Welcome to GUBU.ie - if you're new here check out Housekeeping for more info. Any queries contact us. We're aware of an issue that our activation emails are not getting through to a handful of gmail users. If you registered but did not receive an activation email, let us know. If you're not so new here, you can dismiss this message.

Conversion Therapy

The burning issues of the day
Post Reply
User avatar
Memento Mori
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:22 pm

Conversion Therapy

#1

Post by Memento Mori »

A number of countries throughout the world have already, or are seeking to, ban conversion therapy. I understand how forcing someone to be something they are not can be damaging and have terrible results mentally. While 'therapy' does not automatically involve coercion or force, it does seem that some, although not all, of the people who undergo this 'therapy' are essentially forced.

Much of the opposition to conversion therapy seems to necessitate the underlying claim that gender and sexual orientation are naturally determined phenomena inherent to a person's physical being- and that seeking to overturn these is a damaging fool's errand, a violation of some natural law - an abuse contrary to nature. If this is your starting point I can understand the opposition to conversion therapy.

However, many of the fiercest opponents of conversion therapy, who tend to be activists on a range of LGBTQI+ issues, make the claim that gender, and sexual orientation, are not naturally determined phenomena inherent to our physical being but are rather social constructs (or don't exist). If this is the case, if one decides they want to be a different gender or orientation, why should they not have therapy - of their own free will - in order to 'deconstruct' these constructions?
kadman
Verified Username
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:14 pm

Re: Conversion Therapy

#2

Post by kadman »

Memento Mori wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:30 am A number of countries throughout the world have already, or are seeking to, ban conversion therapy. I understand how forcing someone to be something they are not can be damaging and have terrible results mentally. While 'therapy' does not automatically involve coercion or force, it does seem that some, although not all, of the people who undergo this 'therapy' are essentially forced.

Much of the opposition to conversion therapy seems to necessitate the underlying claim that gender and sexual orientation are naturally determined phenomena inherent to a person's physical being- and that seeking to overturn these is a damaging fool's errand, a violation of some natural law - an abuse contrary to nature. If this is your starting point I can understand the opposition to conversion therapy.

However, many of the fiercest opponents of conversion therapy, who tend to be activists on a range of LGBTQI+ issues, make the claim that gender, and sexual orientation, are not naturally determined phenomena inherent to our physical being but are rather social constructs (or don't exist). If this is the case, if one decides they want to be a different gender or orientation, why should they not have therapy - of their own free will - in order to 'deconstruct' these constructions?
I think you are going to find that peoples support of free will stems from what they believe it coincides with their own views on a topic whether they would support it or not.
We might like to think we support everyone elses choices of free will, in reality we dont, rather like the views on vaccine choice here, some want to force their views on others, its human nature.

Conversion therapy is a horrible thing for a free thinking person.
kadman
Verified Username
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:14 pm

Re: Conversion Therapy

#3

Post by kadman »

Its indoctrination by another name, and we have had centuries of conversion therapy under other names, like, crusades, missions,aboriginies, native americans have all had decades of it, there is an endless list.
User avatar
Banshee Bones
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:30 am

Re: Conversion Therapy

#4

Post by Banshee Bones »

Hopefully they extend the ban to converting chidlren to the opposite sex
Mountain
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:36 pm

Re: Conversion Therapy

#5

Post by Mountain »

Memento Mori wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:30 am A number of countries throughout the world have already, or are seeking to, ban conversion therapy. I understand how forcing someone to be something they are not can be damaging and have terrible results mentally. While 'therapy' does not automatically involve coercion or force, it does seem that some, although not all, of the people who undergo this 'therapy' are essentially forced.

Much of the opposition to conversion therapy seems to necessitate the underlying claim that gender and sexual orientation are naturally determined phenomena inherent to a person's physical being- and that seeking to overturn these is a damaging fool's errand, a violation of some natural law - an abuse contrary to nature. If this is your starting point I can understand the opposition to conversion therapy.

However, many of the fiercest opponents of conversion therapy, who tend to be activists on a range of LGBTQI+ issues, make the claim that gender, and sexual orientation, are not naturally determined phenomena inherent to our physical being but are rather social constructs (or don't exist). If this is the case, if one decides they want to be a different gender or orientation, why should they not have therapy - of their own free will - in order to 'deconstruct' these constructions?
Isn't one of the main objections the point that, whether it's futile because you cannot change sexual orientation, or because orientation is all a social construct, either way it has no basis in science. It's just...nonsense, a mix of pseudoscience and religion.
User avatar
Memento Mori
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:22 pm

Re: Conversion Therapy

#6

Post by Memento Mori »

Mountain wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:14 pm Isn't one of the main objections the point that, whether it's futile because you cannot change sexual orientation, or because orientation is all a social construct, either way it has no basis in science. It's just...nonsense, a mix of pseudoscience and religion.
If you mean that point is one of the main objections to conversion therapy, then implicit in that argument, and a necessary prerequisite, is the idea that gender/orientation being a social construct has a basis in science. It does not, nor does any gnostic type idea that we have an inner "true self" that has a different identity to our physical being and that we can be "assigned" at birth an incorrect gender identity that is different from this inner being/identity/self/soul etc.
Post Reply