Should Ireland sell or give a county to Ukraine?

[Del.Monte]

Is this the thin end of the wedge: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/muns ... 24543.html

There are several counties that I can think of that wouldn't be missed (by me) - Cavan, Monaghan, Roscommon, Louth and Longford. The new County/Country could then be declared Ukrainian sovereign territory, all the refugees could be resettled there and the locals moved out. Just thinking outside the box.

[KHD]

Wexford

[Hairy-Joe]

You know, they are so resourceful they would make a better fist of it than us! They would embarrass us by turning it around and making it the envy of the rest of the country.

I'm prepared to sacrifice Kerry just to show up the Healy-Rae types

[Del.Monte]

Wexford

I suppose that I asked for that.

[kadman]

In answer to the op's question.


Yes .Only if Dels house is situated smack bang in the middle of the newly formed sovereign state of Wexkraine, where Dels house is surrounded by non english speaking neighbours......................................and he has no connection to the internet, and can only listen to Joe Duffy...daily.

Yeah, gets my vote

[JayZeus]

Let them have Leitrim.

If they can find it.

SPOILER:

It doesn't really exist.

[marhay70]

In answer to the op's question.


Yes .Only if Dels house is situated smack bang in the middle of the newly formed sovereign state of Wexkraine, where Dels house is surrounded by non english speaking neighbours......................................and he has no connection to the internet, and can only listen to Joe Duffy...daily.

Yeah, gets my vote

I think Del is actually a closet Joe Duffy fan. Why else would anybody subject themselves to daily torture, altruism? To paraphrase Shakespeare "Methinks he doth protest too much".
What you propose is probably a wet dream for him.

[Del.Monte]

As I suspected the Government now want to make provision for the 70k Ukrainians that are here to become residents. What happens if a couple of hundred thousand more arrive? The whole demographic of the country will be radically altered and we will see quotas for Ukrainians in the Dail, the Gardai etc.etc. and what happens when a chunk of the 200 million Nigerian population decide to head here?

Joe O'Brien, a Green Minister, was on Drivetime this evening and he was all in favour of filling the country with refugees even if they have nowhere to live. The Greens are going all-out to lose what little credibility they had left. https://www.greenparty.ie/people/joe-obrien

[kadman]

70k that they know nothing about................brilliant governance. And they wont do any investigation at all.Country is gone to pot for sure.70k immigrants, and our own youngest best brains are clamouring to get out. We are relegagting ourselves to a third world country. Brilliant policies.
Hurrah for the greens

[Jack The Stripper]

Out of the 70k if 5% are genuine war fleeing that is the total sum of it. I know many Ukrainians that were living in Poland and other eu countries that flew here to treasure Ireland when they heard of the lucrative place.
Take the Ukrainians that got their new council house lately, they in relation to last year are worth over €300k now. Claimed over €10k in dole, say two children another €3.5k, untold how much in donations and gifts they got and now a new council house worth €300k.
Us donkeys working to pay for it all. Even the rapists that are moving around the country will get a house before the Irish now.

[JayZeus]

Lads, I'm betting there was the same thing being said about plenty of Irish people in the UK, United States and Australia back in the 19th century. Or about Jewish migrants during the late 1930's. And countless other times when populations have been displaced en-masse as a consequence of bad bastards doing awful things.

I'm not saying this whole thing doesn't upset all sorts of socio-economic systems, creating imbalance and impacting on the 'fairness' of how things are handled, but as an Irishman I can't let that sheite slide. I've no doubt there's the same kind of thing as the "sure they leave the buggies at the bus-stop and get a new one from the social" we used to hear back a couple of decades ago. Don't buy into the line of crap they're selling you through all sorts of channels.

Decent Ukranians, in their MILLIONS are having their lives torn asunder by that horrible shit-streak in Russia. It's not ending any time soon. If it's elderly, women, children and men who aren't required to remain in Ukraine, I see no issue at all with them coming to Ireland. Ukranians are for the overwhelming part educated, honest, hard working people. They're the match of any of the best of the Polish immigrants who came to Ireland and worked their arses off to create lives for themselves and their families, built cross-cultural families and as far as I'm concerned led to the betterment of Irish society as a result. Everywhere I turned in Ireland at one stage I could find a hard grafting (not grifting) Polish immigrant, knuckling down and trying to get on with life and not holding their hands out at every turn. They're proud people. Ukranians are their match in this regard, without a doubt.

Dealing with this influx at those kind of numbers is not without its problems. By all means, criticise gobdaw politicians and populist political parties, but don't let these sentiments encroach of your humanity, your decency and your compassion for folks who are going through a turmoil in their lives that many of us would struggle to handle ourselves. Treat Ukranians with kindness, welcome them into your lives and don't blame them for a situation that is not of their making. The simple fact is, xenophobes will suggest this is the same as economic migration from sub-saharan Africa (or wherever else they want to point towards where people don't look the same, don't speak the same and don't act the same as them), but this is nothing of the sort.

There was a point in time when almost 1 in 8 in Ireland were Polish. We're so far off that in this situation that it doesn't even warrant the kind of concern we're showing now. Give people shelter, support them and give them an opportunity to contribute, and then watch what they do in return. Ukranians, those who may choose to stay and at least until they have the possibility of returning to a safe western homeland, will demonstrate just who they are as people. They're good people, in incredibly difficult circumstances. Most will prove themselves the best of people. A small few with be rat-bags.

Just like Irish people. Let's face it, if we managed to deal with our Irish born-and-bred scoungers, we wouldn't have half the problems we have today with affordable social housing. These deserving and genuinely reluctant Ukranian migrants are just shining a light on our problems, not creating them in the first place.

[Jack The Stripper]

I’m not going to quote your long post but the start of it is a crock of dung. This comparison of the Irish going to the uk and USA isn’t a first cousin of the current intended plantations.
No one is going to take you seriously unless you start accepting basic facts.

[Norman Breaks]

Should Ireland sell or give a county to Ukraine?

No. /thread.

[Del.Monte]

Putin and his supporters are worthless scum but that doesn't alter the fact that the Ukrainians are not altogether innocent in the whole affair and the country was embroiled in very strange goings on well before the Crimea annexation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact
America/NATO are using Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia to what end it is unclear. It has to be asked for how much longer is Putin going to put up the armaments being shipped into the Ukraine from the West before he, or one if his generals, does something really stupid. If as much effort was put into stopping the war as has been put into tooling up the Ukraine we would all be in a much better place.

[678904673]

Offaly. A place that exists solely for people to be from before they move somewhere else

[JayZeus]

I’m not going to quote your long post but the start of it is a crock of dung. This comparison of the Irish going to the uk and USA isn’t a first cousin of the current intended plantations.
No one is going to take you seriously unless you start accepting basic facts.

It's not as different as you'd like it to be.

NIMBY-ism at its finest.

[Jack The Stripper]

It's not as different as you'd like it to be.

NIMBY-ism at its finest.

It is, why don’t you bring the population pre famine sceal into it as well. It’s Monday, let’s make it a right comedy sketch.

[JayZeus]

It is, why don’t you bring the population pre famine sceal into it as well. It’s Monday, let’s make it a right comedy sketch.

I think you're just argumentative, as opposed to having an actual argument to make that's worth engaging in to be fair.

[Jack The Stripper]

I think you're just argumentative, as opposed to having an actual argument to make that's worth engaging in to be fair.

I’m 100% open to debate, I called you out on that load of dung and you are just throwing the toys out of the cot.

[JayZeus]

I’m 100% open to debate, I called you out on that load of dung and you are just throwing the toys out of the cot.

You're not open to a debate at all. You just want to argue, and that's a very different thing.

The fact of the matter is that I'm totally relaxed about this whole situation, so I'm not in the slightest annoyed or frustrated by the numbers of Ukranian war refugees, the participation of any particular politicians or political parties in discourse or decision making regarding the provision of housing and other supports, the short or longer term implications vis-a-vis anything in particular.

I'd like Ukranian people to be treated kindly by Irish people, for as long as they need our help, in as much as we can. By all people, but in particular by Irish people. I mean, it won't happen everywhere nor will the discussion at every kitchen table be one based on deep rooted compassion for people who are suffering, and I know that, but in an ideal world folks would be a little less prepared to make their situation and suffering and consequently their obligation or responsibility to them a point of argument amongst themselves.

But telling me I've to accept what you consider to be facts, in your first reply to me, well that's your first mistake if you genuinely wanted to debate anything here. They're not facts in the first place so arguing with you over the point you wish to is a total waste of time and energy. It's not a component in an intelligent debate that can have a productive outcome.

We can disagree, surely, and still get on with our day here. I'm not beaten, haven't lost, given up or otherwise. I can just see that you're either a bit wound up or are on the wind-up. In either case, I'm not interested enough in 'debating' when it's really just a pointless argument. You'll never better me in actual debate, as that much is plain to see, and I'm not inclined to argue with you down at that level just for entertainment.

Have a nice night anyway.

[Jack The Stripper]

You're not open to a debate at all. You just want to argue, and that's a very different thing.

The fact of the matter is that I'm totally relaxed about this whole situation, so I'm not in the slightest annoyed or frustrated by the numbers of Ukranian war refugees, the participation of any particular politicians or political parties in discourse or decision making regarding the provision of housing and other supports, the short or longer term implications vis-a-vis anything in particular.

I'd like Ukranian people to be treated kindly by Irish people, for as long as they need our help, in as much as we can. By all people, but in particular by Irish people. I mean, it won't happen everywhere nor will the discussion at every kitchen table be one based on deep rooted compassion for people who are suffering, and I know that, but in an ideal world folks would be a little less prepared to make their situation and suffering and consequently their obligation or responsibility to them a point of argument amongst themselves.

But telling me I've to accept what you consider to be facts, in your first reply to me, well that's your first mistake if you genuinely wanted to debate anything here. They're not facts in the first place so arguing with you over the point you wish to is a total waste of time and energy. It's not a component in an intelligent debate that can have a productive outcome.

We can disagree, surely, and still get on with our day here. I'm not beaten, haven't lost, given up or otherwise. I can just see that you're either a bit wound up or are on the wind-up. In either case, I'm not interested enough in 'debating' when it's really just a pointless argument. You'll never better me in actual debate, as that much is plain to see, and I'm not inclined to argue with you down at that level just for entertainment.

Have a nice night anyway.

I hope your ngo got good over time for that Oscar winning post. Carry this back to the start are you of genuine belief that the Irish that went to uk, USA etc is the modern day of what we are experiencing now in Ireland?
I don’t recall the Irish being put up in four star hotels in Manhattan and London. Being given three square meals and pocket money and when the occasion arose claimed to be a different nationality to be a gimmigrant.

[JayZeus]

I hope your ngo got good over time for that Oscar winning post. Carry this back to the start are you of genuine belief that the Irish that went to uk, USA etc is the modern day of what we are experiencing now in Ireland?
I don’t recall the Irish being put up in four star hotels in Manhattan and London. Being given three square meals and pocket money and when the occasion arose claimed to be a different nationality to be a gimmigrant.

I've stated my position with a reasonable amount of eloquence in the post above your reply. With the minimum mandated measure of respect, I won't be replying to you again.

[Jack The Stripper]

I've stated my position with a reasonable amount of eloquence in the post above your reply. With the minimum mandated measure of respect, I won't be replying to you again.

You won’t be answering the questions you don’t like being asked. And you with the nimby do as I say not as I do. Pathetic.

[marhay70]

Aggression and name-calling have no place in debate. Debate on facts or not at all.

[Jack The Stripper]

Some ngo or government person thought they had struck gold when they decided to compare the Irish fado leaving for the states with the current plantation.
Its all they have to say before they come out accusing people of nimbyism or waycist. It’s time to sit back and let the country go down the sewer like Sweden where no woman or child is safe in some cities.
Reality will kick in a few years, it will be too late then. The penny will finally drop that they weren’t Ukrainians at all.