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Anyone still glued to this?

News, geopolitics, impact, consequences etc from the Ukraine Russia conflict
CelticRambler
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#401

Post by CelticRambler »

KHD wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:01 pm This is going to work out well.
It probably will. I've been wondering when an "independent" third party would decide to step in and provide the Ukrainians with longer-range weapons seeing as the USAmericans weren't responding to that particular call. Now I am surprised that it'd be Boeing, as they're effectively a branch of the US government in all but name, but maybe that's the fudge.

What I was expecting was that one or other of the European arms manufacturers would use the opportunity to show that they can produce and deliver something equivalent to the ATACMS and Saab were making noises about this last week. Maybe that was the gentle provocation the US needed to stop procrastinating.

If (or when) Ukraine gets hold of some longer-range missiles, all those just-out-of-reach Russian stockpiles and marshalling yards will be wiped out very quickly.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#402

Post by KHD »

Setanta wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:54 am Would have taught the NATO/yanks etc,don't particularly need to beat Russia?
In that they can tie Russia down into an extensive,endless ground war,that will burn through resources, credibility and eventually become extremely unpopular at home.......a few hundred farm labourers in the north run rings around British army for bones of a generation,and could never be fully pinned down,russia eventually (like the yanks) had to withdraw from Afghanistan without a comprehensive victory


The notion,yanks/eu ever care about Ukrainians,was shallow the min they offered to spirit zelensky away on day one,.....they couldn't drag Russia into a ground war, by been seen to back Isis in syria,but can here
This was the idea, degrade Russia' military and economy but I don't see how any of that has worked. What I see is that Nato and the US's weapons stockpiles are being degraded to dangerously low levels. Russia seems to have a better production model for replenishing it's weaponry while the US defence contractors are much slower in manufacturing. Russian arms and heavy weapons manufacturers are owned by the state, whereas US weapons manufacturers are private companies which need to make a profit, so ramping up production cannot be turned on overnight. I suspect this is one of the lessons the Pentagon has learned in all of this.

The Russians are hardening their stance on Ukraine as far as I can see and to the normal Russian, the mantra they've been hearing for years that the West wants to destroy Russia is now more or less confirmed to them so I don't see any chance of uprisings in Russia supporting Ukrainians other than a few opposition groups. The images of Russian soldiers being executed after being captured and the constant tactic of purposely shelling civilians in Donesk and over the border in Belograd in Russia has put paid to any lingering support for Ukraine by normal Russian people.

The northern conflict was not a military win by the provos, it was a political settlement ultimately and a demilitarisation of the conflict. This to me will eventually happen to Ukraine, but will involve the partition of the country. Russia is right at the border with Ukraine so its in a better position than as America are in say Syria, which they are in the process of getting booted out of thanks to Iran and Turkey hitting the Kurds from each side and Turkey blowing up their oil fields that the yanks have the Kurds protecting.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#403

Post by CelticRambler »

KHD wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:19 am A couple of reports this morning which back up Brian Berletic's analysis on the military supply end of things, which he already provided backup himself, these stories are getting more common over the last few days ->

Warehouses of military equipment of NATO countries are empty due to assistance to Ukraine - Polish Ambassador to NATO Tomasz Szatkowski on FM radio station RMF

US Department of Defense spokesman: "The Pentagon is very concerned that Ukrainians are firing at an exorbitant rate, especially in places like Bakhmut, based on the false assumption that ammunition supplies in the West are unlimited."
This is characteristic of the stuff that guys like Berletic and the retired Colonel come out with - but it's old news. It was already being discussed (even on boards.ie! :P ) back in March. So much of what those lads come out with is based on really out-dated material ... rather like the Russian artillery, who regularly shell their own troops because they didn't know they'd moved to a new location. :roll:
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#404

Post by KHD »

CelticRambler wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:33 pm This is characteristic of the stuff that guys like Berletic and the retired Colonel come out with - but it's old news. It was already being discussed (even on boards.ie! :P ) back in March. So much of what those lads come out with is based on really out-dated material ... rather like the Russian artillery, who regularly shell their own troops because they didn't know they'd moved to a new location. :roll:
This is not old news, these quotes were made by a Pentagon spokesman this morning and a Polish Nato ambassador. This is quite different to idiots spouting crap from out of their asses based on notions and incorrect information.

As for the Russians shelling themselves... yeah right.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#405

Post by CelticRambler »

KHD wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:30 pm The northern conflict was not a military win by the provos, it was a political settlement ultimately and a demilitarisation of the conflict. This to me will eventually happen to Ukraine, but will involve the partition of the country.
Every war is, in the end, a political settlement. Until the next time. The provos engaged in (para)military action to drag the British Government to the negotiating table, and when things reached a stalemate, they were quick to remind the British that the problem was not going to be resolved by sitting around a table yet never actually agreeing anything. Hence the Canary Wharf bombing.

As for Ukraine, there's no reason at all for it to remain partitioned, because Mother/Father Russia has nothing to offer the people of the Donbass region that a Westernised Urkaine can't match. For the last eight years, the people there have put up with the Russians lobbing shells at the Ukraininas, and being shelled in return; but next year and forever after, they'll have the example of their family, friends and acquaintances in places like Kharkiv and Kherson (and Crimea) having got rid of the Russians and being all the better for it.

No doubt it'll be a hard slog for the Ukrainians, but as Russia has no claim on any part of Ukraine's territory, there's no reason for them not to be pushed right back to their own border and kept there for the rest of the century to lick their wounds and try to keep the Georgians and Chechens and Kazakhs at bay.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#406

Post by KHD »

CelticRambler wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:46 pm
As for Ukraine, there's no reason at all for it to remain partitioned, because Mother/Father Russia has nothing to offer the people of the Donbass region that a Westernised Urkaine can't match. For the last eight years, the people there have put up with the Russians lobbing shells at the Ukraininas, and being shelled in return; but next year and forever after, they'll have the example of their family, friends and acquaintances in places like Kharkiv and Kherson (and Crimea) having got rid of the Russians and being all the better for it.

No doubt it'll be a hard slog for the Ukrainians, but as Russia has no claim on any part of Ukraine's territory, there's no reason for them not to be pushed right back to their own border and kept there for the rest of the century to lick their wounds and try to keep the Georgians and Chechens and Kazakhs at bay.
I think you will find CR, that after the Ukrainian campaign of indiscriminately murdering civilians in these areas and the residents of Donbass having to live in basements for 8 years and the banning by the Ukrainian parliament of their native tongue, residents in Donbass want to be a part of Ukraine as much as I want to be an Iranian.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#407

Post by Del.Monte »

And some simpleton on Twitter wants advance notice so that they can leave Europe before the nukes start flying. Does the idiot really think the rest of the world will escape from a nuclear war? Too much time on their Xbox .... :roll: :roll:
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#408

Post by isha »

I think before any of us get too convinced about how right we personally are now on the subject of the war in Ukraine, it's worth casting an eye over how very wrong all of us were not 10 months ago

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1158
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#409

Post by Del.Monte »

isha wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:34 pm I think before any of us get too convinced about how right we personally are now on the subject of the war in Ukraine, it's worth casting an eye over how very wrong all of us were not 10 months ago

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1158
How right you are, it's easy for us all to make predictions and I was wrong about the invasion but at least I was right about the West needing to stay out of it.
viewtopic.php?p=21853#p21853
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#410

Post by KHD »

isha wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:34 pm I think before any of us get too convinced about how right we personally are now on the subject of the war in Ukraine, it's worth casting an eye over how very wrong all of us were not 10 months ago

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1158
Yes I was completely wrong about that and will admit I'm completely wrong about current events if it turns out to be the case. I've no problem admitting when I'm wrong, it doesn't bother me either way. This is the way of the world but to not speak for fear you will be wrong on something in my view is alot worse. To leave commentary on incidents and situations that have happened that are being twisted or downright lies should not go unchallenged. I will step away from this thread if that is what you all want or leave the forum completely I don't really care at this stage.
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#411

Post by isha »

Del.Monte wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:41 pm How right you are, it's easy for us all to make predictions and I was wrong about the invasion but at least I was right about the West needing to stay out of it.
viewtopic.php?p=21853#p21853
I think it is interesting that some of the posters that one might possibly have considered borderline conspiracy theorists were closer to the mark than most.

This has happened with the pandemic too. I found I had to revise opinions significantly as time went on - and I vividly recall writing a scathing post elsewhere absolutely ripping up the "Covid minimisers". I was pretty rotten, actually, the whole schtick of not caring for elderly people etc. As it happens, I was wrong, and the people I thought were monsters, who said the young and healthy should get on with life and build herd immunity, were right, and have been proven correct now that we have whole swathes of very young children with comprised immunity due to lack of exposure, and a large number of people whose serious illnesses were not diagnosed in time due to lockdowns etc.

So, it's my experience that it's worth remembering that no matter how correct I think I am about anything I could be talking rubbish.

That's not going to stop me talking, mind you, because that's what humans do.
Last edited by isha on Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#412

Post by isha »

KHD wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:46 pm Yes I was completely wrong about that and will admit I'm completely wrong about current events if it turns out to be the case. I've no problem admitting when I'm wrong, it doesn't bother me either way. This is the way of the world but to not speak for fear you will be wrong on something in my view is alot worse. To leave commentary on incidents and situations that have happened that are being twisted or downright lies should not go unchallenged. I will step away from this thread if that is what you all want or leave the forum completely I don't really care at this stage.
It never crossed my mind that anyone should step away from the thread, or not express an opinion. I am happy to listen to any opinion. Or not bother listening to anyone either, that works for me too 🙂 None of this is personal.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#413

Post by Setanta »

KHD wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:01 pm This is going to work out well.

Is this not an inevitably really, continued escalation until one side or other backs down or ends in stalemate....next logical step would be for NATO and co to begin to locate nuclear armaments there,or Ukraine make their own?


One way or the other,it's hard to see a nuclear attack not occuring at this stage,which the whole world will end up paying for
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#414

Post by knownunknown »

Setanta wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:52 pm Is this not an inevitably really, continued escalation until one side or other backs down or ends in stalemate....next logical step would be for NATO and co to begin to locate nuclear armaments there,or Ukraine make their own?


One way or the other,it's hard to see a nuclear attack not occuring at this stage,which the whole world will end up paying for
I bet this never happens and the west and nato never send missiles to Ukraine with which they can strike Russia. There’s a bold prediction for the thread! I think they’ve made this clear already umpteen times. The Us knew about this invasion before anyone else and was warning the world about it. The time to equip the Ukrainians was then.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#415

Post by KHD »

I'm just going to end this by saying war now is like a football match, each side is whooping on the latest lump of steel or titanium that will kill and maim people. Fooking idiots while their politicians do nothing but further inflame the situation.. People in the west including our lovely little island are openly celebrating young men that are from both Ukrainian and Russia being slaughtered like cattle.

Soldiers are dying of sepsis in Bakhmut due to not being able to be evacuated. Women and children are being blown to pieces from artillery shells hitting their homes. Old people have no electricity, heat or water. Young people who should be out enjoying themselves and getting on with their lives are now a generation who have seen real war and the terrible consequences of it and will not be the better of it in later life.

All because of countries foreign policies that the proponents of, live in relative comfort and security. Where one side will not leave the other alone and bury their differences and have a relationship based on mutual respect for each other and guarantee the other that we will not seek to destroy or dismantle each other's countries.

We have learned nothing from history. The same thing that happened in world war 1 we are seeing again. This time though the disturbing visuals of people celebrating the latest kill and dehumanisation of the enemy as nothing better than animals I find hard to take and put up with.
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#416

Post by isha »

It is hard to understand how so many are and have been hyping up this disgusting vile war. It is hard to understand how getting a peace deal was not and is not the most important thing.

The world is not in a good state at the moment. I think most people are blotting that out because it is too hard to be real about the crazy crap that is going on in so many ways. Things are probably going to keep on getting weirder and worse.

But it is as it is. Nothing I think or feel or hope is going to change it.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#417

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Del.Monte wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:33 pm And some simpleton on Twitter wants advance notice so that they can leave Europe before the nukes start flying. Does the idiot really think the rest of the world will escape from a nuclear war? Too much time on their Xbox .... :roll: :roll:
Given the logic of some, I imagine they'll be givig out that they didn't get the "notice they are entitled to"
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#418

Post by Hairy-Joe »

KHD wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:16 pm
We have learned nothing from history. The same thing that happened in world war 1 we are seeing again. This time though the disturbing visuals of people celebrating the latest kill and dehumanisation of the enemy as nothing better than animals I find hard to take and put up with.
I think that's the disturbing thing for society. We have the horror images of WW1 and the horror was expressed in poetry, etc. The horrors of the Spanish civil war was in Picasso's paintings. Now it's streamed live and people are numb and dull to it. It's just another channel to flick through.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#419

Post by knownunknown »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:09 pm I think that's the disturbing thing for society. We have the horror images of WW1 and the horror was expressed in poetry, etc. The horrors of the Spanish civil war was in Picasso's paintings. Now it's streamed live and people are numb and dull to it. It's just another channel to flick through.
It’s not a horror until it’s on one’s own doorstep. The generation that remember the world wars have just about gone, I mean really remember them first hand that were around to warn everyone of another one.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#420

Post by CelticRambler »

KHD wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:16 pmAll because of countries foreign policies that the proponents of, live in relative comfort and security. Where one side will not leave the other alone and bury their differences and have a relationship based on mutual respect for each other and guarantee the other that we will not seek to destroy or dismantle each other's countries.
And at the same time, some of the most blood-thirsty posters across the internet are constantly berating countries like Germany who essentially did bury old differences with Russia and start building a relationship based, if not on mutual respect, on mutual economic interest.

Still didn't stop Russia invading part of Ukraine in 2014, nor did it stop them trying to invade the rest of Ukraine in 2022.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#421

Post by Setanta »

knownunknown wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:12 pm I bet this never happens and the west and nato never send missiles to Ukraine with which they can strike Russia. There’s a bold prediction for the thread! I think they’ve made this clear already umpteen times. The Us knew about this invasion before anyone else and was warning the world about it. The time to equip the Ukrainians was then.
Ukraine has struck russian soil on several occasions,arms dump don't mysteriously self combust.....it just suited both sides to not imply the obvious

Another 2 or 3 years of this war,and I see no reason it won't drag on as long (unless something drastic happens next spring/summer),neither side are gonna run out of arms anytime soon,and the pressure to bring it to a conclusion,could potentially see someone or the other deploy a nuclear weapon to break deadlock
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#422

Post by knownunknown »

CelticRambler wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:02 pm And at the same time, some of the most blood-thirsty posters across the internet are constantly berating countries like Germany who essentially did bury old differences with Russia and start building a relationship based, if not on mutual respect, on mutual economic interest.

Still didn't stop Russia invading part of Ukraine in 2014, nor did it stop them trying to invade the rest of Ukraine in 2022.
It was NATO that warned Germany when they first started buying Russian energy. They were warned it could be used to hurt them just like the oil crisis from the seventies. They promised to never allow the amount they receive from Russia to exceed 10%. At the time of invasion it was over 50%. Are NATO bloodthirsty or not? Or were they trying to stop a situation like this occurring where Germany is hesitant to help defend a sovereign country because it relies on the energy of the aggressor who invaded another country.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... ord-stream
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#423

Post by knownunknown »

Setanta
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#424

Post by Setanta »



Thank feck we're neutral and not involved/compelled into this war.....Russia may well over stepped the mark,but the longer it goes on,the more their claims about Nazis are hard to dismiss as propaganda
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#425

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Setanta wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:29 pm

Thank feck we're neutral and not involved/compelled into this war.....Russia may well over stepped the mark,but the longer it goes on,the more their claims about Nazis are hard to dismiss as propaganda
Well, the "SS" symbol didn't start with the Nazi. It was used and made popular, much the same as the swastika was.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sowil%C ... Nazi_usage
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