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Anyone still glued to this?

News, geopolitics, impact, consequences etc from the Ukraine Russia conflict
knownunknown
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#476

Post by knownunknown »

Not sure about the Zapp Brannigan tactic of sending wave after wave of people to their deaths. Nobody is that stupid. This warfare is more about being spotted and blown out of the sky from afar. If those drones spot you - you’re in trouble and need to move quick, unlike previous warfare.

The similarities are there though with other wars or invasions like in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea the invading force think they’re the liberators and the defending force are fighting tooth and nail to defend what’s theirs.

I’ve heard the Russian soldiers think they are liberating the locals from a nazi regime, how true is this? I mean how the soldiers think. If that’s truly the case it’s easy to comprehend the bloodshed we are seeing.
gugleguy
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#477

Post by gugleguy »

Another one bites the dust . BBC News - Ukraine war: Sergei Surovikin removed as commander of Ukraine invasion force
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64235713
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#478

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Ya it's more of a shuffle really.

I'm wondering if there will be more and more dissent within the Russian Generals as their house of cards has been exposed badly and the longer this goes on, the worse it is for them. I imagine a lot are looking for a way to get out of Russia with their ill gotten millions
Setanta
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#479

Post by Setanta »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 12:57 pm Ya it's more of a shuffle really.

I'm wondering if there will be more and more dissent within the Russian Generals as their house of cards has been exposed badly and the longer this goes on, the worse it is for them. I imagine a lot are looking for a way to get out of Russia with their ill gotten millions
Looks to be a person appointed that he'll have to answer too,to smooth things internally within Russia......Putin hasn't survived as long without have a certain political copon


You'd be hoping,the relentless targeting of infrastructure would cease,but it seems to be only tactic working in Russia's favour.....noone would clowns in western europe,who couldn't abide to wear a mask during a pandemic,endure what ordinary Ukrainians have had too,without a societal collaspe
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Del.Monte
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#480

Post by Del.Monte »

As the West keeps on calling Russia's bluff: https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-all ... 023-01-22/ here in Ireland Paschal Donohoe's election expenses are far more important. :roll:
'no more blah blah blah'
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#481

Post by Hairy-Joe »

True and going completely off topic what comes to mind is "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". I'd say they are all at it!

Back on topic, there appears to be a major cohort in Berlin who are still trying not to offend the Russians and are holding up the Leopard 2 tanks. I'm of the opinion that the EU should send enough for a single massive push by Ukraine and completely call Putin's bluff. It's the only thing he seems to understand.
Setanta
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#482

Post by Setanta »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:59 am True and going completely off topic what comes to mind is "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". I'd say they are all at it!

Back on topic, there appears to be a major cohort in Berlin who are still trying not to offend the Russians and are holding up the Leopard 2 tanks. I'm of the opinion that the EU should send enough for a single massive push by Ukraine and completely call Putin's bluff. It's the only thing he seems to understand.
I think,their wary to be seen to arm neo-nazis.....the Russians have massively over egged the Nazism issue in Ukraine,but it certainly does exist

The rehabilitation,and in part admiration of the avoz regiment from Mariupol steel plant by many media in the west,is a propaganda victory for Putin at home,that can't be underestimated either


The fact Germany so called centrists took a leap to the right,on variety of subjects,as soon was out of power,was and should be an eye-opener to those who want further and further integration into Europe,while hand-wringing about that bloke in Hungary
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#483

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Just heard on the 9 o'clock news. Looks like the German Foreign Minister said Germany wouldn't stand in the way of tank exports from third countries
Setanta
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#484

Post by Setanta »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:07 pm Just heard on the 9 o'clock news. Looks like the German Foreign Minister said Germany wouldn't stand in the way of tank exports from third countries
If they gonna do it,they should get on with it imo

Everyday spent fecking about,is a day of preparation lost,as the spring comes around
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
KHD
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#485

Post by KHD »

Setanta wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:12 pm If they gonna do it,they should get on with it imo

Everyday spent fecking about,is a day of preparation lost,as the spring comes around
The tanks won't make any difference, which is a major part of why Germany are reluctant to send them. You have to remember that Ukraine had hundreds of main battle tanks at the beginning of the invasion. These were destroyed. Midway through the war Nato and the US emptied out the stockpiles of tanks from former Warsaw Pact countries, again hundreds, these are also gone. Now they are sending a mixture of Leopards and what 14 British tanks and how will this change the outcome considering the Ukrainian army trained for years on their previous tanks and are now getting a hodge podge of different Western main battle tanks with limited training to be effective and a different ammunition and logistical burdens for each model ?

What I see is just hysteria and desperation from our western leaders as they have no other solution available to them other than send more weapons. The only good thing from a western point of view I can see is when the Ukrainian army does collapse the west have the option of a get out clause, if they chose it, of using Germany's slow response as the main reason why things went belly up.

Setanta
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#486

Post by Setanta »

KHD wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:46 pm The tanks won't make any difference, which is a major part of why Germany are reluctant to send them. You have to remember that Ukraine had hundreds of main battle tanks at the beginning of the invasion. These were destroyed. Midway through the war Nato and the US emptied out the stockpiles of tanks from former Warsaw Pact countries, again hundreds, these are also gone. Now they are sending a mixture of Leopards and what 14 British tanks and how will this change the outcome considering the Ukrainian army trained for years on their previous tanks and are now getting a hodge podge of different Western main battle tanks with limited training to be effective and a different ammunition and logistical burdens for each model ?

What I see is just hysteria and desperation from our western leaders as they have no other solution available to them other than send more weapons. The only good thing from a western point of view I can see is when the Ukrainian army does collapse the west have the option of a get out clause, if they chose it, of using Germany's slow response as the main reason why things went belly up.

I did think,the day of tank warfare was gone....they are getting rinsed in this war, particularly via drone

Dunno why the significance of these,but there's enough talking about em,send em or don't,but stop it as a distraction


That army won't be collasping,Russia is gonna need wade through a mountain of blood and bodies,the killing around bakhmut for a relatively
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
Setanta
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#487

Post by Setanta »

KHD wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:46 pm The tanks won't make any difference, which is a major part of why Germany are reluctant to send them. You have to remember that Ukraine had hundreds of main battle tanks at the beginning of the invasion. These were destroyed. Midway through the war Nato and the US emptied out the stockpiles of tanks from former Warsaw Pact countries, again hundreds, these are also gone. Now they are sending a mixture of Leopards and what 14 British tanks and how will this change the outcome considering the Ukrainian army trained for years on their previous tanks and are now getting a hodge podge of different Western main battle tanks with limited training to be effective and a different ammunition and logistical burdens for each model ?

What I see is just hysteria and desperation from our western leaders as they have no other solution available to them other than send more weapons. The only good thing from a western point of view I can see is when the Ukrainian army does collapse the west have the option of a get out clause, if they chose it, of using Germany's slow response as the main reason why things went belly up.

I did think,the day of tank warfare was gone....they are getting rinsed in this war, particularly via drone

Dunno why the significance of these,but there's enough talking about em,send em or don't,but stop it as a distraction


That Ukraine army won't be collasping,Russia is gonna need wade through a mountain of blood and bodies to achieve their aims....Ukraine is now likely pound for pound the best armed army in world right now...

even the appetite among republican yanks to pull funding has softened to collasped,there's a real deep bitterness and strong experience of killing on boths sides,seeping into this war,by mid summer,there won't be any prisoners been taken anymore,and utter massacres by both sides
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
KHD
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#488

Post by KHD »

Setanta wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:16 pm I did think,the day of tank warfare was gone....they are getting rinsed in this war, particularly via drone

Dunno why the significance of these,but there's enough talking about em,send em or don't,but stop it as a distraction


That Ukraine army won't be collasping,Russia is gonna need wade through a mountain of blood and bodies to achieve their aims....Ukraine is now likely pound for pound the best armed army in world right now...

even the appetite among republican yanks to pull funding has softened to collasped,there's a real deep bitterness and strong experience of killing on boths sides,seeping into this war,by mid summer,there won't be any prisoners been taken anymore,and utter massacres by both sides
I disagree with you on tanks, they are still a necessary piece of kit on the battlefield, especially this type of high intensity war we are, they can hit targets accurately and at long range. Agree on the drones, they have an important function now for correcting artillery, reconnaissance and at striking targets and are used by both sides.

Ukraine had the largest and the best equipped army in Europe in my view at the start of the war. Large amounts of air defence systems, artillery, tanks, ammunition and even aircraft. And also an army that was well trained to use them. How much of that army is still in the field ? They took heavy losses capturing Kherson and Karkov. While it was publicised as a success in reality when the Russian forces retreated to better positions due to lack of depth and manpower in their defence,t he Ukrainian army got pummelled with artillery and lost alot of equipment and manpower. Same thing happening now in Bakhmut for the last number of weeks. There is now only one way out for any Ukrainian soldiers in Bakhmut and that is rapidly closing. Zaluzhny has reportedly pleaded with Zelinsky to allow withdrawal from these areas but it has been refused, even some US officials advised it until the new weaponry has arrived and troops reorganised and trained on them. There is this misconception that the Russians are sending wave after wave of infantry which is completely illogical and I dont see any evidence of this other than wishful thinking on the part of the western media. They are not fighting the war in this way but instead making use of long range artillery and other systems to minimise loses on their own troops and maximise the loses on the Ukrainian side.

Anyway, whatever your point of view / analysis of what you see etc one thing seems to be certain. There will be a day, when we all wake up one morning and within the next few months if not sooner in my opinion, where we will switch on the news and say to ourselves how the fook are we now in this situation ? During the cold war, there was always a view,by both the Russians and Americans that there are certain lines that we don't cross and if it was approaching an escalatery situation,, both sides would sit down and work something out and descalate. This is now gone. America and Russia need to sit down and sort this out, but they won't and unfortunately this will now be decided on the battlefieldand it will be under Russian terms in my view. Nato and European armies have turned out to be paper tigers with no capability for sustainment of a real war like what is currently happening in Ukraine. This is evidenced by the fact that they do not have the production facilities to churn out the massive amounts of equipment and ammunition Ukraine is burning through. This cannot be remedied overnight, so instead we are now seeing countries transferring their armies supplies of weapons in the latest tranche. Estonia and Denmark have actually announced that they are transferring their complete stock of artillery pieces.

Anyway rambling away here, but was interesting watching the spectacle of Davos this year. You had people both calling for more support for climate change measures while Stoltenberg and Von der crazy were calling for more weapons to send to Ukraine. I don't think we will have to worry about climate change. As I said there will come a day when the Russians will have had enough, after multiple warnings which are laughed at or ignored and either there will be missiles flying into Nato bases to destroy them or something much worse.

My view remains unchanged in all of this, we are heading for the worst catastrophe since world war two and people don't give a fook or think its all some video game.
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Del.Monte
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#489

Post by Del.Monte »

But, but, but ........what about Paschal Donohoe's election expenses? :roll:
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Del.Monte
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#490

Post by Del.Monte »

Deputy ministers, officials and regional governors among those replaced as president seeks to clean up public life. Corruption in Ukraine - who would have thought it. :roll:

https://www.ft.com/content/9b5da3fc-d40 ... bdcbde594e
'no more blah blah blah'
KHD
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#491

Post by KHD »

Del.Monte wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:18 pm Deputy ministers, officials and regional governors among those replaced as president seeks to clean up public life. Corruption in Ukraine - who would have thought it. :roll:

https://www.ft.com/content/9b5da3fc-d40 ... bdcbde594e
I was only finished watching some commentary on this, there is something going on. Arestovich got sacked last week and now this. Also interesting is the former Polish foreign minister and EU Parliament member, Radoslaw Sikorski's recent comments that the current Polish government contemplated in the first 10 days of the Russian invasion of going into Ukraine and taking back old Polish lands lost in Western Ukraine. This has been denied by the current Polish prime minister. Why would he make such a statement now a year later ?

Some interesting discussion on the above here.

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Del.Monte
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#492

Post by Del.Monte »

Who are these buckos? They come across as a pair of poor man's "Lord Haw Haw" and much as I have little time for the Ukrainian leadership this sort of biased shite would almost have me sending him a few bob. The truth still remains that Russia and Ukraine are two sides of the same coin - rotten from the top down - and should have been left off at the beginning to sort out their differences and it would have been over months ago - instead the West is being dragged ever closer to the Abyss.
'no more blah blah blah'
KHD
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#493

Post by KHD »

Del.Monte wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:53 pm Who are these buckos? They come across as a pair of poor man's "Lord Haw Haw" and much as I have little time for the Ukrainian leadership this sort of biased shite would almost have me sending him a few bob. The truth still remains that Russia and Ukraine are two sides of the same coin - rotten from the top down - and should have been left off at the beginning to sort out their differences and it would have been over months ago - instead the West is being dragged ever closer to the Abyss.
I find them good commentary but then again as you know I'm biased. :mrgreen:
Setanta
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#494

Post by Setanta »

KHD wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:08 am I disagree with you on tanks, they are still a necessary piece of kit on the battlefield, especially this type of high intensity war we are, they can hit targets accurately and at long range. Agree on the drones, they have an important function now for correcting artillery, reconnaissance and at striking targets and are used by both sides.

Ukraine had the largest and the best equipped army in Europe in my view at the start of the war. Large amounts of air defence systems, artillery, tanks, ammunition and even aircraft. And also an army that was well trained to use them. How much of that army is still in the field ? They took heavy losses capturing Kherson and Karkov. While it was publicised as a success in reality when the Russian forces retreated to better positions due to lack of depth and manpower in their defence,t he Ukrainian army got pummelled with artillery and lost alot of equipment and manpower. Same thing happening now in Bakhmut for the last number of weeks. There is now only one way out for any Ukrainian soldiers in Bakhmut and that is rapidly closing. Zaluzhny has reportedly pleaded with Zelinsky to allow withdrawal from these areas but it has been refused, even some US officials advised it until the new weaponry has arrived and troops reorganised and trained on them. There is this misconception that the Russians are sending wave after wave of infantry which is completely illogical and I dont see any evidence of this other than wishful thinking on the part of the western media. They are not fighting the war in this way but instead making use of long range artillery and other systems to minimise loses on their own troops and maximise the loses on the Ukrainian side.

Anyway, whatever your point of view / analysis of what you see etc one thing seems to be certain. There will be a day, when we all wake up one morning and within the next few months if not sooner in my opinion, where we will switch on the news and say to ourselves how the fook are we now in this situation ? During the cold war, there was always a view,by both the Russians and Americans that there are certain lines that we don't cross and if it was approaching an escalatery situation,, both sides would sit down and work something out and descalate. This is now gone. America and Russia need to sit down and sort this out, but they won't and unfortunately this will now be decided on the battlefieldand it will be under Russian terms in my view. Nato and European armies have turned out to be paper tigers with no capability for sustainment of a real war like what is currently happening in Ukraine. This is evidenced by the fact that they do not have the production facilities to churn out the massive amounts of equipment and ammunition Ukraine is burning through. This cannot be remedied overnight, so instead we are now seeing countries transferring their armies supplies of weapons in the latest tranche. Estonia and Denmark have actually announced that they are transferring their complete stock of artillery pieces.

Anyway rambling away here, but was interesting watching the spectacle of Davos this year. You had people both calling for more support for climate change measures while Stoltenberg and Von der crazy were calling for more weapons to send to Ukraine. I don't think we will have to worry about climate change. As I said there will come a day when the Russians will have had enough, after multiple warnings which are laughed at or ignored and either there will be missiles flying into Nato bases to destroy them or something much worse.

My view remains unchanged in all of this, we are heading for the worst catastrophe since world war two and people don't give a fook or think its all some video game.
There's footage of Russian infantry units of 6 to 8 men repeatedly probing into Ukraine areas looking for Ukraine positions and getting wiped out....happening over and over,until Russia can pinpoint the Ukrainian positions and then wipe them out

It was (and is) the only viable way,to overcome impass that developed (outside of using chemical weapons).......the fact them two come to a military stalemate and no serious effort was made to negotiate,says to me,there's feck all leadership between either of em and they are simply willing to see their troops slaughtered
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
KHD
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#495

Post by KHD »

Setanta wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:38 pm There's footage of Russian infantry units of 6 to 8 men repeatedly probing into Ukraine areas looking for Ukraine positions and getting wiped out....happening over and over,until Russia can pinpoint the Ukrainian positions and then wipe them out

It was (and is) the only viable way,to overcome impass that developed (outside of using chemical weapons).......the fact them two come to a military stalemate and no serious effort was made to negotiate,says to me,there's feck all leadership between either of em and they are simply willing to see their troops slaughtered
These are reconnaissance groups you describe. Both sides use these small groupings for discovery of targets etc. It's a dangerous job and no doubt Russian forces have dead and wounded because of these operations the same as the Ukrainans have. But the conduct of the Russians in having no problem retreating to save men, when they feel the position will be overwhelmed or the defense is not deep enough, as in the situation in Karkov and Kherson, is the key difference between Ukraine and Russia in the treatment of soldiers and equipment as i see it. The Ukrainians will become entrenched in positions that are undefendable, even to the point where we've seen in Soladar that they continue to send men in when the only result is that these soldiers will inevitably be killed like all before them. This is what's going on in Bakhmut at the moment.

As regard to the war being static, it may look static but it is not and never has been. There has been either positional or attritional battles between both sides along the whole battle front, with the loses of huge amounts of soldiers. Just that now we see, on the one hand Russia has built up massive numbers of men and equipment and is now slowly but methodically, grinding down and slowly moving forward and on the other side Ukraine launching counter offensives or on the back foot that are being pushed back and urgently needing weapons supplies. They are out matched now in equipment, sustainment and man power.

Anyway I'm fagged our here with all of this and up in the morning again at an ungodly hour. I'll leave the rest to Colonel MacGregor to explain, this time been interviewed by a guy from Norway called Glenn Diesen, who is a great geopolitical analyst and for a change asks him the right questions. To me this man is the most level headed and sensible commentator on this war and has the military experience to tease out what's currently going on in Ukraine and gets past drivel we are being fed on this on a daily basis.

I was thinking today, for all you offended by what I post on this subject I will happily sit here in 6 months time and happily face the p1ss taking and humiliation if im not booted out of the place.. This is my opinion from following all this closely on a daily basis, and by being suspicious as to what I read. I'm been honest in what way I think what's going on in this war. Gubunor would probably do me a favour if he could fecking ban me from this thread entirely. Anyway have to go. 💤 😴

Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#496

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Well KHD, I think it would be a pity if you were banned or left. A skeptical outlook is handy to keep us "war, f**k ya!" merchants & 27 star armchair generals in place.

I was of the opinion that if Ukraine had the weapons, they have the cop-on to push the Russians out. Now I'm not too sure after reading some of your contributions.....
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#497

Post by Del.Monte »

Does the UN have anything to say these days or have they disbanded? :roll:
'no more blah blah blah'
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#498

Post by Hairy-Joe »

League of Nations comes to mind with regard to the UN
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#499

Post by isha »

As with the Covid topic, be prepared to cheerfully hold minority views. To know that even if the whole world and your neighbours tell you you are completely wrong, that it may turn out to be otherwise.
Time will tell. Life is complex.

Anyway, in general, I think it is incredibly boring (and suspect!) if everyone has the same opinion about everything. I have been pro peace negotiations re the Ukrainian war since the beginning. All that has belligerently and recklessly unfolded from every side since then has astonished me.
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#500

Post by KHD »

What an idiot.

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