Anyone still glued to this?

[KHD]

I suppose he’s going to risk getting it back on his grid which supplied over 10% of the power. They could really do with power right now.

By causing a large discharge of radiation within their own country ? He did say in an interview with the Guardian no less that he deems Nuclear power plants as legitimate military targets.

I was thinking about the conflict in Kosovo yesterday and the similarities when Nato allies took out the civilian infrastructure with what is happening at the moment in Ukraine. One of the apparent aims of the Nato campaign was to encourage public dissatisfaction within the civilian population to the leadership at the time through causing widespread suffering of the civilian population. It wasn't long after this event that the Yugoslav army retreated and Milosevic accepted the terms of the Nato international peace plan. Looks to me like the Russians are trying to do the same thing in Ukraine. There was public protests in the last few days in Odessa which was eventually broken up by the SBU. If there is another hit by Russia on the Energy infrastructure like what happened earlier in the week, I can see alot of ordinary Ukrainian's packing their bags and heading to the EU. How will the EU deal with this mass movement of people ? It's snowing there now so ordinary people are suffering and in a bad way even now.

I have a feeling Zelinsky's days are numbered. He appears to be getting more desperate and there is alot of people in the international community that are not happy the way he basically called for WWIII after his outburst when the AD missile hit the farm in Poland.

[KHD]

If you google Zelensky's position on the shelling over the last few months and he is blaming Russia for shelling themselves, to me it proves how much of an utter liar and bullshitter he is and anything that comes out of his gob should be treated with a pinch of salt. I'm in a minority obviously on this but that's my view. He'll either be taken out by his own people or asked to step aside by his handlers.

[quodec]

For someone who was once a comedian, I think he has handled the ongoing military crisis rather well.

[KHD]

For someone who was once a comedian, I think he has handled the ongoing military crisis rather well.

Well to me Quodec he was going well at the start before he got elected, even the Russian speakers in the east of the country voted for him in the hope that he would pull back the Ukrainian army who were constantly and purposely, shelling civilian areas in Donbass. Parents and their children living in basements for years for fear of an artillery shell landing in their homes. Nobody wants to talk about these people cause they are of Russian extraction and as the narrative now goes these Russians aren't really human beings but orks. Even the Nazi Azov Battalion are more human than these ordinary people.

To my mind he had the opportunity to put his country first and keep the Americans and the Russians happy and at arms length with an arrangement that would have satisfied both sides but instead choose to be an American poodle instead of a Russian poodle, both sides of the same coin. While he's accepting Oscars from stupid Hollywood celebrities for a photo op his people are dying in the front lines a couple of hundred miles away and half the population are spread over Russia and the EU. I think he needs to go while there is some sort of country left and someone who has the strength in personality to take on the external influences that Ukraine faces and has a genuine concern for his or her people.

Anyway, that's my rant about Zelensky, he's a politician like all other politicians and no politician should be held up on some sort of saintly plinth and not face criticism when required because it's not the popular or in thing to do.

[KHD]

The thing I find funny over all the Russian sanctions is that there is a report in the Sunday Times today that the UK is still buying Russian oil via Tanker transfers. So the Brits are indirectly giving money over to Russia and supplying arms into Ukraine at the same time. Figure that one out.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/slic ... -798j805mp

The oil price caps are the same, India is now going to be a big buyer of Russian oil but any surplus they have they will sell back to the EU at a premium price subverting their own Russian sanction policies.

We live in a Clown's world.

So while on one side we are being whipped into an emotional frenzy on what's happening in Ukraine by our leaders politically, there is also the normal run of the mill trade that continues. There is a quote somewhere that said "There is no morality in Geo Politics".

[Del.Monte]

The year is 2022 not 1922 and we are supposed to believe that the source of attacks on the Zaporizhzhia plant cannot be independently verified. When and if it is and those individuals directly responsible are identified their names should be added to a list of people to be prosecuted when this farce ends.The penalties for direct involvement should include the death penalty for attempted mass murder.

[KHD]

The year is 2022 not 1922 and we are supposed to believe that the source of attacks on the Zaporizhzhia plant cannot be independently verified. When and if it is and those individuals directly responsible are identified their names should be added to a list of people to be prosecuted when this farce ends.The penalties for direct involvement should include the death penalty for attempted mass murder.

The IAEA know exactly who is doing the shelling but are not going to get involved in it. The Russians have even handed over shell fragments on this. The soldiers aren't doing this off their own bat, they are following orders. An order for such a potentially catastrophic operation does not come from a field commander either, as far as I'm concerned this is directly coming from Kiev.

The Brussels and Washington leaderships are in over their heads on this now, only a matter of time now that they start looking for a way out of this disaster. Zelensky was on the verge of making a deal with the Russians back in March but Bojo flew over and told him to not go ahead with it. We are here unfortunately now at this point. A disaster unfolding for the West. Nato has been shown to be ineffective and riddled with division, their aircraft, which they rely on so much would be distroyed if the cross the border into Russian's air defence network, the European armies have been shown to be impotent and just ceremonial in nature with low stocks of equipment and in the case of France tied up in Africa. Germany has announced just yesterday that they will now be building up their own army as they said they cannot rely on Nato to protect them if hostilities broke out between itself and Russia. The EU economy is in tatters whilst Russian's economy is weathering the storm and growing.

We prodded the bear and used a country to do our dirty work and we will now see the consequences of that stupidity play out. As Obama said in 2016, Russia has "escalatery domininance" in Ukraine, which is why wisely he didn't start pumping Ukraine with weapons. But as soon as Trump took over the arms shipments started flowing in.

Some European leader should be headed to Kiev to get Zelensky to call off that operation at the nuclear power plant if they had any consideration for the welfare of their citizens in the EU. Bet they won't bother their arses until its too late.

Edit I better try and stay out of this thread today, its not good for my blood pressure. and probably for other people reading my posts on this too !

And I hope I'm the one that's wrong in all of this, but that's what I'm seeing over the last few months. As I said before I'm not going to be a plank, get in line and agree with everyone else when I see different in reports and commentary that I read on it. I do read everyone else's view on here, no matter if I dont agree, which is important on my part. If I was posting this on the other side I'd be site banned by helmet head.

[knownunknown]

For someone who was once a comedian, I think he has handled the ongoing military crisis rather well.

Comedians have a way of being forced to see reality for what it is or else they’re just not funny. Like khd said he was well liked by everyone in the beginning I can imagine one soon falling into a bubble though if thrown into a position of such power. All those glamorous Hollywood dos and at the UN, EU etc.. with all these people fawning over you must have some sort of effect.

[Del.Monte]

This is Zelensky's greatest acting role but he has seriously lost the plot and I have completely distrusted him since he started wearing army fatigues Castro/Saddam Hussein style.

[Setanta]

Comedians have a way of being forced to see reality for what it is or else they’re just not funny. Like khd said he was well liked by everyone in the beginning I can imagine one soon falling into a bubble though if thrown into a position of such power. All those glamorous Hollywood dos and at the UN, EU etc.. with all these people fawning over you must have some sort of effect.

When you see a bloke smirking and laughing about killing people,their not to be trusted imo

War is awlful business,but should never be perpetuated by those whom enjoy/revel in it

[Hairy-Joe]

I will go "against the grain" a bit here and saying that overall, I think Zelensky is going okay. War is a dirty business and bed things will happen on both sides. The Russians, however, are on a different level and simply want to wipe Ukraine off the map. Ukraine are defending their country and just think if you saw an invader killing members of your family, looking for revenge or justice would be a normal reaction. Also, don't forget after the countries turn Westward economically, the ordinary Ukrainian can see the benefit to fight for a free Ukraine.

The momentum militarily seems to be with Ukraine. After the initial Russian "success", it's been all Ukraine. I can see Ukraine making shapes to push back in Kerson and instead head to Mariupol, or some other classic misdirection. The winter will be telling as Ukraine seems to have better winter gear.

This will be over when the last Russian Boot leaves.

[KHD]

There was one thing that has happened since Friday that was reported which I find interesting with regard to Zelensky's position.
Zelensky said at the Halifax Security Forum that Kiev had rejected Russia's request for a short truce. The next day, Andriy Yermak, head of Ukraine's Presidential office "clarified" these remarks and said there was no such request from Russia. What's going on here ? Did Yermak come out on his own with this or did he discuss it with Zelensky before he made the comment?

Interesting times ahead on all fronts I would say.

[Del.Monte]

I can't see Russia/Putin ever giving Crimea back - too much to swallow and it's militarily important to them.

[CelticRambler]

I can't see Russia/Putin ever giving Crimea back - too much to swallow and it's militarily important to them.

There are rumours circulating today on both Western and Russian channels that Putin is sufficiently worried about the Ukranians making a serious push for Crimea "by the spring" and the ramifications that such an offensive will have for his own standing amongst the jackals around him that an agreement has already been made to hand control of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant to the IAEA and for the Russians to stage yet another strategic withdrawal to regroup ...

Of the remaining occupied territories, Crimea would be the easiest for the Ukrainians to recapture using the strategy of simply making it impossible for the Russians to re-supply themselves in any meaningful way. The psychological effect on the Russians of such a defeat would be immense, so I could well believe that the Ukrainians would consider it a worthwhile investment in at least making it look like this is a credible threat in order to secure some back-room deals.

[knownunknown]

I will go "against the grain" a bit here and saying that overall, I think Zelensky is going okay. War is a dirty business and bed things will happen on both sides. The Russians, however, are on a different level and simply want to wipe Ukraine off the map. Ukraine are defending their country and just think if you saw an invader killing members of your family, looking for revenge or justice would be a normal reaction. Also, don't forget after the countries turn Westward economically, the ordinary Ukrainian can see the benefit to fight for a free Ukraine.

The momentum militarily seems to be with Ukraine. After the initial Russian "success", it's been all Ukraine. I can see Ukraine making shapes to push back in Kerson and instead head to Mariupol, or some other classic misdirection. The winter will be telling as Ukraine seems to have better winter gear.

This will be over when the last Russian Boot leaves.

Not sure I’d agree with the second paragraph when half of Ukraine is without power. There may be success like that in Kherson after the initial blitz but Ukraine are far from winning. That city will be unliveable for a long time yet. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/21/179

The success I’ve seen reported is superficial at best.

[CelticRambler]

There may be success like that in Kherson after the initial blitz but ... That city will be unliveable for a long time yet.

And yet thousands of people are living there, and more returning now that the train service from Kyiv to Kherson is running again.

One twitter clip does not an incontestable proof make, but this guy would disagree with you:

[knownunknown]

And yet thousands of people are living there, and more returning now that the train service from Kyiv to Kherson is running again.

One twitter clip does not an incontestable proof make, but this guy would disagree with you:

I supplied an article from Al Jazeera saying they are evacuating the city. “Authorities urged residents of the two southern regions, which Russian forces have been shelling for months, to move to safer areas in the central and western parts of the country.”.

All this propaganda is not going to do one bit of good for Ukraine. The retaking of Kherson was not the big victory the media makes it out to be. The city is destroyed and is not far from the source of the canal in Crimea, the one that the Ukrainians switched off that sent 85% of their water there. One could deduce that they just wanted to annihilate the city as retribution in which case job done.

[Hairy-Joe]

There are rumours circulating today on both Western and Russian channels that Putin is sufficiently worried about the Ukranians making a serious push for Crimea "by the spring" and the ramifications that such an offensive will have for his own standing amongst the jackals around him that an agreement has already been made to hand control of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant to the IAEA and for the Russians to stage yet another strategic withdrawal to regroup ...

Of the remaining occupied territories, Crimea would be the easiest for the Ukrainians to recapture using the strategy of simply making it impossible for the Russians to re-supply themselves in any meaningful way. The psychological effect on the Russians of such a defeat would be immense, so I could well believe that the Ukrainians would consider it a worthwhile investment in at least making it look like this is a credible threat in order to secure some back-room deals.

Ukraine is already making it difficult to resupply Crimea. Crimea has two narrow strips of land connecting it to Ukraine and one bridge connecting it to Russia.

The bridge is gone, and the supply routes to the two narrow strips of land are under Ukrainian fire. Ukraine has taken Kerson which controls the canal carrying water to Crimea.

Crimea is suffering already

[CelticRambler]

I supplied an article from Al Jazeera saying they are evacuating the city. “Authorities urged residents of the two southern regions, which Russian forces have been shelling for months, to move to safer areas in the central and western parts of the country.”.

The big difference this week/month is that these - Ukrainian - authorities are offering and facilitating the voluntary evacuation of those who are most vulnerable, and only because they can't guarantee the rapid restoration of normal urban services and infrastructure. Compare that to the Russians' forced evacuation of the most desireable children and politicians, with the explicit threat that they were going to raze the city to the ground whether the rest of the population left or not.

Yes, there's a fierce amount of propaganda being pumped out, but if you stand back a bit and consider what footage is available, there is no shortage of Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok, Telegram and Youtube videos showing happy smiling Ukrainians mobbing Urkainian soldiers with flowers and cakes and hugs, and Ukrainian soldiers delivering food, medicines and other basic necessities (as well as less necessary treats), and people generally enjoying "freedom of assembly" in any way they want, with plenty of mainstream western media able to turn up and talk to and/or film whatever they want.

And on the other ... nothing but enormous piles of filth and rubbish, towns and villages almost completely devoid of human life, and an unending litany of mindless theft and destruction. In nine months, not even the Russians themselves can find any videos showing the Russian soliders being ordinary decent humans. Is there any reason to believe that the civilian population in the Donbass region is enjoying life under Russian occupation more than their family and friends on the other side of the front line?

[Hairy-Joe]

I can't see Russia/Putin ever giving Crimea back - too much to swallow and it's militarily important to them.

Militarily, Crimea is the easiest to take back for Ukraine. Cut the narrow supply lines (only three choke points), leave them for awhile to run down their supplies and then move in when the defenders have nothing left.

Knocking the Kerch Straight bridge to heavy traffic and leaving it open for light traffic gives the Russian an escape route. The ordinary Russian Soldier isn't disciplined enough not to run when things go badly wrong.

Compare that to the Donbas for the Russians, plenty short supply lines from Russia, no real natural choke points, ability to move forces around in the rear, etc

[knownunknown]

Militarily, Crimea is the easiest to take back for Ukraine. Cut the narrow supply lines (only three choke points), leave them for awhile to run down their supplies and then move in when the defenders have nothing left.

Knocking the Kerch Straight bridge to heavy traffic and leaving it open for light traffic gives the Russian an escape route. The ordinary Russian Soldier isn't disciplined enough not to run when things go badly wrong.

Compare that to the Donbas for the Russians, plenty short supply lines from Russia, no real natural choke points, ability to move forces around in the rear, etc

To give a bit of perspective of a resident of Crimea; This peninsula has had some of the bloodiest battles from the Bela Kun slaughtering the whites in the last stand of the Russian civil war (up to 150,000) to the Battle of the Kerch Peninsula which saw up to 400,000 slaughtered. Never mind their rich history in the Ottoman Empire before that(battle of balaclava).

When given the choice in 1991 they decided to form their own autonomous region(approved by 94% of voters), this is before Ukraine forcibly abolished it in 1995 and put them under their administration. Fast forward to 2014 the democratically elected leader that Crimean’s favour gets ousted by the ‘revolution of dignity’. They are deeply unhappy with Yanukovych’s removal and make it known by protests.

Russia subsequently invade and annex Crimea and hold elections which are deemed a sham by most of the international community who refuse to send election observers. An independent poll from 2008 found that most people on that peninsula consider themselves Russian and would voted to succeed from Ukraine. The 2014 elections find 97% in favour of being under the Russian administration.

Following 2014* Ukraine turned the water that feeds into Crimea down to a trickle for a number of years. Following the invasion of Ukraine the battle over this resource has been heavy as seen in Kherson with Russian forces temporarily switching the water back on only for it to be turned off again.

What is democracy anyway?

[Del.Monte]

Certainly Russia has no experience of democracy and Ukraine only slightly more.

[KHD]

This video is a classic example of the dangers of the Internet. This guy is a putin bot pretending to be a former high ranking member of the US military. Do not watch this bullshit.

[KHD]

This reporter was sacked for telling the truth. The orks fired their only two missiles left at the Polz. They were meant to hit Warsaw but crashed on a farm due to the ruskies drinking the rocket fuel. They managed to set off the rockets before dying from rocket poisoning. Chief Ork was very embarrassed and blamed the Ukrainians.

Please support the reinstatement of this hero.

https://www.agenzianova.com/en/news/AP- ... in-Poland/

PA reporter fired after writing that Moscow was behind the missile in Poland

James LaPorta, a specialist in national security issues, was fired for spreading "incorrect information" about the missile that hit the village of Przewodow, on the border with Ukraine, on November 15, killing two people

[CelticRambler]

Another interview with Colonel MacGregor

A force of 700000 Russian troops surrounding Ukraine!

Yeah, right. We've seen ample evidence of how 700000 of Russia's brightest and best able-bodied men voted with their feet and fled to the safety of "anywhere but Russia" leaving only the mad, the bad and the sad to be literally dragged off the streets and told they're in the army now.

We've also seen ample evidence of how the 200-odd involuntarily mobilised are amongst the worst infantrymen the world has ever seen, with Russia's half-decent professional soldiers trying to keep well clear of them.

It sounds like Col. MacGregor is reading and believing the same FSB reports that are being dropped on Putin's desk.

And he's still peddling the line that Putin/Russia never wanted to destroy Ukrainian civilian infrastructure ...


Edit: I wonder if he knows that Russia has started evacuating women and children from Crimea? I mean I'm sure that's got absolutely nothing to do with the Ukrainians refusing to be anihilated, and they're only making sure those women can have a great winter holiday somewhere in the Motherland ... sorry Fatherland, as of this week (whodathunkit - Mother Russia was trans all along )