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Burke family, Castlebar

The burning issues of the day
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#151

Post by Hairy-Joe »

And for being so feckin' stupid to go back breaking the court order, he should be fired back into Mountjoy.

If you or I broke court order so brazenly, we'd be arrested.
Jack The Stripper
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#152

Post by Jack The Stripper »

The parents of the they must have shat their panties
gugleguy
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#153

Post by gugleguy »

All Enoch is missing now is wearing his Mankini for the photoshoot.
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isha
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#154

Post by isha »

Here's an interesting intersection between incel culture and transgenderism just to show how far this whole thing can go, is going and will undoubtedly keep going. Right meets left in Transmaxxing.

https://www.piratewires.com/p/transmaxx ... um=reader2
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
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Diamonds of Frost
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#155

Post by Diamonds of Frost »

They will still be themselves though. The incel types won't suddenly move in to an acceptance of who they are as individuals and a sense of their own worth by becoming a woman. Hatred of themselves is at their centre.

In fact changing gender for anyone won't change your core. I think there is a strong link between early trauma, mental health issues and transgenderism. It's just an opinion and I have nothing to back it up.

It's one of the reasons I find it concerning to hear about teens transitioning. They are fragile years and I would put them on a par with the first 4 years of life. Absolutely pivotal to our emotional and psychological development.
Teenagers want to be a part of something, want to belong. If they feel the more traditional groups are closed to them well that's ok because there's the gender curious one.

It's far more complex than that I know and no doubt there are people who authentically feel that they aren't male or they aren't female. I just think they are few and far between.
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isha
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#156

Post by isha »

Diamonds of Frost wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 5:50 pm . I think there is a strong link between early trauma, mental health issues and transgenderism. It's just an opinion and I have nothing to back it up.

It's one of the reasons I find it concerning to hear about teens transitioning. They are fragile years and I would put them on a par with the first 4 years of life.
Recently I listened to some videos from a
YouTube channel called Soft White Underbelly and he interviewed a young man who had identified as a trans woman for several years. Amazing lad. The trauma he went through as a kid is unspeakable. In fact on the channel there are loads of people who got into various things eg drugs, prostitution, etc, and when they tell their stories there is far too often childhood abuse at the heart. It's sickening how common it appears to be. We are globally ignoring the evil of early trauma. It's the thing people don't want to talk about.

Not a channel for feeling great afterwards to be fair.
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
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isha
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#157

Post by isha »

This is the guy, Jake

Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
Jack The Stripper
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#158

Post by Jack The Stripper »

Diamonds of Frost wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 5:50 pm They will still be themselves though. The incel types won't suddenly move in to an acceptance of who they are as individuals and a sense of their own worth by becoming a woman. Hatred of themselves is at their centre.

In fact changing gender for anyone won't change your core. I think there is a strong link between early trauma, mental health issues and transgenderism. It's just an opinion and I have nothing to back it up.

It's one of the reasons I find it concerning to hear about teens transitioning. They are fragile years and I would put them on a par with the first 4 years of life. Absolutely pivotal to our emotional and psychological development.
Teenagers want to be a part of something, want to belong. If they feel the more traditional groups are closed to them well that's ok because there's the gender curious one.

It's far more complex than that I know and no doubt there are people who authentically feel that they aren't male or they aren't female. I just think they are few and far between.
It’s what is in vogue at the moment, people wanna be vegans etc. John wants to try out being Julie for a while.
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Del.Monte
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#159

Post by Del.Monte »

isha wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:55 pm Here's an interesting intersection between incel culture and transgenderism just to show how far this whole thing can go, is going and will undoubtedly keep going. Right meets left in Transmaxxing.

https://www.piratewires.com/p/transmaxx ... um=reader2
Very weird stuff. :o
'no more blah blah blah'
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#160

Post by Hairy-Joe »

isha wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:55 pm Here's an interesting intersection between incel culture and transgenderism just to show how far this whole thing can go, is going and will undoubtedly keep going. Right meets left in Transmaxxing.

https://www.piratewires.com/p/transmaxx ... um=reader2
I tried to read it but honestly, I gave up as there was so many terms and wordage I didn't understand and I got tired of Googling. Googling led me down other rabbit holes (gender of Rabbit and the origin of the hole unknown)
gugleguy
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#161

Post by gugleguy »

Please go away you have no true friends left.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/01 ... och-burke/
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isha
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#162

Post by isha »

gugleguy wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:54 am Please go away you have no true friends left.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/01 ... och-burke/
As it happens the longer it goes on the more I agree with him... though doubtful I would be able to get along with him specifically on a personal level. 😬

But on the level of principles I tend towards agreeing with his principle ( not his principal!)

He doesn't agree with the idea of trans-genderism ie he holds that sex can't be changed. I think he is entitled to a religious exemption from being forced to affirm what is contrary to his belief. How would you feel if he was compelled to affirm breast ironing instead of potentially breast binding? Or FGM instead of sterilisation by puberty blockers and cross sex hormones?

If he was asked to address a child as if that child was Asian, say like Oli London who claimed to be Korean for a while, how would you feel if he refused to participate in institutionally- compelled trans-ethnicity affirmation?

For another example there are trans age subcultures now and not insignificant trans species (furries) subcultures - how would you feel if he refused to affirm a child's cat or wolf-self and pronouns?

I too agree that sex cannot be changed. Non binary suggests there is an intermediate state where one is neither male or female. It's untrue. How about if the non binary identified student wanted to be called IT or No self or some other nihilist pronouns?
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Jack The Stripper
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#163

Post by Jack The Stripper »

He will stay going to school till the court date on the 11th.
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#164

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Well Isha, the school is in a bind and must pick the "Lessor of two evils", to borrow a phrase.

First is if he stays teaching, the student could take a case of discrimination against the school on sexual grounds. Given the way our discrimination legislation is written, it's a slam dunk win for the student against the school and Burke.

Second is what's happening at the moment, a teacher not following the lawful direction of his imitate line manager (the principal) to call a student by a preferred name.

From a school perspective, they really have no choice as allowing Burke would open them to a discrimination case that they would loose.

As for Burke's strongly held religious beliefs, I respect someone who has such strong religious beliefs. I've zero respect when they try to force them on others (and I call this name thing forcing it on others)
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isha
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#165

Post by isha »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:09 pm Well Isha, the school is in a bind and must pick the "Lessor of two evils", to borrow a phrase.

First is if he stays teaching, the student could take a case of discrimination against the school on sexual grounds. Given the way our discrimination legislation is written, it's a slam dunk win for the student against the school and Burke.

Second is what's happening at the moment, a teacher not following the lawful direction of his imitate line manager (the principal) to call a student by a preferred name.

From a school perspective, they really have no choice as allowing Burke would open them to a discrimination case that they would loose.

As for Burke's strongly held religious beliefs, I respect someone who has such strong religious beliefs. I've zero respect when they try to force them on others (and I call this name thing forcing it on others)
I agree they are in a bind.

Hopefully the situation will plough on (probably painfully slowly) and Burke is dismissed and he goes to court and there will be a ruling similar to the one in the UK re Maya Forstater that the gender theory critical belief that sex is immutable is a protected opinion one can hold and not be discriminated against for holding.

Hopefully this will happen and then the school will still have a quandary. But that's for future them.

Future me also hopes that some day in the not too distant future affirmation of minors gender identity will not be compelled or considered useful. It leads to dreadful iatrogenic harm.
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#166

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Well, after a day in court, it's "as you are" until Monday/Tuesday
knownunknown
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#167

Post by knownunknown »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:09 pm the student could take a case of discrimination against the school on sexual grounds. Given the way our discrimination legislation is written, it's a slam dunk win for the student against the school and Burke.
Our legislation is wrong then, that’s ridiculous and needs to change. The sooner people realise this the better, for the children especially.
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#168

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Well, Burke learned today what's good for the goose, is good for the gander. As he is incapable of following court orders, he can't get one himself.
knownunknown
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#169

Post by knownunknown »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:03 pm Well, Burke learned today what's good for the goose, is good for the gander. As he is incapable of following court orders, he can't get one himself.
The injunction the school took out saw Burke imprisoned in solitary for 3 months. The injunction Burke sought was not granted even though the court acknowledged he satisfied the standard for it. What’s good for the goose is not good for the gander at all.

“ Yesterday, Mr Justice Conor Dignam said Mr Burke had met the test to be granted the injunctions he sought as he had shown he had a strong case likely to succeed at trial.”. Yet this case likely to succeed was denied for punitive reasons. Justice.
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#170

Post by Hairy-Joe »

It was denied as he was looking for something (a court order) that he had shown that he has ignored.

"Judge Dignam said the enforceability of court orders was a central plank of any system based on the rule of law.

He said people could not pick and choose when to comply with a court order based on their own assessment of the court’s correctness."

Taken from RTE.

Taking Burke's logic, I can do what ever I want (break speed limits, kill small kids, libel people etc) and claim that it's my religion to break speed limits, kill kids, libel people.
knownunknown
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#171

Post by knownunknown »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:56 pm It was denied as he was looking for something (a court order) that he had shown that he has ignored.

"Judge Dignam said the enforceability of court orders was a central plank of any system based on the rule of law.

He said people could not pick and choose when to comply with a court order based on their own assessment of the court’s correctness."

Taken from RTE.

Taking Burke's logic, I can do what ever I want (break speed limits, kill small kids, libel people etc) and claim that it's my religion to break speed limits, kill kids, libel people.
The school’s injunction was based upon, according to burke, a refusal to use pronouns. He turned up to an empty classroom to protest. He was jailed for 3 months.

His injunction is based upon the principal lying about him, something the judge said was likely to succeed.

There is no justice here only punitive measures to deter others from refusing to do the same.
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#172

Post by Hairy-Joe »

knownunknown wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:00 pm The school’s injunction was based upon, according to burke, a refusal to use pronouns. He turned up to an empty classroom to protest. He was jailed for 3 months.

His injunction is based upon the principal lying about him, something the judge said was likely to succeed.

There is no justice here only punitive measures to deter others from refusing to do the same.
I respectfully disagree. There is a legal recourse for Burke through the courts. Granted the courts can take a while but by blatantly ignoring legal process by ignoring court orders, it's a case of "do as I say, not as I do". Burke's are VERY familiar with how the legal system works and have a history of ignoring what they don't like.

The rights and wrong of transgenderism is not in court. It's his behaviour of ignoring an instruction from his line manager for an instruction for his duties. The fact that it's against his beliefs is not protected in law. If a Muslim, for example, is hired as a chef in a hotel and is told to prepare an Irish Breakfast. If they object to the sausages and rashers being in their presence on religious grounds and refuse to work under the new circumstances, the hotel can legally terminate their employment. It's the same here.
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#173

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Anyway, I can see the school terminating his employment, Burke taking an action for illegal termination of employment. The action will be settled outside the court with some compensation, much like his sister.
knownunknown
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#174

Post by knownunknown »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:21 pm Anyway, I can see the school terminating his employment, Burke taking an action for illegal termination of employment. The action will be settled outside the court with some compensation, much like his sister.
If they were right in the matter then the principal wouldn’t have to lie about it, doesn’t matter anymore he got away with it.
knownunknown
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Re: Burke family, Castlebar

#175

Post by knownunknown »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:18 pm I respectfully disagree. There is a legal recourse for Burke through the courts. Granted the courts can take a while but by blatantly ignoring legal process by ignoring court orders, it's a case of "do as I say, not as I do". Burke's are VERY familiar with how the legal system works and have a history of ignoring what they don't like.

The rights and wrong of transgenderism is not in court. It's his behaviour of ignoring an instruction from his line manager for an instruction for his duties. The fact that it's against his beliefs is not protected in law. If a Muslim, for example, is hired as a chef in a hotel and is told to prepare an Irish Breakfast. If they object to the sausages and rashers being in their presence on religious grounds and refuse to work under the new circumstances, the hotel can legally terminate their employment. It's the same here.
The rights and wrongs of compelled speech should have made its way to court but the system and the school Jerry rigged it not to.

The initial injunction that burke broke, that saw him jailed, was for what Joe? Something the judge now admits the principal lied about. To ignore this is to stick one’s head in the sand and ignore reality.

If I sought a restraining order against you, and lied about you in my application, and you got suspended from your job because of that, I bet you would think it would be fair to turn up to your workplace to protest that. Just try and put yourself in that situation. You have evidence of my lies but the judge won’t hear it because you tried to stand up for yourself. What a justice system, eh.
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