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Anyone still glued to this?

News, geopolitics, impact, consequences etc from the Ukraine Russia conflict
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#76

Post by isha »

We don't have to look as far as Russia to find mass rape as a tool of war, nor as far back as WWII. Serbia, which is an EU candidate member state, kept camps of Bosniak Muslim women and girls, and it's estimated that up to 50,000 (likely more, as many hid it) war crime rapes occurred in the early 1990s there. Sexual enslavement was part of the war campaign.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_du ... ion%20camp.
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CelticRambler
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#77

Post by CelticRambler »

isha wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:30 am perhaps NATO should be seen as another anachronistic old beast that lived too long. It is a military alliance, a very powerful one, that benefits above all armaments manufacturers and war mongers. ... NATO rubbing it's flank up against Russia, with installations, armaments, drills etc was always going to be trouble.
Maybe, maybe not, but what's that got to do with the conflict in Ukraine? Putin never said this invasion was anything to do with NATO. It was about de-nazifying Ukraine, and restoring the cultural and ethnic integrity of Mother Russia right up to her historical borders. According to Putin.

Military alliances are. That's the long and the short of it. Right now, there's a (powerful?) military alliance conducting drills and war games on the Far Eastern flanks of Russia. The only difference between that one and NATO is Russia's there, hanging off China's coat-tails in a desperate attempt to be seen to be "powerful".

Trying to simultaneously blame NATO for provoking Putin and demand that NATO "pull back" from a war it's not fighting, but to which it's contributing resources at the explicit request of Ukraine, is submissive appeasement. Like telling the battered wife that she should be thankful she has a husband to cook for, and would she like some rashers to cook for his lunch? :roll:
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#78

Post by 95438756 »

....oh look a "sweetner"
And Don't forget the Wagner ex prisoners will be the canon fodder here
BBC News - Ukraine war: Russia reveals exemptions as men flee call-up
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63005406
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#79

Post by Del.Monte »

I heard on the RTE lunchtime news that when the nonsense referendums confirm that the breakaway parts of Ukraine are part of Mother Russia Putin will regard attacks there by Ukrainian forces as attacks on Russia and the gloves will be off. Biden has replied by saying that NATO may then send forces into the Ukraine...the whole thing is so predictable that it would be laughable if wasn't a threat to the existence of all life on the planet.
The Chinese, Indian, Iranian and North Korean regimes who love Putin must know something about surviving a Nuclear Winter that the rest of us don't.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#80

Post by 95438756 »

In occupied areas of Ukraine you can vote in the comfort of your own home, a Russian soldier will visit you with a referendum voting document.

mmm.

President Putin of Russia with a seat on the UN security council
BBC News - Ukraine 'referendums': Soldiers go door-to-door for votes in polls
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63013356
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#81

Post by Del.Monte »

And just to be helpful the form has been pre-printed with your vote indicated.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#82

Post by CelticRambler »

Del.Monte wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:50 pm I heard on the RTE lunchtime news that when the nonsense referendums confirm that the breakaway parts of Ukraine are part of Mother Russia Putin will regard attacks there by Ukrainian forces as attacks on Russia and the gloves will be off.
Yeah, right. Funny how this is the current spin being put on things, when Ukraine has been launching attacks on the supposedly "Russian" Crimea, forcing the Russians to pull their Black Sea Fleet out of Sevastopol for its own protection, and there have been numerous strikes at sites in the undisputedly Russian territory in and around Belgorod.

And Hard-man Putin still hasn't figured out where his hands are, let alone how to get the gloves off.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#83

Post by knownunknown »

Interesting short interview of Jordan Peterson with Piers Morgan. Makes the point, well, that our dear departed friend was also making.

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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#84

Post by isha »

I agree with the points he makes.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#85

Post by kadman »

isha wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:41 am I agree with the points he makes.
On the ball as usual
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#86

Post by Mirabeau »

I just watched Mickey Martins address to the UN Assembly.
Heavens, he's gotten awful tough. I'd say Putin's shaking in his dead-baby-seal slippers.
Our suddenly fearless leader should STFU and continue our tradition of cautious diplomacy.
It's possible to condemn without acting ridiculous.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#87

Post by isha »

Mirabeau wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:52 am I just watched Mickey Martins address to the UN Assembly.
Heavens, he's gotten awful tough. I'd say Putin's shaking in his dead-baby-seal slippers.
Our suddenly fearless leader should STFU and continue our tradition of cautious diplomacy.
It's possible to condemn without acting ridiculous.
Since the very beginning of this horrible war, Michael Martin's alpha male call-out posturing has been embarrassing.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#88

Post by isha »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.co ... s-12706208
The Nord Stream pipeline network, part of which supplies Germany with gas from Russia, has been damaged in three places, its operator has said.

The damage to the system on the bed of the Baltic Sea - all caused in one day - was "unprecedented", Nord Stream AG added.

The Kremlin said it could not rule out sabotage as a cause of the damage, with spokesman Dmitry Peskov describing developments as "very concerning news".

Poland's Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki described it as an "act of sabotage", while the Danish energy authority agreed it could be a deliberate act, as any event like this was "extremely rare".

And a European security source told Reuters: "There are some indications that it is deliberate damage. You have to ask: Who would profit?"

It comes as a reading from a nearby seismograph, which records vibrations on the planet's surface, was found to show spikes at similar times to when the losses in pressure in the pipes were first recorded, according to a German geology research centre.
I doubt Russia would blow up the Nord Stream pipelines. It's literally them shooting themselves in their feet.
Back in February Biden said that the Nord Stream pipeline 2 would not be allowed if Russian troops entered Ukraine.
Seismology labs in Sweden recorded the blasts as equivalent to 2.3 magnitude earthquake.
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#89

Post by isha »

Tweet just now by a Polish MEP. I will post a screenshot if he deletes it. Kinda mad.

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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#90

Post by knownunknown »

isha wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:40 pm https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.co ... s-12706208


I doubt Russia would blow up the Nord Stream pipelines. It's literally them shooting themselves in their feet.
Back in February Biden said that the Nord Stream pipeline 2 would not be allowed if Russian troops entered Ukraine.
Seismology labs in Sweden recorded the blasts as equivalent to 2.3 magnitude earthquake.
Link didn’t work for me, https://news.sky.com/story/kremlin-says ... s-12706208)

I was just reading on planks how this is all Trump’s fault, of course it is, he probably had the help of Gemma o Doherty and Tommy Robinson.

This is what he said four years ago

Germany will become totally dependent on Russian energy if it does not immediately change course. Here in the Western Hemisphere, we are committed to maintaining our independence from the encroachment of expansionist foreign powers.

Germany, as far as I’m concerned, is captive to Russia because it’s getting so much of its energy from Russia. We have to talk about the billions and billions of dollars that’s being paid to the country we’re supposed to be protecting you against.”
The response was laughter, with the WaPo noting this is what would be remembered, the laughter, they were right but just in completely the wrong sense. Open incognito and hit stop before page finishes loading https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... t-smirked/)

So while nato was expanding with missiles in more and more countries they were also buying all of the cheap Russian energy which Putin was using to fund a war. These policies combined can only be described as war mongering. Pushing back the borders against Russia while also filling their coffers, the policies of a madman.

Nato wrote to Germany about the first ever pipeline in the 70’s citing security concerns(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... ord-stream).
They were told at the time that their reliance on this energy would never exceed 10%. At the beginning of the war it was “more than half”.


Germany paid €8.3billion to Russian within the first two months after the war began for energy. That’s about 1/5 of American defence spending per year(500$billion).
In that time, EU countries are estimated to have paid a total of €39bn for Russian energy, more than double the sum they have given to help Ukraine defend itself. The irony is painful. “For thirty years, Germans lectured Ukrainians about fascism,” the historian Timothy Snyder wrote recently. “When fascism actually arrived, Germans funded it, and Ukrainians died fighting it.”
Who benefits from the destroyed pipelines? The US, it means the enemy they are fighting is weaker, the sanctions might actually have some effect. It was the Putin who switched off the pipeline a few weeks ago, playing hardball with europe. That shows his position of strength and our position of weakness, The US doesn’t have to worry so much about retaliation, europe does as Russia’s neighbours. Now that the gloves are off an easy target might be undersea cables(https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... sea-cables)

US short sighted policies has led to them blowing up pipelines that supply energy to Europe(which was Europe’s fault in the first place), but …but ……..Putin.
Last edited by knownunknown on Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#91

Post by isha »

I don't know who has blown them up. I'm presuming blown up, as accident seems improbable.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#92

Post by knownunknown »

isha wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:35 pm I don't know who has blown them up. I'm presuming blown up, as accident seems improbable.
“Powerful subsea blasts” were reported, damaged in three separate places in one day. We’d still be buying the gas coming through there if Putin hadn’t switched it off a few weeks ago. Who profits is the question in the article from sky news… follow the money as they say.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#93

Post by knownunknown »

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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#94

Post by Hairy-Joe »

I'm thinking was it done for multiple reasons
* Stopping Europe buying Russian gas to make sure Europe buys "someone's else's" gas?
* Making sure some in Europe can't go back on their word and making sure Russian gas cant be bought
* Cutting off Russia's source of money if Russia decides to reopen the pipework?

As for the right or wrong of it, I'm kinda "meh"...
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#95

Post by isha »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:05 pm I'm thinking was it done for multiple reasons
* Stopping Europe buying Russian gas to make sure Europe buys "someone's else's" gas?
* Making sure some in Europe can't go back on their word and making sure Russian gas cant be bought
* Cutting off Russia's source of money if Russia decides to reopen the pipework?

As for the right or wrong of it, I'm kinda "meh"...
Are you thinking the USA did it, and to stop European dependency on Russian gas in the future? Then European countries would likely have to buy from the US.
If so, I think it is certainly US overreach in a sovereign political block....do you think?
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#96

Post by isha »

Another thought I have is that if the gas pipeline can be built in the first place, then surely it can be repaired? And so the blowing up of it would be more in the nature of a political statement?
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#97

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Maybe Algeria and Morocco did it so Europe would buy African gas?

It's a political statement. If you continue to feck around with Ukraine, we can make sure you'll become and stay worse off than North Korea, economically......
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#98

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Turns out some people more familiar with the situation believe Russia did it.

Use Google Translate

https://www.nrk.no/urix/stale-ulriksen- ... 1.16118799
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#99

Post by knownunknown »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:56 pm Turns out some people more familiar with the situation believe Russia did it.

Use Google Translate

https://www.nrk.no/urix/stale-ulriksen- ... 1.16118799
Every western media is going with “Putin did it”. Thing is, if Putin was going to blow up a pipeline, why not that one opening tomorrow that is actually pumping gas into Poland from Norway, he doesn’t own it, surely would have been the smarter option to blow up. Not his own pipeline that was making him billions, trillions even.

There are many reasons to be highly critical of this article, one of them being that the polish prime minister did not blame Russia, but did call it sabotage. Really poor journalism. I have seen zero evidence to support this claim.
The Polish Prime Minister also believes that Russia is behind it.

- We do not know exactly what happened today, but we clearly see that it was an act of sabotage, says Mateusz Morawiecki.”
The article cites no reason for the Russians blowing them up other than it ‘follows a pattern of non attributable actions’, yeah of course it would be non attributable because for the Russians to blow them up would be the equivalent of slapping yourself in the face. Who slaps themselves in the face in the middle of a fight? What is the reason for that? Just so you can say “well, I probably didn’t hit myself, it must have been the other guy”.

I can’t see how so many people believe this codswallop, yet they do. I don’t believe what journalists say without facts or evidence, I’ve been burned too many times in the past. This is pure propaganda and I’d bet pounds to pennies on that happily. If they had a good reason for why Putin blew up his own pipeline that was making him trillions then maybe the story would actually make some sense.

In January there are many articles online of the US and the Germans talking about nordstream and how they will respond. They were the ones threatening to blow it up. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see what happened. Of course this looks bad for the us and nato, this is why there seems to be so much propaganda floating about. Don’t believe the propaganda, especially if it doesn’t even attempt to give you a proper reason.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#100

Post by Del.Monte »

Lazy journalism + propaganda is the story of this latest incident and the whole conflict from the beginning. Even my beloved BBC have fallen into this trap - shades of the Weapons of Mass Destruction stories that were put out before the Iraq war. A lot of it born from fear of being dubbed disloyal or worse if anything critical of the Ukrainian regime is published.
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