Trans shows hate towards Christian preacher

[tinydancer]

The preacher hits the nail on the head, the world is following the lead of the insane, enough is enough, these people need serious mental health help but the mental health profession is making too much money pandering to them to actually tell them they are mad.

[Will I Amn’t]

He was being a complete dick in fairness

[NickNickleby]

I've only met one trans person (as far as I know) and that person was really struggling with themself. It was a boy who was undergoing treatment to become a girl. I was a public official trying to help her negotiate the bureaucratic nightmare that enveloped her. I felt nothing but compassion for her. She wasn't screaming into my face about her rights , her only agenda was to be accepted for who she was. I like to believe that I made the journey a little less bumpy. I'm sure most of us would be the same.
So, wheen I see videos like that one, I wonder why someone who has overcome serious obstacles to become ,say, a woman, would insist on shouting from the rooftops that they have done so. Rather than just BE the woman they want to be, and get on with it.

The girl in my story just wanted to put an end to years of confusion and doubt.
By the way, the preacher is a pain. Difference these days leads to outright aggression instead of debate and acceptance of differing views.

[46a]

It does seem the transexulals want everyone to accept their choice to transition and be tolerant of them , but they have zero respect and tolerance for anyone who does not endorse their delusion, you can see they are calling men who dont want to date trans women bigots, that would make me a bigot just because i have zero interest in feminine penis!
Its pure madness, they want acceptance for who they are, but dont want straight men to be accepted for who they are , that is not having any interest in transexuals, pure hypocrisy but then why expect anything else from delusional people.
I wish them well, but do your own thing and dont cause problems for those who are not interested in you or your choices in living your life.

[Leroy42]

There is a big difference in calling out people who won't accept you and not accepting other people.

I haven't seen or heard any Trans person claim that the person they are talking with is not who they claim to be (man or woman). Yet others, like this 'preacher', seem to think it perfectly acceptable that he can tell this woman to think and feel the way he wants her to.

Not wanting to date a person because of a preconceived bias is the very nature of being a bigot. You are placing a value on someone based on your preconceived bias. It is completely different that sexual attraction, that is chemical and people like what they like. But you may well like the look of a trans woman (or man) but then you will discard them simply because they started life as something else.
But it goes deeper than that. Not only are trans people not accepted as potential mates, they are rejected as being even the person they claim to be. It is one thing being told you are not attractive to someone, another thing entirely to be told that you are not even a man.

Imagine you asked a girl out. She rejects you, fine. But then she turns around and starts berating you for not being a real man because she heard you penis was small, or that you were crap in bed. But she does it in front of everyone. All the time.

They are not calling for straight men to like a penis, any more than gay men are.

What problems are they causing? Are they forcing you to date them, forcing you to have sex with them? No, the only problem they are causing is that it makes you uncomfortable to talk about it.

[Hodors Appletart]

wait a minute, are you saying that not being attracted to a person because they have a penis is somehow bigotry?

that is a mad claim.

when I'm attracted to and would like to enjoy sexual intimacy with a woman, then my expectation is that at some point I'm going to encounter a vagina.

Now, if I'm forewarned that a penis is in play, then I will make a decision based on that new information. Having sex with a woman, for me, means the involvement of only a single penis. My own.

[Leroy42]

No, as you point out yourself, you are making the decision based on sexual attraction. But that is not the sole purpose, or indeed value, of a human. When you first see the person, you have no idea of their background, their history etc. If you are attracted to them, or not, that is perfectly reasonable to accept as that is a chemical response. We like what we like.

If you are attracted to them, and then they inform you they have a penis, again it is perfectly acceptable to not want to go any further.

Your attraction to that person is not driven by the knowledge of them having a penis or not. There are plenty of anecdotes of people hooking up with attractive women only to find out later!

But this isn't about sexual attraction. Whether you personally are attracted to a trans person or not is entirely up to you. What is not right is telling that person they they are not who they claim to be, simply because you don't accept it.

And that is what this 'preacher' and many others like him, are so fond or telling trans people. That they are wrong to think like they do, they are defective, they are sinners, etc etc. They have no right to do that.

So the point that trans people are similar because "they have zero respect and tolerance for anyone who does not endorse their delusion" isn't even remotely the same. They have zero tolerance for people that attack them, they are not attacking that person as a person, they are attacking their views on them as a person.

[46a]

There is a big difference in calling out people who won't accept you and not accepting other people.

I haven't seen or heard any Trans person claim that the person they are talking with is not who they claim to be (man or woman). Yet others, like this 'preacher', seem to think it perfectly acceptable that he can tell this woman to think and feel the way he wants her to.

The transexual want the preacher to accept them as as a woman, so you are cool with the transexual telling the preacher how to think and feel but not the other way around?
Lets not beat around the bush, its a delusion man in drag who wants the world to agree with his delusional view point, when is it acceptable for the world to say no you are in the wrong?

[Wibbs]

The girl in my story just wanted to put an end to years of confusion and doubt.
By the way, the preacher is a pain. Difference these days leads to outright aggression instead of debate and acceptance of differing views.

Yeah the preacher is being a dick alright. As you say the default of late is to draw lines in the sand and both sides have a go. Loudest voice wins.

[Wibbs]

Your attraction to that person is not driven by the knowledge of them having a penis or not.

If one is a Straight man or a Gay woman finding out they do is about as big a switch off as one can get though.

My attitude is whatever floats your boat and good luck to you, so long as nobody is telling anyone else what should float theirs.

[Leroy42]

Are they wrong? You know that how? Do you accept that people are born with abnormalities? That some babies are born missing limbs, organs, unformed brains, deaf, dumb, unable to walk etc. That some people are born with both sets of genitalia? Yet it is not possible that the development of the foetus could not have produced the genitalia with different mentality?

Again, you seem very concerned that trans people give plenty of rights to others but don't seem to bothered about their rights. Show me an instance of a trans person claiming that all men must become women or vice versa. Show me where a trans person has claimed that 'normal' people are sick and wrong and should simply accept what they are told.

Does the preacher not accept other women as women? No, it that he doesn't believe that a person born male can ever be classed as a woman. She is trying to explain that that really isn't his decision to make. What basis he is making this determination?

This preacher, who if we are not beating around the bush believes in a magical sky fairly that randomly kills nearly everything on the planet, and is perfectly happy to condemn people to eternity in hell for the heinous crime of not telling him how awesome he is, is trying to force trans people to accept his view. She is only trying to get him to accept that there can be different views. She is happy to let him have his views, once they do not negatively impact her.

And this preacher is apparently in awe of the creator, the being that created this trans woman but has decided that he is unwilling to accept her and he doesn't like it?

That is the massive difference. He can keep his belief in sky fairies, in people rising form the dead, in world wide floods, in people living 900+ years, in talking snakes, but he cannot accept that the incredibly complex biological process of creating a person could go wrong?

[Leroy42]

Yeah the preacher is being a dick alright. As you say the default of late is to draw lines in the sand and both sides have a go. Loudest voice wins.

That all sounds fine, except that it isn't a fair fight. One side has religion, society on their side, the other are in the vast, vast minority.

Gays, trans, disabled, hell even women until relatively recently, have been treated as second class, shouted down and kept in the corner. Since the majority are, at best, ambivalent, to their plight and nobody wants to stick up for them they are forced to stick up for themselves.

I would wager that the vast majority of trans don't want to be involved in this type of event. They want o live their lives as others do.

It is akin to the gay marriage debate. We are all happy and proud that we voted a few years ago, but not that long ago being gay was actually a crime. Based on what? The bible mostly, bigotry and the 'eww' factor. People need to march, to stand out, to make their voices heard so that the majority could accept them and force through change.

[GubuOriginal]

It does seem the transexulals want everyone to accept their choice to transition and be tolerant of them , but they have zero respect and tolerance for anyone who does not endorse their delusion, you can see they are calling men who dont want to date trans women bigots, that would make me a bigot just because i have zero interest in feminine penis!
Its pure madness, they want acceptance for who they are, but dont want straight men to be accepted for who they are , that is not having any interest in transexuals, pure hypocrisy but then why expect anything else from delusional people.
I wish them well, but do your own thing and dont cause problems for those who are not interested in you or your choices in living your life.

You are confusing trans-people with trans-rights activists (TRA's). Not all TRA's are themselves trans, indeed most are not.

[GubuOriginal]

No, as you point out yourself, you are making the decision based on sexual attraction. But that is not the sole purpose, or indeed value, of a human. When you first see the person, you have no idea of their background, their history etc. If you are attracted to them, or not, that is perfectly reasonable to accept as that is a chemical response. We like what we like.

If you are attracted to them, and then they inform you they have a penis, again it is perfectly acceptable to not want to go any further.

Your attraction to that person is not driven by the knowledge of them having a penis or not. There are plenty of anecdotes of people hooking up with attractive women only to find out later!

But this isn't about sexual attraction. Whether you personally are attracted to a trans person or not is entirely up to you. What is not right is telling that person they they are not who they claim to be, simply because you don't accept it.

And that is what this 'preacher' and many others like him, are so fond or telling trans people. That they are wrong to think like they do, they are defective, they are sinners, etc etc. They have no right to do that.

So the point that trans people are similar because "they have zero respect and tolerance for anyone who does not endorse their delusion" isn't even remotely the same. They have zero tolerance for people that attack them, they are not attacking that person as a person, they are attacking their views on them as a person.

Don't accept, or because they simply are not? If a trans-man tells me they are male, me telling them they are not is not due to be 'not accepting' it. It is because they are female. One cannot change their sex.

Likewise with one proclaiming they are a woman if they are male. They are not. They are, at best, a trans-woman.

[GubuOriginal]

Are they wrong? You know that how? Do you accept that people are born with abnormalities? That some babies are born missing limbs, organs, unformed brains, deaf, dumb, unable to walk etc. That some people are born with both sets of genitalia? Yet it is not possible that the development of the foetus could not have produced the genitalia with different mentality?

Again, you seem very concerned that trans people give plenty of rights to others but don't seem to bothered about their rights. Show me an instance of a trans person claiming that all men must become women or vice versa. Show me where a trans person has claimed that 'normal' people are sick and wrong and should simply accept what they are told.

Does the preacher not accept other women as women? No, it that he doesn't believe that a person born male can ever be classed as a woman. She is trying to explain that that really isn't his decision to make. What basis he is making this determination?

This preacher, who if we are not beating around the bush believes in a magical sky fairly that randomly kills nearly everything on the planet, and is perfectly happy to condemn people to eternity in hell for the heinous crime of not telling him how awesome he is, is trying to force trans people to accept his view. She is only trying to get him to accept that there can be different views. She is happy to let him have his views, once they do not negatively impact her.

And this preacher is apparently in awe of the creator, the being that created this trans woman but has decided that he is unwilling to accept her and he doesn't like it?

That is the massive difference. He can keep his belief in sky fairies, in people rising form the dead, in world wide floods, in people living 900+ years, in talking snakes, but he cannot accept that the incredibly complex biological process of creating a person could go wrong?

Well they can't, can they. How can one born male, be classified as an 'adult human female'?

[Leroy42]

Don't accept, or because they simply are not? If a trans-man tells me they are male, me telling them they are not is not due to be 'not accepting' it. It is because they are female. One cannot change their sex.

Likewise with one proclaiming they are a woman if they are male. They are not. They are, at best, a trans-woman.

In your opinion. I totally get where you are coming from, and have no issue with it. It is when people like the preacher decide that they need to tell others and force on others they opinions and their beliefs. And beliefs based on what? Have they the read the science, have they consulted with psychologist to understand the mentality of trans people?

It all comes down to our notion of what defines a woman (or man). For you it seems that it is whatever they are classed at at birth. What do we do with Hermaphrodites? they are both. So is it down to whatever the doctor decides when they are born?

We like things to be easy. Man/woman. Easy. But science has expanded our knowledge and thus the waters to be muddied, along with the ability of these people to be heard more such that we know more about them.

In the past trans people were weird, shunned, were wrong, the devil got them, insane etc. They were different and thus ostracised. Now, we better understand what is going on. We better understand how although one may be born a boy physically, mentally you are a girl. And we have the ability to help these people through science.

Having all that it seems strange to continue to claim these people are wrong just because they don't fit into our world view.

[Leroy42]

Well they can't, can they. How can one born male, be classified as an 'adult human female'?

How? We know how. Medical procedures, drug therapy etc. You saying it can't happen doesn't change the fact.

[schmittel]

In your opinion. I totally get where you are coming from, and have no issue with it. It is when people like the preacher decide that they need to tell others and force on others they opinions and their beliefs. And beliefs based on what? Have they the read the science, have they consulted with psychologist to understand the mentality of trans people?

I find it a bit difficult to take religious people arguing with trans activists seriously.

One one side you've got somebody who is presumably a creationist, with beliefs based on faith.

On the other side you've got somebody whose beliefs are based on feelings.

Both are ignoring the evolutionary biology.

[Leroy42]

I think calling them feelings is a little disparaging. As if they are just a passing phase, that a drink and you'll feel better type of thing.

Trans people go through years of therapy. The whole system is designed to slow the process down, to avoid a passing phase. It is something they grow out of.

I am not sure why you are claiming both are ignoring evolutionary biology. They used that same argument against gay people, yet nature is full of gay animals. Is it because of reproduction maybe? But then we are back to our definition of man and woman. If it is solely about genitalia and reproduction then there are very many people that fall outside that narrow definition.

[Will I Amn’t]

I’ve no issues with people changing gender for the right reasons but there absolutely are people doing it for various reasons that I don’t agree with, but we are told they all have to be treated the same. I work with someone who is currently transitioning and take them at face value on it. It was the least shocking thing when they told me about it. On the flip side to that, you have the “wax my balls” person in Canada or certain male to female athletes or prisoners who I just wouldn’t go along with.

The preacher in the video went out looking for controversy. He’s the worst person in the clip for me but if his beliefs are formed by his religion and he’s a preacher does that not have to be accepted too? Acceptance these days is just conformity rebranded.

[GubuOriginal]

How? We know how. Medical procedures, drug therapy etc. You saying it can't happen doesn't change the fact.

No medical procedure can make you change sex. And it's this sort of comment that relegates one to the level of creationists and the like as, ultimately, it's all simply wishful thinking.

[GubuOriginal]

In your opinion. I totally get where you are coming from, and have no issue with it. It is when people like the preacher decide that they need to tell others and force on others they opinions and their beliefs. And beliefs based on what? Have they the read the science, have they consulted with psychologist to understand the mentality of trans people?
Humans don't class each-other at birth. We observe. The classification is ultimately done by mother nature. There are two sexes. A woman is of the female variety who is an adult. The latter is ofcourse debatable to some extent i.e. as to when one is actually adult, the former is a product of nature and cannot be changed. The discussion of intersex people is neither here nor there as it pertains to this discussion (there are no human hermaphrodites btw, intersex is the used term and such people are generally considered as a sub category of male or female). It is that easy. Science has enabled us to give clear definitions as to what pertains to male and female and thus man and women. The overwhelming majority of humans are not intersex and thus easily fall into one of the two 'classes' of sex, this includes trans-people. The waters have been muddied by activists, not scientists. We have yet developed a way to make one born physically a boy, physically a girl, in the sense that it would lead to a change in their sex. The definition of a woman has a clear, simple meaning, the majority of the World. If one wants to change that meaning then that is their prerogative. However, changing it so it doesn't a. appeal to stereotype - which would set us back years, or b. become self-referential - and as such not be a definition, is next to impossible.

[GubuOriginal]

In your opinion. I totally get where you are coming from, and have no issue with it. It is when people like the preacher decide that they need to tell others and force on others they opinions and their beliefs. And beliefs based on what? Have they the read the science, have they consulted with psychologist to understand the mentality of trans people?


It all comes down to our notion of what defines a woman (or man). For you it seems that it is whatever they are classed at at birth. What do we do with Hermaphrodites? they are both. So is it down to whatever the doctor decides when they are born?

Humans don't class each-other at birth. We observe. The classification is ultimately done by mother nature. There are two sexes. A woman is of the female variety who is an adult. The latter is ofcourse debatable to some extent i.e. as to when one is actually adult, the former is a product of nature and cannot be changed. The discussion of intersex people is neither here nor there as it pertains to this discussion (there are no human hermaphrodites btw, intersex is the used term and such people are generally considered as a sub category of male or female).

We like things to be easy. Man/woman. Easy. But science has expanded our knowledge and thus the waters to be muddied, along with the ability of these people to be heard more such that we know more about them.

It is that easy. Science has enabled us to give clear definitions as to what pertains to male and female and thus man and women. The overwhelming majority of humans are not intersex and thus easily fall into one of the two 'classes' of sex, this includes trans-people. The waters have been muddied by activists, not scientists.

In the past trans people were weird, shunned, were wrong, the devil got them, insane etc. They were different and thus ostracised. Now, we better understand what is going on. We better understand how although one may be born a boy physically, mentally you are a girl. And we have the ability to help these people through science.

Having all that it seems strange to continue to claim these people are wrong just because they don't fit into our world view.

We have not yet developed a way to make one born physically a boy, physically a girl, in the sense that it would lead to a change in their sex. The definition of a woman has a clear, simple meaning, the majority of the World. If one wants to change that meaning then that is their prerogative. However, changing it so it doesn't a. appeal to stereotype - which would set us back years, or b. become self-referential - and as such not be a definition, is next to impossible.

[schmittel]

I think calling them feelings is a little disparaging. As if they are just a passing phase, that a drink and you'll feel better type of thing.

Trans people go through years of therapy. The whole system is designed to slow the process down, to avoid a passing phase. It is something they grow out of.

I am not sure why you are claiming both are ignoring evolutionary biology. They used that same argument against gay people, yet nature is full of gay animals. Is it because of reproduction maybe? But then we are back to our definition of man and woman. If it is solely about genitalia and reproduction then there are very many people that fall outside that narrow definition.

Sure I get how saying feelings might be disparaging, but we cannot ignore evolution for fear being thought of as disparaging. I'd be quite happy to see the debate focus on how best to describe the feelings/emotions/mental state of transsexuals to avoid offending/disparaging them, but it seems crazy to say this trumps biology.

Yes it is about reproduction. Sure there are very many people over the history of evolution who have not fallen into the narrow definition of reproductive man or woman, and this very fact is a key tenet in the theory of natural selection.

Or to put it another away - humans have reached a privileged evolutionary stage in which we can argue whether or not a man can be a woman, precisely because of our history of instinctive collective recognition of the fundamental differences between and man and a woman.

Mad stuff altogether!

[jmayo]

Not wanting to date a person because of a preconceived bias is the very nature of being a bigot. You are placing a value on someone based on your preconceived bias. It is completely different that sexual attraction, that is chemical and people like what they like. But you may well like the look of a trans woman (or man) but then you will discard them simply because they started life as something else.
But it goes deeper than that. Not only are trans people not accepted as potential mates, they are rejected as being even the person they claim to be. It is one thing being told you are not attractive to someone, another thing entirely to be told that you are not even a man.

So I was always a bigot for not wanting to date someone with a dick or someone that had a dick.
Jaysus I never knew that.

Why do trans advocates always try hijack the terms man and woman to now mean trans man and trans woman, you then have a real man, one born and reared with a penis being called cis man or some shyte.
Likewise with women born with vaginas and ovaries now being termed cis women.

Ever hear the term majority rules.
And failing that why not accept nature and how we have lived for the last 5,0000 odd years.

I don't care if someone wants to have a sex change, wants to dress however they want, want to have sex with whoever they want but stop trying to hijack everything to suit your cause.

Imagine you asked a girl out. She rejects you, fine. But then she turns around and starts berating you for not being a real man because she heard you penis was small, or that you were crap in bed. But she does it in front of everyone. All the time.

Big difference and you know fooking well know it.

They are not calling for straight men to like a penis, any more than gay men are.

What problems are they causing? Are they forcing you to date them, forcing you to have sex with them? No, the only problem they are causing is that it makes you uncomfortable to talk about it.

You do know that some trans advocates have labelled straight men that won't date trans-women or lesbians that don't want to be with trans-women as being bigots and discriminatory ?