I think we’ll look back on this event as the one that really kicked things off, maybe the US is in a civil war already. Different media, legislatures, judges even all taking their stands on different sides, calling each other liars. The type of politics you’d expect to come out of a banana republic.
The timeline and facts are important so I’ll lay them out and anyone feel free to add to or criticise them.
Trump has been in communication with the fbi and national archives for a long time. He gave them most requested documents back in February and installed a lock on the room that the fbi broke in their raid, a lock they advised him to get. There is total accountability for all documents, even the ones that were torn up.
All previous presidents brought documents with them as part of their own stuff. Every former president has a store of them which the FBI have instructed them to take care of and secure.
The media were initially pressuring trump to release his copy of the warrant upon which the raid was based(the copy which was given to him). When he did that they attacked him instead for doxing the name of the officer on the warrant.
if there was anything important there they wouldn’t have waited 2 years.
These are the charges from the warrant as reported by france24
The search warrant, also unsealed Friday, said federal agents were investigating potential violations of three different federal laws, including one that governs gathering, transmitting or losing defense information under the Espionage Act.
The other statutes address the concealment, mutilation or removal of records and the destruction, alteration or falsification of records in federal investigations.”
There’s already a kangaroo court trying to prosecute him and anyone they can get their hands on (Jan 6 which has no adversarial structure- something you’d see only in a banana republic) and it’s not beyond the scope of possibility that this was a fishing expedition. Trump’s lawyers weren’t even allowed to observe the raid. You have to ask yourself why?
The warrant released gave no details of why the raid took place only that it was a decision taken based on a sworn affidavit(a sworn statement of fact by someone….?)The sworn affidavit has not been released (which was part of the warrant) and the justice department are now blocking its release. Operation crossfire hurricane that started the trump Russia hoax came from a similar source which has since proven to be a lie. Investigations into these initial warrants concluded that the intelligences services relied too heavily on the source of one man, Christopher steele. It took five years to find out his name and what lies he told and the same thing will happen here again. They say follow the money, in this case follow the affidavit. It will reveal all.
I am astounded at how this has effected the trump haters. It’s interesting to watch as it plays out, kind of like when you watch a horror movie, you know this is all building towards something bad. He was nearly irrelevant, off on his own social media network after they booted him from everything else and they still attack him needlessly and post his truth social messages all over their planks and their networks. These people are deranged. This whole thing has done much more to help him then what they were really trying to do, indict him so he can’t again run for president. Something you’d only see in a banana republic. This week they want you to think there’s some truth in him sneaking out nuclear codes to sell to someone, next week it’ll be some other shite. The same people that are in so interested in conspiracy theory nonsense peddle the biggest heap of it themselves.
In the news Wyoming voters are ecstatic and delighted that Liz Cheney has been deposed. There are great celebrations.
Nothing inherently wrong with POTUS 45 at all.
That’s not the story though, its not about him. It’s a about this ‘shadow campaign’ that is ‘fortifying’ the country. The story here is the attempt to ‘protect’ the next election.
That’s why the participants want the secret history of the 2020 election told, even though it sounds like a paranoid fever dream–a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information. They were not rigging the election; they were fortifying it.
Decent report here from RTE except that the passports that the fbi seized have been apologetically returned. It is not just a trump claim, considering the article is an hour old you’d think they would have got that right.
There will be a hearing tomorrow about unsealing the affidavit. Unless it is unsealed and has legitimate evidence people are going to be very angry.
Ncdjd2 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:29 pm
That reminded me of an old Frank Zappa interview I was watching
on youtube last night.
Very interesting. He was way off in some things (he didn’t think we’d ever stop watching t.v. ) but most he hits the nail on the head. I’m surprised he identified the elements from pro-wrestling, the fake wrestling, what now would be called Kayfabe, elements that trump brought to politics. What a prediction. He says at the end to watch fake wrestling because there’s a lot of politics in there. I’ve seen Eric Weinstein talk about this in depth. https://www.edge.org/response-detail/11783
The hearing going ahead today to unseal the affidavit is being argued by a group of media companies who initially all filed separate cases which the judge directed them to roll into one.
The media companies argued in a court filing that it is in the public interest to see “the government’s basis for the extraordinary step of seeking the warrant to search a former president’s home.”
Those arguing for the document’s release include The Associated Press, broadcast networks ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN, as well as newspaper companies The New York Times, The Washington Post, Dow Jones & Company, E.W. Scripps Company and McClatchy.
The media companies argue the affidavit's release would help the public determine if the Justice Department had legitimate reasons for the search or if it was part of a Biden administration vendetta against Trump, as the former president and his backers contend.
Yesterday New York post. “ A now-public May 10 letter to Team Trump from acting National Archivist Debra Steidel Wall notes that the president’s counsel had told her: “President Biden defers to my determination” on respecting Trump’s claims of executive privilege in retaining various documents — and that she had “decided not to honor” those claims.”
The affidavit was released, although heavily redacted doesn’t reveal anything new or sinister. Trump returned 14 boxes of records and apparently they suspected he may have more or may have been storing them incorrectly. Fox’s best journalist Brett Baeir in a clip here to summarise.
Del.Monte wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:51 pm
Nothing objectionable, it was just pointless "Lunchtime Live" type stuff - space filling - nothing about nothing and we are no wiser after the piece.
He’s saying there was no serious and proper reason given in the affidavit released that would warrant such a raid. Maybe it’s contained in the redacted portion but we’re back to square one, of wanting and needing to know.
Maybe there’s something you’ve seen that makes you ok with this political witch-hunt, but I haven’t seen it.
knownunknown wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:56 pm
The hearing going ahead today to unseal the affidavit is being argued by a group of media companies who initially all filed separate cases which the judge directed them to roll into one.
The media companies argued in a court filing that it is in the public interest to see “the government’s basis for the extraordinary step of seeking the warrant to search a former president’s home.”
Those arguing for the document’s release include The Associated Press, broadcast networks ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN, as well as newspaper companies The New York Times, The Washington Post, Dow Jones & Company, E.W. Scripps Company and McClatchy.
The media companies argue the affidavit's release would help the public determine if the Justice Department had legitimate reasons for the search or if it was part of a Biden administration vendetta against Trump, as the former president and his backers contend.
Have not really been following this so forgive me if this a lazy or stupid question, but seeing these guys eg ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN were keen on the release of the affidavit struck me as odd, as normally they would not question the legitimacy of any attack on trump.
schmittel wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:03 pm
Have not really been following this so forgive me if this a lazy or stupid question, but seeing these guys eg ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN were keen on the release of the affidavit struck me as odd, as normally they would not question the legitimacy of any attack on trump.
What’s different this time?
Just a guess but the last time something like this happened those media outlets bought the story hook, line and sinker based on the testimony of someone who we now know was lying, the Steele dossier. They rolled with the russian collusion story and the pee pee tape story and the letter from 50 general, hunter’s laptop etc without questioning the source and were made to look very stupid.
The ratings of those news outlets are in the toilet for a reason. CNN is under new stewardship now and have made a commitment to unbiased news and have already made a number of steps in that direction.
I saw on msnbc their legal expert recommended that the affidavit shouldn’t be released. They are nothing but a mouthpiece for the Biden government.
This was an interesting observation pointed out by thehill.
“ Many of us had stated that the critical period of interest was between June 8 and after the raid on August 8. The June date involved a demand for greater security on the storage room at Mar-a-Lago, with which the Trump team complied. The redacted affidavit only added one day of new information in noting that on June 9, Trump’s counsel acknowledged the receipt of their letter. Then the black-out followed. That information could explain why a raid was needed, as opposed to a second subpoena or a more tailored warrant.”
Some accountability, Igor Danchenko was a paid fbi informant. Fbi paid for Russian disinformation to frame Trump.
“ In March 2017, the FBI signed the defendant up as a paid confidential human source of the FBI,” the special counsel revealed in the motion. It was not until October 2020 that “the FBI terminated its source relationship with” Danchenko.”
Initially I was saying to myself Trump was guilty as sin as he's so arrogant that he thought the rules didn't apply and could do what he wants. He wanted to boast of the secrets he's got to boost his ego.
Now I've multiple things going through the head. Maybe some of Trump's lackeys were smart enough to see a future issue and took steps to secure them. Basically, walk a tightrope between Trump's daftness and the rules for record retention. Another side is saying that the folk in the FBI & Justice Dept knew the potential blowback if they went after Trump so they had to make sure of a strong case before kicking the hornets nest. Then, another thought is that now Putin's bots and Putin's lackeys are trying to run "interference" and put doubt in the minds of us ordinary people (as they have done successfully in the past).
I'm not sure where to land but I imagine that it's a mixture of all scenarios. I'm leaning towards a mix of his ego and Putin bots interference.
Hairy-Joe wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:08 pm
I'm torn on this whole thing.
Initially I was saying to myself Trump was guilty as sin as he's so arrogant that he thought the rules didn't apply and could do what he wants. He wanted to boast of the secrets he's got to boost his ego.
Now I've multiple things going through the head. Maybe some of Trump's lackeys were smart enough to see a future issue and took steps to secure them. Basically, walk a tightrope between Trump's daftness and the rules for record retention. Another side is saying that the folk in the FBI & Justice Dept knew the potential blowback if they went after Trump so they had to make sure of a strong case before kicking the hornets nest. Then, another thought is that now Putin's bots and Putin's lackeys are trying to run "interference" and put doubt in the minds of us ordinary people (as they have done successfully in the past).
I'm not sure where to land but I imagine that it's a mixture of all scenarios. I'm leaning towards a mix of his ego and Putin bots interference.
Well the whole Russia trump collusion thing is a complete hoax perpetrated by the DNC. This is now a known fact based on the mueller investigation and the Durham probe. He tried to get europe to stop buying Russian gas in 2018. Trump’s presidency is the only one in 20 years that didn’t see Putin invade another country during. (Georgia, Crimea, ukraine)
The affidavit to do with this raid outlines that the justice department, trumps team and NARA(national archive) were all in regular correspondence and even got a lot of documents back in February. The last part before the raid showed that they asked trump to put a lock on the storage of all these files. Then there is a redacted part, then the raid. We need to know what happened in that redacted part shortly before the raid that kicked this whole thing into another gear. Let’s hope it’s not as politically motivated as it appears for the sake of a civil war in the country.
) but most he hits the nail on the head. I’m surprised he identified the elements from pro-wrestling, the fake wrestling, what now would be called Kayfabe, elements that trump brought to politics. What a prediction. 
He says at the end to watch fake wrestling because there’s a lot of politics in there. I’ve seen Eric Weinstein talk about this in depth. 
