decide what it is, anymore.

[isha]

Have you heard of Sarah Cirillo, Celtic?

Sarah Ashton-Cirillo[c] (born 9 July 1977), formerly Sarah Cirillo and Sarah Ashton, is an American former journalist serving as a spokesperson for Ukraine's Territorial Defense Forces, in which she is a junior sergeant. She arrived in Ukraine in March 2022, shortly after the full-scale Russian invasion, and has variously served as a war correspondent, a representative in aid negotiations, a civilian analyst with the Ministry of Defense, and a combat medic

Cirillo is an actual official spokesperson for the Territorial Defence Forces in Ukraine. The Territorial Defence Forces are the military reserve component of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

This is Sarah. I am blocked on X by Sarah so I can not link to their own posts. I don't know what manner of poster this person is - I'm just using the video. There are rabid warmongers on both sides of this war. I dislike ALL OF THEM. ALL.

[CelticRambler]

Have you heard of Sarah Cirillo, Celtic?

Yeah. He/she/it was (apparently) recruited by the Ukranians specifically to wind up the Russians (on account of being trans) and to draw the attention of a certain demographic in the US (and elsewhere) to the widespread infiltration of Russian propaganda in western media. From the reaction to the recent videos, that'd be another "mission accomplished" ...

I would be taking the " Truth" from the westerm media, thats spearheaded by the Us, with a large pinch of salt,

But there's no "western media" involved here: it's ordinary(ish) people using freely-available satellite images and a host of other tools - as well as traditional human brainpower - to analyse contradicting reports and identify those that are factually coherent. Was there an attack - yes/no? All the available evidence (time-stamped and geo-located photos and videos) says "yes" even though the "usually reliable" Russian general says "no" ; did the drones/missiles hit a significant target - yes/no? Well, the satellite images from this morning show that there's a massive black scorch mark where there was an intact air-defence system yesterday, even though the "usually reliable" Russian spokesman says nothing happened.

There was an attack on (yet another) Black Sea Fleet ship on the 14th. Didn't happen, say the Russians, and even though it didn't happen, we blew up all the kamikaze drones. Again, within minutes of the first video being published showing the Russians destroying the drone before it got close enough to cause damage, someone spotted that there was already a burning hole in the targetted ship. And whaddyaknow, five days later it's confirmed by both the Russians and the Ukranians that yes, the ship has a hole 50x100cm in its flank and is now out of the game (didn't even last a year since entering service, by the way).

Similarly, you can buy access to commercial satellites and have a look for yourself. Why are there suddenly a hell of a lot fewer ships in Sevastopol than there were last week? Could it be the same reason as there are suddenly a hell of a lot fewer bombers on the airfields between St. Petersburg and Rostov-on-Dan? There's scope for speculation as to the why (even if "because Ukraine has been dropping bombs on them" seems most likely) but there's feck all room for disputing that those ships and aircraft are gone. Same as the soliders up in the north. Same as the air-defence in Siberia and facing Japan. Same as the "peacekeepers" in Armenia.

This war is sucking in the whole of Russia's armed forces, and Ukraine still haven't fully committed their reserves or their newly acquired equipment. Putin has secured his place in history, even if its on the back of the most collosssal fckup ... so why should any Ukrainian give up a single square centimetre of their own land to pacify him?

[kadman]

Hey CR
read the post before your one and then keep telling yourself western media have no influence
onto the news coming out of the war.

[PureIsle]

...
but still you get people like PureIsle saying they trust what these perpetural liars are saying because ...
...

That is yet another of your blatant lies ...... yes I call it a lie.

I have asked for some semblance of proof for some of your other statements but you have always ignored the request.
I have even posted video disproving some of your lies, but again you ignore it.

I have also posted several times that neither side's utterances can be trusted.
But of course you choose to ignore that also.

This time I demand a retraction of your lie or else post a quote of mine that proves your accusation.

This has gone beyond normal debate and is unacceptable.

[CelticRambler]

Hey CR
read the post before your one and then keep telling yourself western media have no influence
onto the news coming out of the war.

I didn't say that (western) media have no influence; I said that it is possible to bypass corporate media organisations and literally look for yourself at the situation in near-enough real-time. And when some time has elapsed, we consistently find that 99% of what Russia says about any physical or spatial aspect of the conflict is 100% untrue.

Anyhow, I'll leave ye in peace now for a bit. Have a 600km commute ahead of me this evening.

[kadman]

I didn't say that (western) media have no influence; I said that it is possible to bypass corporate media organisations and literally look for yourself at the situation in near-enough real-time. And when some time has elapsed, we consistently find that 99% of what Russia says about any physical or spatial aspect of the conflict is 100% untrue.

Anyhow, I'll leave ye in peace now for a bit. Have a 600km commute ahead of me this evening.

If you get near the front, I would trust your onsite evaluation above all the western media we are currently forced to assess.

Safe journey.

[kadman]

Ah so some sex offenders are worthy of defence but others are not ?

I presume you are referring to Julian Assange

I never knew he was actually convicted of rape, I must have missed that, can you post a link to that for me thanks.

[95438756]

Sleepy Joe sez the world should unite,





May God help us.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-66835995

[95438756]

Biden you CLOWN.

And because US is so far away from the conflict?

[DeletedUser]

I presume you are referring to Julian Assange

I never knew he was actually convicted of rape, I must have missed that, can you post a link to that for me thanks.

Russell Brand has not been convicted and neither was Jimmy Savile. Yet it is quite acceptable to describe both as sex offenders.

[knownunknown]

Russell Brand has not been convicted and neither was Jimmy Savile. Yet it is quite acceptable to describe both as sex offenders.

Assange was accused by one woman of not wearing a condom during intercourse, which does amount to rape in Sweden. Although not convicted Saville had hundreds of people telling the same stories about him. A criminal investigation into Seville’s activities led to 7 more prosecutions. Of course he was dead at the time which is how he avoided it,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yewtree

[DeletedUser]

Assange was accused by one woman of not wearing a condom during intercourse, which does amount to rape in Sweden. Although not convicted Saville had hundreds of people telling the same stories about him. A criminal investigation into Seville’s activities led to 7 more prosecutions. Of course he was dead at the time which is how he avoided it,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yewtree

I believe it is called “stealthing” and you are spot on - it is rape in Swedish law.

Assange is a sex offender - I stand by it.

[Setanta]

Zelensky at the UN talking peace,but refusing to meet russians

I no bother supporting Ukraine,but seems a deeply deeply unpleasant individual and any politian queuing up to be associated with him (like our own going for photo-ops to Kiev) will in long term regret it

[PureIsle]

Zelensky at the UN talking peace,but refusing to meet russians

I no bother supporting Ukraine,but seems a deeply deeply unpleasant individual and any politian queuing up to be associated with him (like our own going for photo-ops to Kiev) will in long term regret it

We can only hope!

Meanwhile Zelensky has further troubles at home

The Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valery Zaluzhny may become a person involved in a criminal case on the abandonment of the south of Ukraine

— see the BBC Ukrainian service.

According to media reports, the investigation has been going on for a year and a half, the commander-in-chief has already talked with investigators.

[CelticRambler]

— the BBC Ukrainian service.

According to media reports, the investigation has been going on for a year and a half, the commander-in-chief has already talked with investigators.

How about providing an actual link to the BBC Ukranian service story, instead of reposting allegations rehashed by the Russian media and attributed to the BBC?

Unless you believe that google is in on the conspiracy theory, every single instance of that phrase you've posted is found on a Russian media site, and only on Russian media sites. There is no trace of it on any BBC site that I can find, so let's see if you can show that you know how to check that you're not re-posting Kremlin propaganda.