Anyone still glued to this?

[KHD]

I’m guessing what the bbc say here is pretty similar for anyone like me behind the paywall. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63656664

His comments about ‘not our missile’ and he wants to be involved in the investigations indicates he doesn’t believe the nato narrative.

I find it very ironic that with the constant media message that Russia is the biggest threat to the security of Europe and Nato, that yesterday, as the US, Nato, Germany and even Poland came out with their view after preliminary investigations, that it was an AD missile fired by the Ukrainians that went wayward, Zelinsky still maintained it was Russia and would not accept that it was one of his own missiles fired mistakenly by his own army, which tragically killed two EU citizens of a Nato country. Only today has he in anyway accepted that it may be a Ukrainian missile, probably under forceful advice from the US. If his request for Nato to "Act Now" on Russia was acted upon yesterday evening shortly after the missile fell, there would be 100s of thousands of people dead by the time you read this post and we would be in a big war with Russia.. All based on a lie. He is not going to do his cause or country any good if he continues to act in this dishonest and fck everyone else way.

[KHD]

Referenced this previously in one of my posts, how depleted are EU and US weapons stockpiles as this war rages on with no end in sight. Supplies are obviously finite. I've noticed that the recent military aid packages that are being announced in recent weeks are nothing like what was announced at the start of the war. I found an Interesting article for anyone interested. Also speaks of Russian weapons stockpiles being depleted. Big spend in weapons as both sides race to get as many weapons produced as quickly as possible to make up the shortfall. Would be interesting to find out what sort of surge capacity, if that's the right word, both Russia and America have built into their weapons manufacturing processes.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/11/16/uk ... -industry/

Edit, another thought is the eyes of the world, potential military customers, are probably looking at the performance of some of these systems, what better way to evaluate a weapons system than see it in the theatre of battle. I wonder are there certain systems that are not used in Ukraine for either in case they turn out to be shite or for fear they will be captured by the other side.

[Del.Monte]

Maybe the Irish army should donate some weapons - to both sides - in the interests of fair play.

[kadman]

Maybe the Irish army should donate some weapons - to both sides - in the interests of fair play.

Yeah, the taliban took down blackhawk helicopters with old lee enfield 303 rifles from the boer war.

[Del.Monte]

Don't know how reliable this site is https://www.statista.com/statistics/131 ... ates-2022/ but given the size of the USA and the fact that they are the country benefiting most from the war - arms and LNG sales etc - they should surely be taking the bulk of the Ukrainian refugees. From what I can gather on news bulletins, Castlebar and Lisdoonvarna have taken more than the entire USA.

[isha]

Edit, another thought is the eyes of the world, potential military customers, are probably looking at the performance of some of these systems, what better way to evaluate a weapons system than see it in the theatre of battle. I wonder are there certain systems that are not used in Ukraine for either in case they turn out to be shite or for fear they will be captured by the other side.

https://archive.ph/ynKrL

It's all but admitted in the post above in the New York Times from 2 days ago that Ukraine is a testing battlefield for weapons and other war systems like communications. How handy it is for the good guy Imperialists to have use of the wide open, resource rich spaces of Ukraine and the bodies of Ukrainians to play out their SIM games in this definitely not a proxy NATO V Russia war.

[knownunknown]

This story kind of flew under the radar(pardon the pun), https://www.businessinsider.com/zelensk ... ?r=US&IR=T

Zelensky proposed a 10 point peace plan at the ‘g19’ meetings the same day as that strike on Poland. It includes the withdrawal of all Russian troops from occupied territories, I’m guessing this means a return to pre Crimea invasion borders. In this article it also notes that 40% of Ukraine’s energy infrastructure has been destroyed.

That’s what I see as the future of warfare, just make the cities unliveable. If you hurt civilians otherwise the world comes down on you with bad press. Destroying infrastructure is not seen in the same light as just murdering indiscriminately although it comes pretty damn close. Millions of people have to flee their homes or endure frozen conditions lacking in communications. Instead of training up new soldiers and producing more weapons the population is instead worried about just surviving. It’s the long game.

[Del.Monte]

It that's accurate, it doesn't seem like much of a plan - just Russia go home. What's in it for Putin to allow him save face?

[Hairy-Joe]

It that's accurate, it doesn't seem like much of a plan - just Russia go home. What's in it for Putin to allow him save face?

Not dragged in front of a war crimes trial?

[KHD]

I'll figure it out or might end post this stuff at all.

[KHD]

This story kind of flew under the radar(pardon the pun), https://www.businessinsider.com/zelensk ... ?r=US&IR=T

Zelensky proposed a 10 point peace plan at the ‘g19’ meetings the same day as that strike on Poland. It includes the withdrawal of all Russian troops from occupied territories, I’m guessing this means a return to pre Crimea invasion borders. In this article it also notes that 40% of Ukraine’s energy infrastructure has been destroyed.

That’s what I see as the future of warfare, just make the cities unliveable. If you hurt civilians otherwise the world comes down on you with bad press. Destroying infrastructure is not seen in the same light as just murdering indiscriminately although it comes pretty damn close. Millions of people have to flee their homes or endure frozen conditions lacking in communications. Instead of training up new soldiers and producing more weapons the population is instead worried about just surviving. It’s the long game.

I seen that plan and already been rubbished by the Russians. I suspect Zelinsky knew this would be the response anyway.

[Hairy-Joe]

I'm wondering if its a case of wondering who will blink first and hoping the other will blink?

Unfortunately, I can't see any of the two blinking and it'll be over when Ukraine pushes Russia almost all of the way out.

[KHD]

I'm wondering if its a case of wondering who will blink first and hoping the other will blink?

Unfortunately, I can't see any of the two blinking and it'll be over when Ukraine pushes Russia almost all of the way out.

Can't see Russia giving up the four annexed regions or Crimea. It would be political suicide for Putin now that he's basically enshrined them into law. I'd say the Russians also have their sights on Karkiv and Odessa as these were traditionally Russian cities in the eyes of the Russians.

It will either be a big offensive which will involve a large amount of casualties on both sides, as are the consequences of big arrow offensives or a continuation of the current slow grind and attritional fighting. From what I see and read the slow grind suits the Russians. I'm not sure what the continuing build up of Russian forces in Belarus is all about.

I don't see it ending anytime soon as Stoltenberg is constantly rabbiting on that a defeat in Ukraine is a defeat for Nato. So both sides are locked into this for the long haul. As unknown said earlier the people that are really suffering at this stage are the civilians. And this is both the civilians in the east at the hands of the Ukrainians and the people of the west due to Russia hitting the power infrastructure and causing misery for millions. Make no mistake the Ukrainian army are no angels in any of this.

[kadman]

Not dragged in front of a war crimes trial?

Putin wont ever see a war crimes tribunal, just like Blair , Bush, ect,ect..... Real criminals never get the justice they deserve, they just get re elected and stay in positions of power.

[Del.Monte]

Putin wont ever see a war crimes tribunal, just like Blair , Bush, ect,ect..... Real criminals never get the justice they deserve, they just get re elected and stay in positions of power.

I don't know, sometimes things have a habit of catching up with the scumbags - Galtieri and his associates in Argentina: Saddam, Gaddafi and Osama bin Laden to name but a few. Putin is well aware of this and that's why some sort of get-out clause is essential no matter how distasteful.

[KHD]

Putin wont ever see a war crimes tribunal, just like Blair , Bush, ect,ect..... Real criminals never get the justice they deserve, they just get re elected and stay in positions of power.

The war crimes headline has been bandied about so much in this conflict, mostly for propaganda and newspaper headlines that it doesn't have the same chilling effect or alarm it once had,. Say like during the shocking events that took place in the Balkan conflict in the former Yugoslavia.

[knownunknown]

As Kyiv woke up to snow yesterday the Russian bombardment knocked out more power and now 10million Ukrainians are without power. Nearly 1/4.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63659370

[KHD]

I don't know, sometimes things have a habit of catching up with the scumbags - Galtieri and his associates in Argentina: Saddam, Gaddafi and Osama bin Laden to name but a few. Putin is well aware of this and that's why some sort of get-out clause is essential no matter how distasteful.

There is a video this morning showing the execution of a large group of Russian soldiers who were captured in Makeyevka, filmed by an idiot in the Ukrainian army being captured, ordered to the ground and subsequently shot in the head. This type of practice has been going since the start of the war and is not being reported on by the western mainstream media.

Also in Kherson yesterday, 39 civilians were shot dead as Russian collaborators and 74 were taken away, presumably by Ukraine's SBU to be interrogated ( tortured ) and probably end up being lined on the streets as another Russian war crime for the media.

Zelinsky would want to be careful which countries he travels to as much as Putin will need to be.

[knownunknown]

Is unprovoked war a war crime in and of itself? I thought it meant more crimes against humanity like the Srebrenica massacre. I mean there are deals happening all over the place like allowing soldiers and civilians to retreat(humanitarian corridors) as well as grain and fertiliser to be shipped through the Black Sea. There are levels to this and I could think of a few things Putin could do that would make him a lot more evil.

The media have a lot to answer for in what they report and what they don’t. They are shaping an incorrect narrative that is leading us on a collision path with world war. Just like on planks every bit of positive propaganda is repeated and not verified while anything that seems to help the Russian side is dispelled as propaganda disseminated by bots. It’s impossible to make sense of what’s happening if you only hear one side.

[Hairy-Joe]

I think some Russians knew when leaving Kerson they would never be back. Sure they dug up Potemkin and took his bones away with them.......

[95438756]

There is a video this morning showing the execution of a large group of Russian soldiers who were captured in Makeyevka, filmed by an idiot in the Ukrainian army being captured, ordered to the ground and subsequently shot in the head. This type of practice has been going since the start of the war and is not being reported on by the western mainstream media.

Also in Kherson yesterday, 39 civilians were shot dead as Russian collaborators and 74 were taken away, presumably by Ukraine's SBU to be interrogated ( tortured ) and probably end up being lined on the streets as another Russian war crime for the media.

Zelinsky would want to be careful which countries he travels to as much as Putin will need to be.

Another fool on the Ukrainian side has posted up on YouTube about comparing the city of Mariupol in Christmas 2021 to Mariupol now and the devastation on the city. What good will this do? The name of the YouTube channel is Glasnost Gone. I'm not going to watch the video, it won't do me any good.

Zelinsky needs to address the audience of such YouTube channel owners and instill a bit of discipline. Well, Zelensky's attire is more of a guerilla YouTube channel owner than that of a statesman is'nt it?

[KHD]

Is unprovoked war a war crime in and of itself? I thought it meant more crimes against humanity like the Srebrenica massacre. I mean there are deals happening all over the place like allowing soldiers and civilians to retreat(humanitarian corridors) as well as grain and fertiliser to be shipped through the Black Sea. There are levels to this and I could think of a few things Putin could do that would make him a lot more evil.

The media have a lot to answer for in what they report and what they don’t. They are shaping an incorrect narrative that is leading us on a collision path with world war. Just like on planks every bit of positive propaganda is repeated and not verified while anything that seems to help the Russian side is dispelled as propaganda disseminated by bots. It’s impossible to make sense of what’s happening if you only hear one side.

The media will always take sides depending on what side of the fence they are located in. This has always been the case during wars, except for a few who try to report objectively and are usually disparaged or sometimes assassinated. In the west here the main stream media will report on what they are given by western governments and Ukrainian officials and disregard any atrocities or information reported by journalists or media organisations based in Russian controlled territories and this will also be the case for the Russians on the other side.

Most people are happy with this setup as it means you don't feel in anyway uncomfortable about possible war crimes and atrocities carried out by the side on your side of the fence. You can claim the moral high ground, pretend that your side is squeaky clean and heroic in their actions and pass off anything else as just propaganda by the scum on the other side.

Interesting article on propaganda for anyone that's arsed.

https://johnpilger.com/articles/silenci ... nda-works-

[knownunknown]

Scary to see shelling around the nuclear plant in Zaporizhzhia. Apparently those things are designed to withstand such attacks though.

[KHD]

Scary to see shelling around the nuclear plant in Zaporizhzhia. Apparently those things are designed to withstand such attacks though.

The scarier thing to me is that no one in the EU, where the fallout from something like this will be most felt, is calling directly on Zelinsky to get his forces to stop doing this. Victory at any cost, even if it turns Europe into a radioactive wasteland. The Russians have control of the nuclear power plant at the moment. Leave them to it, there is nothing to be achieved by trying to destroy it.

Ukraine is building up large forces in Zaporizhzhia at the moment estimated to be around 25,000 soldiers for a planned offensive there.. What a reckless act to carry out in your own country with so many of your own soldiers located in the vicinity of the plant. Madness.

[knownunknown]

The scarier thing to me is that no one in the EU, where the fallout from something like this will be most felt, is calling directly on Zelinsky to get his forces to stop doing this. Victory at any cost, even if it turns Europe into a radioactive wasteland. The Russians have control of the nuclear power plant at the moment. Leave them to it, there is nothing to be achieved by trying to destroy it.

Ukraine is building up large forces in Zaporizhzhia at the moment estimated to be around 25,000 soldiers for a planned offensive there.. What a reckless act to carry out in your own country with so many of your own soldiers located in the vicinity of the plant. Madness.

I suppose he’s going to risk getting it back on his grid which supplied over 10% of the power. They could really do with power right now.