Israel and Palestine

[PureIsle]

Interesting results of survey

[Setanta]

Interesting results of survey

Sanctions don't work,ask the clowns on planks still waiting for Russia to pack up it's tent over Sanctions in Ukraine


Them refugees need guns and modern weaponry to defend themselves,not some leftist sanction,virtue signalling nonsense.

[PureIsle]

If this is anywhere close to being true ...

[PureIsle]

If true this would appear to be Israeli take-over of the West Bank without and conflict.
I doubt the PLA would do much to dissuade Israel.

The only outcome I see is either the West Bank goes down in a whimper or there is a regional widespread war.

[PureIsle]

I will say this much for Gvir, he is consistant!

He's a lot of other things too ...

[Setanta]

Isreal will likely celebrate American independence day,while they are distracted,by committing another massacre and outrage against a captive civilian population who can't escape them


And never face a single sanction or those civilians ever get methods of self defense either....the world is completely fucked,de Valera was right,we need to be more self sufficient away from these people

[marhay70]

Isreal will likely celebrate American independence day,while they are distracted,by committing another massacre and outrage against a captive civilian population who can't escape them


And never face a single sanction or those civilians ever get methods of self defense either....the world is completely fucked,de Valera was right,we need to be more self sufficient away from these people

We tried the self-sufficiency bit for a long time from the 1920s to the 1950s it didn't work then and it won't work now. Ireland will only survive by being what it is, a tax haven for multi nationals. Whilst we continue to give them what they want, they will continue to operate within our shores and long may that be. Many of our neighbours and supposed allies would like to see an end put to that for their own ends. People need to concentrate their concerns on what the future holds for their own country.

[Setanta]

We tried the self-sufficiency bit for a long time from the 1920s to the 1950s it didn't work then and it won't work now. Ireland will only survive by being what it is, a tax haven for multi nationals. Whilst we continue to give them what they want, they will continue to operate within our shores and long may that be. Many of our neighbours and supposed allies would like to see an end put to that for their own ends. People need to concentrate their concerns on what the future holds for their own country.

Ireland has no say in the world,these people are evil who look on at an ongoing genocide and do nothing, because they think it'll make them richer,while sending weapons to assist it

Ethically they are no different to the kinihan cartel,and it's time to disentangle from Europe,all it's positives are a smokescreen and bollocks....great for human rights,except if it's a genocide,great for environmental concern and stopping turf cutting,but we can look up and see more planes than ever in the sky.....it's really time to cut back contacts and work towards self sufficiency as a country,

[marhay70]

Ireland has no say in the world,these people are evil who look on at an ongoing genocide and do nothing, because they think it'll make them richer,while sending weapons to assist it

Ethically they are no different to the kinihan cartel,and it's time to disentangle from Europe,all it's positives are a smokescreen and bollocks....great for human rights,except if it's a genocide,great for environmental concern and stopping turf cutting,but we can look up and see more planes than ever in the sky.....it's really time to cut back contacts and work towards self sufficiency as a country,

Self sufficient in what? De Valera was an admirer of the Soviet Union and sought to emulate them but what he failed to take into account was the vast resources available to the Soviet Union in the form of fossil fuels, forests, rivers and vast tracts of the best farming land in Europe, if not the world. It also had a huge population to exploit these resources. Of course there was also a ready export market for whichever of these resources it chose.
What resources does Ireland have? Granted we could probably feed ourselves, but how exactly would we earn foreign currency to buy those things we need to run even the agricultural sector? Do we go back to intensive labour and horses, dancing at the crossroads, sharpening scythes and whittling to while away the long winter?

[Setanta]

Self sufficient in what? De Valera was an admirer of the Soviet Union and sought to emulate them but what he failed to take into account was the vast resources available to the Soviet Union in the form of fossil fuels, forests, rivers and vast tracts of the best farming land in Europe, if not the world. It also had a huge population to exploit these resources. Of course there was also a ready export market for whichever of these resources it chose.
What resources does Ireland have? Granted we could probably feed ourselves, but how exactly would we earn foreign currency to buy those things we need to run even the agricultural sector? Do we go back to intensive labour and horses, dancing at the crossroads, sharpening scythes and whittling to while away the long winter?

We move away from leaning into Europe anyway....we decrease our reliance on forgien companies (corner market in generic drugs for one)and tax breaks to paper up a disastrous domestic economy


There's nothing for Ireland in Europe,and we've no say anyway....it's better to have control of our own destiny than be tied to people who look on at genocides and all those dead children (seriously how is dropping tons of explosives onto orpans sheltering in a school not even newsworthy anymore?)..... we're strong enough to go alone than be forever tied to a continent that invented concentration camps....we wouldnt have the debacle of refugees in tents,spirraling homelessness,if only for europe

It's time to disentangle and approach Europe with a similar approach to Hungary and not roll over for them anymore

[marhay70]

We move away from leaning into Europe anyway....we decrease our reliance on forgien companies (corner market in generic drugs for one)and tax breaks to paper up a disastrous domestic economy


There's nothing for Ireland in Europe,and we've no say anyway....it's better to have control of our own destiny than be tied to people who look on at genocides and all those dead children (seriously how is dropping tons of explosives onto orpans sheltering in a school not even newsworthy anymore?)..... we're strong enough to go alone than be forever tied to a continent that invented concentration camps....we wouldnt have the debacle of refugees in tents,spirraling homelessness,if only for europe

It's time to disentangle and approach Europe with a similar approach to Hungary and not roll over for them anymore

Wrapping the green flag around us and exercising Dev style isolationism is not going to put money in people's pockets, I've explained why it's not a good idea, now you explain why it is. How exactly would Ireland be self-sufficient?

[Setanta]

Wrapping the green flag around us and exercising Dev style isolationism is not going to put money in people's pockets, I've explained why it's not a good idea, now you explain why it is. How exactly would Ireland be self-sufficient?

Number one,I've said to be more self sufficient and move away from reliance upon Europe....it's a terrible idea,a trading block which can ban turf cutting on carbon emissions and simultaneously arm a genocide and no word on emissions released with these bombs (no mind many MEPs who voted to ban turf cutting cheering on Ukraine blowing up oil refineries/storage facilities)


Ireland has no say in Europe,but is expected to do Europe's bidding all the time,while handing over control to Europe on its borders with this migration pact......it's time for someone to call stop and begin disentangling from Europe,it cons have begun to outweigh it's positives,we need not withdraw,but it's time to send disrupters and intelligent people there to shake things up and stand up for commonsense,which the silent majority want

[marhay70]

Number one,I've said to be more self sufficient and move away from reliance upon Europe....it's a terrible idea,a trading block which can ban turf cutting on carbon emissions and simultaneously arm a genocide and no word on emissions released with these bombs (no mind many MEPs who voted to ban turf cutting cheering on Ukraine blowing up oil refineries/storage facilities)


Ireland has no say in Europe,but is expected to do Europe's bidding all the time,while handing over control to Europe on its borders with this migration pact......it's time for someone to call stop and begin disentangling from Europe,it cons have begun to outweigh it's positives,we need not withdraw,but it's time to send disrupters and intelligent people there to shake things up and stand up for commonsense,which the silent majority want

I've read what you've had to say, I'm still waiting for you to explain how it's to be done and with what.

[Setanta]

I've read what you've had to say, I'm still waiting for you to explain how it's to be done and with what.

Begin to disentangle from Europe....boycott it's meetings and conferences,elect politicians to skate things up in it's parliament,build connections and resources outside of it to expand upon self sufficiency and reduce reliance on Europe to make decisions for the country



A trading block that supports and arms genocide is heading for dissolution anyway....we may prepare for inevitable of it,not be sucked into a war and forced conscription to assit the next genocide it wishes to support

[marhay70]

Begin to disentangle from Europe....boycott it's meetings and conferences,elect politicians to skate things up in it's parliament,build connections and resources outside of it to expand upon self sufficiency and reduce reliance on Europe to make decisions for the country



A trading block that supports and arms genocide is heading for dissolution anyway....we may prepare for inevitable of it,not be sucked into a war and forced conscription to assit the next genocide it wishes to support

From your persistent refusal to answer the question posed, the only conclusion I can come to is that you don't have an answer.
Disentangle ourselves from Europe and do what, has Brexit passed you by? The UK is not exactly forging ahead and they have a much larger economy built on a much sounder basis than we have.
Build what markets and with whom? The only assets we have are agriculture and our people, exactly what we had in 1922 and the only path we can travel is the one we travelled then.
I don't intend to concern myself with what happens in other parts of the world, Ireland impoverishing herself is not going to make one iota of difference to what happens in Palestine or Ukraine or Myanmar or any other conflict. Those conflicts will come to an end in the way that all conflicts do.

[Setanta]

don't intend to concern myself with what happens in other parts of the world, Ireland impoverishing herself is not going to make one iota of difference to what happens in Palestine or Ukraine or Myanmar or any other conflict. Those conflicts will come to an end in the way that all conflicts do.

The direction Europe is headed with it's pesco and European army,these future conflicts will involve Ireland and people here being conscripted to assist genocides for likes of Von Der Lyon ....this recent migration pact was another step in dismantling our independence,it's time to take back control and disentangle before they get us all killed.....not much use in prosperity when half the country been killed as cannon fodder at behest of Brussels imo

[marhay70]

The direction Europe is headed with it's pesco and European army,these future conflicts will involve Ireland and people here being conscripted to assist genocides for likes of Von Der Lyon ....this recent migration pact was another step in dismantling our independence,it's time to take back control and disentangle before they get us all killed.....not much use in prosperity when half the country been killed as cannon fodder at behest of Brussels imo

That's a rather dramatic and simplistic view. If conventional warfare is to break out in Europe, the most likely enemy is Russia. What if Putin decides, as most Generals do, to strike Europe at its weakest point, do you think he'll stop and think "Oh no, I can't go there, they are not members of the EU"?
It would be a very attractive prospect for Putin to have a bridgehead in Ireland and then, instead of the conflict taking place in Warsaw or Krackow or Berlin, it would be taking place in Dublin, Cork and Limerick. How many of the population do you think that might kill?
We know Russian warships and submarines are routinely active off our coast, we know that lines of communication are most vulnerable there, where better for Putin to establish a bridgehead?

[Setanta]

That's a rather dramatic and simplistic view. If conventional warfare is to break out in Europe, the most likely enemy is Russia. What if Putin decides, as most Generals do, to strike Europe at its weakest point, do you think he'll stop and think "Oh no, I can't go there, they are not members of the EU"?
It would be a very attractive prospect for Putin to have a bridgehead in Ireland and then, instead of the conflict taking place in Warsaw or Krackow or Berlin, it would be taking place in Dublin, Cork and Limerick. How many of the population do you think that might kill?
We know Russian warships and submarines are routinely active off our coast, we know that lines of communication are most vulnerable there, where better for Putin to establish a bridgehead?

Lad,Putin can't even take a few provinces in east Ukraine without getting bogged down,the bloke is headed for 80 and not going to be about in a few years


We're as likely, argueably moreso,to be invaded by the yanks as Putin,an insular America with trump type head of state would be much more of risk to Ireland (and lines of communication/gas pipelines) than Russia....no mind a British government using paramilitaries to launch terrorist attacks against a potential sinn Fein/nationalist government in future



I certainly have no interest in seeing any Irish person die for the EU,a free trading block isn't worth losing sleep over,no mind Irish lives

[marhay70]

Lad,Putin can't even take a few provinces in east Ukraine without getting bogged down,the bloke is headed for 80 and not going to be about in a few years


We're as likely, argueably moreso,to be invaded by the yanks as Putin,an insular America with trump type head of state would be much more of risk to Ireland (and lines of communication/gas pipelines) than Russia....no mind a British government using paramilitaries to launch terrorist attacks against a potential sinn Fein/nationalist government in future



I certainly have no interest in seeing any Irish person die for the EU,a free trading block isn't worth losing sleep over,no mind Irish lives

Why is Putin bogged down in Ukraine?

The only Irish people who have lost their lives in conflict in the last twenty years has been at the hands of those in the Middle East you love to defend.

[Setanta]

Why is Putin bogged down in Ukraine?

The only Irish people who have lost their lives in conflict in the last twenty years has been at the hands of those in the Middle East you love to defend.

Putin is bogged down, because Ukraine is nearly as willing to lose troops as they are,and they are fighting a trench warfare about 100 years after last extended trench warfare



And again,I haven't defended middle east,there was been few Irish people killed in the Ukraine (aswell as one in south America in the recent years) aswell

[marhay70]

Putin is bogged down, because Ukraine is nearly as willing to lose troops as they are,and they are fighting a trench warfare about 100 years after last extended trench warfare



And again,I haven't defended middle east,there was been few Irish people killed in the Ukraine (aswell as one in south America in the recent years) aswell

You think that's why Putin is bogged down? You don't think the arms ammunition and money provided by the EU and the US has any bearing on it?Anybody from Ireland who was killed in Ukraine or elsewhere was not in an Irish uniform and not representing this country, and you have continually defended Hamas and anybody else who is opposing Israel.

[Setanta]

You think that's why Putin is bogged down? You don't think the arms ammunition and money provided by the EU and the US has any bearing on it?Anybody from Ireland who was killed in Ukraine or elsewhere was not in an Irish uniform and not representing this country, and you have continually defended Hamas and anybody else who is opposing Israel.

Yes,and that is all they've given the Ukraine....Ukraine has fought Russia basically alone


Just so we're clear, Israel is also in the middle east,and have killed multiple Irish troops in the UN (havnt defended hamas,I've said anyone oppressed and occupied is well within in their rights to take up arms to defend themselves and change their situation,be that in Bilbao,Newry or rafah)

The fact hamas is the only viable opposition,and organisation willing to take up arms,is entirely the fault of the yanks for not supporting more moderate rebels or bringing Israel to heel for decades of slaughter, apartheid and oppression against a minority....the shinners fav group,the plo,has been neutured and cannot stop annexation or illegal settlements in west bank,while its taken a genocide to clear ground in gaza for same to happen....in this reality,who is doing most to defend innocent people there and their property?

[marhay70]

Yes,and that is all they've given the Ukraine....Ukraine has fought Russia basically alone


Just so we're clear, Israel is also in the middle east,and have killed multiple Irish troops in the UN (havnt defended hamas,I've said anyone oppressed and occupied is well within in their rights to take up arms to defend themselves and change their situation,be that in Bilbao,Newry or rafah)

The fact hamas is the only viable opposition,and organisation willing to take up arms,is entirely the fault of the yanks for not supporting more moderate rebels or bringing Israel to heel for decades of slaughter, apartheid and oppression against a minority....the shinners fav group,the plo,has been neutured and cannot stop annexation or illegal settlements in west bank,while its taken a genocide to clear ground in gaza for same to happen....in this reality,who is doing most to defend innocent people there and their property?

These are not knives and tomahawks the EU are supplying, these are missiles mortars, cannon etc designed for distance fighting. Ukrainan troops, in theory, don't have to go within miles of the enemy. You know, or if you don't you should by now, the reason Ukraine is fighting alone.


You'll have to refresh my memory of the multitudes of Irish troops killed by Israel.

Who is the reason Israel is there in the first place?

[Setanta]

These are not knives and tomahawks the EU are supplying, these are missiles mortars, cannon etc designed for distance fighting. Ukrainan troops, in theory, don't have to go within miles of the enemy. You know, or if you don't you should by now, the reason Ukraine is fighting alone.


You'll have to refresh my memory of the multitudes of Irish troops killed by Israel.

Who is the reason Israel is there in the first place?

I don't see the relevance of the weapons EU supplied,and Ireland's requirement to be entangled in it,we need to take back control of our country and have less to do with them and decouple into a position of self sufficiency or close as reasonable possible


Just 3 of incidents
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland ... -1.3332492
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/fur ... 45940.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_Tiri_incident

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41029148.html

[knownunknown]

The fact hamas is the only viable opposition,and organisation willing to take up arms,is entirely the fault of the yanks for not supporting more moderate rebels or bringing Israel to heel for decades of slaughter, apartheid and oppression against a minority....the shinners fav group,the plo,has been neutured and cannot stop annexation or illegal settlements in west bank,while its taken a genocide to clear ground in gaza for same to happen....in this reality,who is doing most to defend innocent people there and their property?

The PLO were thrown off buildings by Hamas following their last elections. The moderates have been literally slaughtered by the extremists. All the annexations happened after another country declared war on Israel first or built up troops along the borders. Israel never declared war on anyone. This whole thing started after Israel was invaded and 1,200 people murdered in cold blood, majority civilians and hundreds taken hostage, dozens of children among them.

This is not a fight for liberation, hamas are not freedom fighters. It’s a millennia old religious dispute led by extremist terrorists intent on destroying Jews, it’s literally in their charter that they publish and endorse.

Take Jerusalem for example, they they lay complete claim to it. When in history do they harp back to as justification for this? I bet I can go back further and find Jews there. When Israel was in control all religions were allowed access, when Jordan had it (Muslim brotherhood) they housed their animals there in the Jewish and Christian parts to purposefully cause anger. To this day about 20% of the population of Israel are “Palestinians” while 0% of Palestine is inhabited by Israelis.

One culture (israel) allows other cultures to not only survive but flourish, while the other uses violence to ensure theirs is the only one allowed.