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Nursing Home Care Refunds

The burning issues of the day
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schmittel
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Nursing Home Care Refunds

#1

Post by schmittel »

Starting a dedicated thread as I reckon this story is not going away anytime soon.

There is a piece in today's IT confirming both Simon Harris and Helen McEntee signed off on the strategy to fight the claims in 2017: Legal strategy on nursing home claims continued after Harris-McEntee ‘review’
In an email sent on May 26th, 2017, a department official said the then Minister for Health Simon Harris and Minister of State for Older Persons Helen McEntee “confirmed” the strategy.

“There is no change in the department’s policy position – informed by legal advices to date from the Office of the Attorney General and confirmed at the recent high-level strategy review on long-stay litigation with the Attorney General and Ministers Harris and McEntee – that discovery should be avoided in all long-stay cases, including the Conroy case,” the department official said.
I think any current minister who has dirty hands on this has a problem, difficult to fob it off on previous governments if it has been reviewed and confirmed.

Of the current cabinet, those with dirty hands are likely to be:

Leo Varadkar
Micheál Martin
Stephen Donnelly
Simon Harris
Helen McEntee
Hildegarde Naughton

That's quite a line up.

If SF choose this issue to bring down the government and force an election, I think they might well succeed.
PogMoThoin22
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#2

Post by PogMoThoin22 »

schmittel wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:55 am If SF choose this issue to bring down the government and force an election, I think they might well succeed.
Never interrupt your enemy while they are making a mistake 😂
How many scandals is that in January?
kadman
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#3

Post by kadman »

Makes absolutely no difference what shenanigans politicians get up to, they dont get fired like you and i do. They are immune to prosecution for any indiscretion. They just need to smile, and say sorry, and get a last minute reprieve.
I think SF would succeed anyway.. Government has shot themselves in the foot too many times now.
schmittel
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#4

Post by schmittel »

Exactly, they will just brazen this out and take their punishment at next election, and SF most likely to be the beneficiaries.

But if SF are impatient, they need to force the issue and put this to a vote of no confidence. I reckon they'd win it.
knownunknown
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#5

Post by knownunknown »

A learning moment... 😂
Setanta
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:03 pm

Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#6

Post by Setanta »

I think it's only tip of iceberg tbh,from prisoners slopping out,to failures of compliance around MICA/Celtic tiger builds,several industries playing loose & fast with regulations,kids hospital.....large amounts of so called wealth/success here, is built on scams and misery of others and willingness to bully citizens out of their dues.....cervical check would never been found out,only Vicky phelan refused to sign non-disclosure




Not a single party isn't implicated in it,from the soc dem leaders,to labour complaining on this,while previously being party to it is taking people for saps....present situation is just decades of shit standards of public representation coming home to roost
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
marhay70
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#7

Post by marhay70 »

Politicians are one thing, they are a fleeting problem, where the knife really needs to be wielded is in the Civil Service. Far too many incompetents and jobsworths drawing big salaries for little effort. If competence was made a condition of advancement in the CS, most of the Department heads would still be delivering mail.
Just sit back and evaluate the influence senior Civil Servants have on the day to day running of the State and you'll see just how insignificant most politicians are. Will SF be willing to tackle this? I doubt it
BrianD3
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#8

Post by BrianD3 »

Whistleblowing is going to become a big thing in coming years IMO - a snowball effect. The likes of Maurice McCabe and Shane Corr show what can be done and this will have encouraged others. Also, the stories broken by The Ditch (Troy, English, ABP etc.) will have come from tipoffs from insiders.

in addition, the public service has recruited a lot of people, many into relatively senior positions, from the private sector in recent years. They won't have the same baggage and apathy that the public service lifers have.
marhay70
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#9

Post by marhay70 »

BrianD3 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:02 pm Whistleblowing is going to become a big thing in coming years IMO - a snowball effect. The likes of Maurice McCabe and Shane Corr show what can be done and this will have encouraged others. Also, the stories broken by The Ditch (Troy, English, ABP etc.) will have come from tipoffs from insiders.

in addition, the public service has recruited a lot of people, many into relatively senior positions, from the private sector in recent years. They won't have the same baggage and apathy that the public service lifers have.

Can be a lucrative career move obviously.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022 ... o-nothing/

Just shows how much scope his superiors have to manipulate things when a comparatively high earner can be allowed to sit in a corner all day on full pay. Who was doing the job he was brought in to do and how were they paid?
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Del.Monte
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#10

Post by Del.Monte »

In fairness, it is CIE/Irish Rail and sitting in a corner with nothing to do all day except reader the paper would be par for the course at many levels throughout the company. Three, well paid, qualified signalmen employed in my local station with nothing to do all day except polish the automatic ticket vending machine and keeping an eye out for roving managers travelling around the country by car. This situation has been ongoing since all signalling on the route became controlled from Dublin (Connolly) in 2008!!
'no more blah blah blah'
marhay70
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#11

Post by marhay70 »

Del.Monte wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:24 pm In fairness, it is CIE/Irish Rail and sitting in a corner with nothing to do all day except reader the paper would be par for the course at many levels throughout the company. Three, well paid, qualified signalmen employed in my local station with nothing to do all day except polish the automatic ticket vending machine and keeping an eye out for roving managers travelling around the country by car. This situation has been ongoing since all signalling on the route became controlled from Dublin (Connolly) in 2008!!


I thought that only happened in the County Councils. :)
kadman
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#12

Post by kadman »

Happens in the Dail on a daily basis. :D ;)
Jack The Stripper
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#13

Post by Jack The Stripper »

kadman wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:43 pm Happens in the Dail on a daily basis. :D ;)
The dail is only a puppet government for the wef.
Setanta
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#14

Post by Setanta »

I know it's not exactly related to the nursing home scandalous behaviour

But what exactly have the government been upto in the department of health....seems more and more,they been using it's as political fiefdom,rather than trying to improve it,for benefit of population

https://extra.ie/2023/02/05/news/irish- ... ecret-plan
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
PogMoThoin22
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#15

Post by PogMoThoin22 »

Why do FG stick with Leo, he does nothing but take them backwards. A proven liar
Jack The Stripper
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#16

Post by Jack The Stripper »

PogMoThoin22 wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:11 am Why do FG stick with Leo, he does nothing but take them backwards. A proven liar
They are all cut from the same cloth.
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#17

Post by Hairy-Joe »

I was talking to the parents about the nursing home my grandmother was in. Yes it was a private nursing home and she had a medical card. In about 10 minutes, we had quite a few problems if we wanted to prove how much we paid, nevermind take a legal case.

First, we have no bank account details or statements for the grandmother. We also have no bank statements going back that far for the father to show how much he paid.

Second is that the nursing home probably has no records. GDPR means that if the patient has died, records can't be held for ever. Our issue is the nursing home is shut so zero hope there. I imagine there's plenty of records gone due to changes, mergers, buyouts etc.

Third is tax. There was a tax break for paying for a private nursing home for a relative back then. So, if the fees are refunded, does the father then have to return the tax break (and knowing revenue, they'll slap penalties on top also)

Fourth is statute of limitations. It's been a lot more then 7 years ago all this happened.

Fifth is wills and showing who paid, thus who gets the refund. In our case, it's easy as the father is an only child but what happens if multiple siblings paid for the nursing home and had a falling out over a will or something?

Sixth is legal fees. There's going to be so much digging for documentation, the legal fees will be massive. Now imagine a complication of fighting siblings and picture the legal fees. How much will be left after the payout.

Seventh is the dangerous legal precedent this sets. All the private health insurance claims for the past 50 years can now be claimed as they should have been covered under this precedent. The country would be broke in a week.

We concluded that we can't prove it, if we did manage to prove it, it's so long ago it's too late to start and revenue would get their cut due to the tax allowance being pulled.
Setanta
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Re: Nursing Home Care Refunds

#18

Post by Setanta »




Think this won't be as easy buried as they hope
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
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