Burke family, Castlebar

[Hairy-Joe]

Blimey, is that a criminal record then?

I've zero legal training (so could be wrong) but I don't think this would be a criminal record.

[95438756]

I've zero legal training (so could be wrong) but I don't think this would be a criminal record.

just not nutjob enough to be put on Dundrum mental hospital
EDIT Dundrum hospital won't quite have capacity for more than 1 admission and we know who that's going to be.
But back on topic, yer man's resumé is ruined

[artybike]

I don't think they're crazy, but I do think they've been raised & despite a college education, remain in a bubble.

How does a teacher make a living if he can't work with/for other people. As I mentioned before, the Burkes can't seem to get on with fellow conservative believers

[Hairy-Joe]

I think they believe that they are superior to other common folk and are being persecuted for their strong religious beliefs. Due their strong religious beliefs, they cloak everything in terms of religious discrimination but in reality, they are just arseholes

[95438756]

^^^ Its a COMPLEX they have hairy.

[marhay70]

A lot of these Evangelical Christians are absolute nutjobs, for example, Westboro Baptist Church in the US. Most of them are founded by and revolve around, one person and are reflective of their views, rather than any traditional teachings.
I think it was Louis Theroux who did a feature on Westboro a few years ago and it really was revelatory. The absolute bile and venom that was spouted against their fellow human beings, particularly gay people, was frightening to watch, lingering in the back of your mind was the thought that "these fcukers are legally entitled to own an assault rifle"
A search has confirmed it was Theroux and was called "The Most Hated Family in America", if you can find it anywhere, it's worth a watch.
It's an example of how gullible people can be lured into cults by the whole God thing, sharing a platform with the RCC and others on that one, but while circumstances have mellowed the traditional cults over the years, these latter day ones only seem to get more extreme.

[Hairy-Joe]

Well, he's still cooling off in 'joy......

He thinks he's a martyr for his cause. He's simply an arrogant fool who had his bluff called by his contempt of the court.

[Del.Monte]

Arrogant he may be but yet again the justice system is more concerned about its petty rules than justice. If he had killed somebody he would probably be given the probation act for previous good behaviour. Anyway the case is quite entertaining.

[artybike]

I finally met a pastor today who had been asked to speak to the Burkes at the time of the NUIG controversy as a mediator, a really decent guy. They refused to speak to anyone
When I asked him, what church they belonged to, he basically said, they're there own church. He said he believes it's a case of exceptionalism

Furthermore, the Examiner reports that Burke didn't teach the student he was protesting over, and wouldn't have contact with 'them' (him)
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/cour ... um=twitter

The upshot I guess is;
Folk now know the Burkes, which is what they want
Prospective employers have the heads up if the Burkes apply for a job, that their workplace/company may be used as a place to ideological protest and conflict, if they employ them
The Burkes are having a day in the sun. They've hit the jackpot, they finally have supporters... for now
Enoch, because he's 'choosing' to be in prison, may loose support when everyone realises he's costing the tax payer... and they do a bit of a background check on them to discover they are a spectacular example of a Martyr complex

I'd be fascinated to read a book written by a rogue Burke who may 'break out' of the cult in the next few years

[artybike]

I just found out today, that the Burke family protested Aontas meetings a few years back. They are the Association of Evangelical Christians of Ireland

I honestly don't know a genuine evangelical believer, who knows them, who agrees with them. They'd fight with their cornflakes

[Hairy-Joe]

Did they not read their Bible and see the part about love thy neighbor?

[Del.Monte]

They maybe as mad as a box of frogs but I wouldn't put up with this nonsense either - what puts these crazy ideas into the heads of kids anyway. No need to answer.

[Mirabeau]

Their behavior screams of moralistic self-righteousness.

I not really concerned about their beliefs, there are plenty non-religious people equally as sententious.

They have absolutely no problem with having a go at anyone for perceived slights.

They all live in an ego bubble and they get a brain-wrong when confronted with anything remotely outside their tiny tiny paradigm.
A spell in jail would be a wake-up call for myself but aul' Enoch will think himself akin to one of the early Christian martyrs.

[schmittel]

Normally I’d have quite a lot of sympathy for somebody making a principled stand against this pronoun nonsense, particularly a teacher, but just can’t muster any support for this lad.

[Fratello]

 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind. It is abomination. Leviticus 18:22” 

See this article from 2010.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-sty ... d-1.620163

[Hairy-Joe]

I can have sympathy for someone doing something on principle. Taking a dignified stand makes the argument stronger. Shouting abuse at fellow colleagues and your direct line manager (the principal), interrupting a function to shout your views is not on. Ignoring a valid court order finished it off

[Hugh_Bigazz]

I don't think much of the Burke's, but it's not right for the media to slander them like they do, especially the independent. How can a newspaper get away with a headline like this?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/n ... 79428.html

[Hairy-Joe]

I don't think much of the Burke's, but it's not right for the media to slander them like they do, especially the independent. How can a newspaper get away with a headline like this?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/n ... 79428.html

How can the media get away with that? Probably because it's a direct quote so is accurate.

[Hugh_Bigazz]

Here's another
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/new ... 40093.html

Imagine that was written about a traveller, black or Muslim family? See now why it's wrong? It's actually disgraceful

[Cyclepath]

Here's another
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/new ... 40093.html

Imagine that was written about a traveller, black or Muslim family? See now why it's wrong? It's actually disgraceful

I think the mistake you're making here Hugh is conflating racism/hate speech (aimed at an entire race or category of people) with criticism of a specific number of folks that share a surname. They can be conveniently referred to as 'the Burkes' for reporting purposes but nobody is saying that all Burkes are like that! Equally, nobody is saying that all evangelical christians are like that either...

[Cyclepath]

I completely support their right to free speech and it seems nobody has prevented them at any time exercising that right. I think the issue is that they are contrarians - the children have all been brainwashed in their claustrophobic schooling and upbringing. They've created their own little world with their own school and bookshop! I'd love to know how they finance themselves...

They have a scornful and disapproving attitude to a large portion of what everyone else considers normal lifestyle. Their superiority complex and willingness to exercise their free speech means that locals and neighbours genuinely dislike and avoid them. And those people are within their rights to be vocal in their opposition too.

Newspaper never refused ink and there's your result.

[Hugh_Bigazz]

I think the mistake you're making here Hugh is conflating racism/hate speech (aimed at an entire race or category of people) with criticism of a specific number of folks that share a surname. They can be conveniently referred to as 'the Burkes' for reporting purposes but nobody is saying that all Burkes are like that! Equally, nobody is saying that all evangelical christians are like that either...

It's the same thing as running with the headline "they're not wanted here"! Would they do headlines like this for a traveller family? They wouldn't because they would be called out for it, it's pretty close to incitement to hatred. Regardless of what local people said the media have a duty not to print stuff like this

[knownunknown]

I don’t know anything about this family but I’d be worried given what has happened with other controversial figures, they are used as a way to squash dissent, ‘well you’re a Burke supporter I suppose’ kind of thing.(Ala trump, Gemma, Putin etc..)

Of course the issue of pronouns is buried within, but without all this nonsense none of this would have happened at all. At the end of the day he was trying to continue to do his job despite the court ruling, something he was getting paid for anyway. I know I would have just sat at home on my ass.

Maybe they are as bad as everyone makes out, but I’d like to see the video of what happened and what behaviour warranted a court order in the first place. If this is as reprehensible as everyone makes out then I could get on board. If it was punitive then I could understand his behaviour around the refusing to comply with the court ruling. The proof is in the pudding.

[Cyclepath]

Yeah I see the issue here alright - and if it wasn't for a well documented track record on the part of most of the family members, I'd probably have more sympathy for him!

I despise the pronoun police and general b0lloxology that's taken off in recent years, but this particular hill isn't the one you want to die on. Any sensible person would vocalise their distaste and get on with the business of teaching while simply avoiding the use of pronouns.

It's actually quite easy - you don't have to use any pronouns at all. Simply stop talking about that person in the third person. If you must refer to the person, use their name rather than he/him/she/her/they/them. When addressing the person just avoid using Mr/Mrs/Ms etc.

This scenario was raised in my workplace during a Diversity and Inclusion session. When asked how I would refer to someone that requested pronouns that didn't seem to align with their presenting gender, I said that I would make concerted efforts to avoid referring to that person at all. They asked why and I answered that the situation would be fraught with risk to my own employment.

The risk of misinterpretation, or an honest mistaken use of a pronoun could trigger a response from HR that would endanger me personally. So why take the risk? There was a general agreement with that point and I reckon it really got people thinking about the possibilities.

I think that this may become more of an issue in the future, whereby people actively avoid trans folks that appear in any way militant around pronouns. It's simple risk avoidance. Or maybe who knows, we'll all learn to live in gender bending harmony...

[RandallWeems]

The man should be appladed for sticking to his guns. He has shown integrty. Some of his methods might not be approved but someone has to stand up to any school tat will put feelings about hard scientific facts. Its a shocking disgrace that he was put in jail for highlighting how silly teh school is being.