Israel and Palestine

[Norman Breaks]

You’ve brought up the ICJ more than anyone in this thread and they have called the hostage taking by hamas a war crime. Picking and choosing when to be offended by war crimes is not a good look.

The IOF has been arresting (aka abducting) Palestinians for decades and continues to do so. Picking and choosing which hostages to be offended by is not a good look.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... e%20(DCIP).

[knownunknown]

The IOF has been arresting (aka abducting) Palestinians for decades and continues to do so. Picking and choosing which hostages to be offended by is not a good look.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... e%20(DCIP).

One is a war crime and the other is arresting 12-17 year old boys for throwing rocks and petrol bombs. No comparison. Prisoners, not hostages.

[Norman Breaks]

One is a war crime and the other is arresting 12-17 year old boys for throwing rocks and petrol bombs. No comparison. Prisoners, not hostages.

Except it's not just 12 to 17 yr olds. And not that that is okay either.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240 ... to-israel/

[Norman Breaks]

They lied and tried to cover up the food aid massacre, but sure we knew that.

[PureIsle]

How anyone, with a modicum of moral sense, could not loudly call out Israel for its deliberate killing of civilians that they (Israel) are deliberately starving, is quite beyond my comprehension.

It appears the majority of Western Governments agrees with, and even supports, this mass murder.
It makes me sick to realise how bad those governments really are.

As it appears Israel has no intention of stopping this genocide, I can only wish some country with sufficient military power aids the Palestinians ...... a vain wish I know but that is all that is left to those of us helplessly witnessing these crimes.

I have no recollection of ever hating in my life to date, but I know I am rapidly approaching that view of the Zionists in Israel, and all those who support them.

[6234567]

One thing I don't get is - how endlessly posting to one's own echo chamber actually achieving anything.
It's not raising awareness as its such a topical subject; and it's definitely not done in a manner that invites open discourse.

[knownunknown]

One thing I don't get is - how endlessly posting to one's own echo chamber actually achieving anything.
It's not raising awareness as its such a topical subject; and it's definitely not done in a manner that invites open discourse.

This is how they speak, the type of media pumping out this Hamas propaganda… genocide this, your Jewish friends that. When you ask them would you release the hostages taken in order to achieve a ceasefire they all say no and list their demands first. These people have forgotten about western principles, principles embraced by Israel and shat on by hamas.

[PureIsle]

Western principles as displayed by the USA ....

Arm and fund Israel with no conditions or red lines.
Veto UN resolutions calling for a ceasefire.
Reject the ICJ and its findings.
Cut UNRWA funding and cause others to follow suit.
Ignore international law.

Then claim 'are we not great humanitarians' because we put on a show of dropping miniscule amounts of aid from aircraft.

Just force Israel to unlock the border for all those humanitarian aid trucks seeking entry to all of Gaza!
Naw, obviously that would not be in line with Western principles.

[knownunknown]

Canada, Australia, Britain, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Finland, Estonia, Japan, Austria and Romania joined Washington as of January in cutting off funding for the UNRWA. The UN immediately fired 9 of the employees Israel says were involved in the oct 7 attacks.

Do you think these countries would cut off funding to aid agencies without seeing substantial evidence of their involvement in terrorism?
I certainly don’t. These are some of the most compassionate countries in the world that help in all sorts of ways whenever a humanitarian crisis hits.

There is more than one border and the only country that gets blamed is Israel.

Hamas continues to reject the only order the court at the ICJ made, to release the hostages held by Hamas immediately and unconditionally. That is all the court has said.

[PureIsle]

Canada, Australia, Britain, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Finland, Estonia, Japan, Austria and Romania joined Washington as of January in cutting off funding for the UNRWA. The UN immediately fired 9 of the employees Israel says were involved in the oct 7 attacks.

Do you think these countries would cut off funding to aid agencies without seeing substantial evidence of their involvement in terrorism?

Yes.
There was no investigation carried out prior to the pulling of aid, according to the Israeli officials.

The aid was pulled on foot of ALLEGATIONS from Israel.
Of course Israel always tells the truth. Yep, 40 beheaded babies. Baby burned in oven. No we did not shoot those people - but there is video evidence. And on it goes.

"I have never received the slightest concern about the staff that we are employing," UNRWA Commissioner-General Philippe Lazzarini said during a press conference on Monday.

Lazzarini was responding to Israeli claims that 450 of UNRWA's 13,000 employees are active members of Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

He said the only allegations he's received are related to Israel's accusations in January claiming that 12 of alleged UNRWA staff participated in the October 7 Hamas attacks on Israel.

I certainly don’t. These are some of the most compassionate countries in the world that help in all sorts of ways whenever a humanitarian crisis hits.

If those countries had ANY compassion at all, their aid could have been re-directed and not stopped.

Next you will be telling us that Israel is compassionate and is not starving and murdering innocent civilians.

Yeah. Right.

There is more than one border and the only country that gets blamed is Israel.

Hamas continues to reject the only order the court at the ICJ made, to release the hostages held by Hamas immediately and unconditionally. That is all the court has said.

Really?

[Berties_Horse]

We are a long way removed from October 7th and straddling the fence, there is little doubt now that Israel are presiding over a genocide. Ursula von der Leyen has been exposed as a hypocrite, and power brokers like the USA indifferent to atrocities. The machinations of influence have become rather apparent.

[Norman Breaks]

Do you think these countries would cut off funding to aid agencies without seeing substantial evidence of their involvement in terrorism?

I don`t just think it, this is actually what happened. Now that collusion narrative has fallen apart and been shown to be another in a very long list of Israel propaganda lies.

There is more than one border and the only country that gets blamed is Israel.

Israel is the ones doing the murdering. Israel is the one that kettled almost the entire population in to Rafah and then proceeded to fire missiles at tents full of refugees. I mean...

Hamas continues to reject the only order the court at the ICJ made, to release the hostages held by Hamas immediately and unconditionally. That is all the court has said.

Ah yes, Israel should get to destroy an entire city, decimate the population and starve it's citizens with world impunity and then it should get all it's demands met unconditionally. Because... then maybe it will stop? Maybe then life can go back to normal? What is normal for the Palestinians who have been displaced from their lands and under siege for decades? Get a grip bro. Cop on to life.

[PureIsle]

...

There is more than one border and the only country that gets blamed is Israel.

...

Israel is the only one murdering people in Gaza daily. Maybe that has escaped your attention?

Please show me on a current map where there is any entry point into Gaza not controlled by Israel.
You will not be able to, as none exist!

Any aid entering Gaza must first be approved by Israel. That includes air drops.
It is Israel that limits everything allowed into Gaza.

There are no airfields in Gaza (Israel would not allow one to be built). If it had existed it would have been obliterated by now.

Israel has control of access by sea patrolled by their armed ships, which they regularly use to target Palestinian fishermen trying to prevent starvation.

Israel regularly targets places Palestinians gather for refuge and blows those people into little bits and pieces.

But yet you defend the indefensible.

Israel is a terrorist state. Face it.
Israel is an apartheid state. Face it.
Israel is committing genocide. Face it.
Israel has no intention of stopping. Face it.

Israel needs to be stopped by any means necessary and its criminals brought to justice, including the settlers who have been killing and stealing with impunity under the protection of the IDF.

[PureIsle]

The World Food Programme said an aid convoy was denied entry to north Gaza by Israel’s military, preventing the first attempt by the UN agency to deliver aid there since February 20. WFP said “to avert famine”, there must be road access to Gaza’s north.

Why would WFP expect to be treated any differently than all others?


Israel prevented water filters provided by the UK government from entering the Gaza Strip, saying they were a “threat”, according to a UK member of parliament. Rosena Allin-Khan, raised the question: “What threat does a water filter, supplied by the UK government, have?”

At least 30,631 people including more than 12,300 children, have been killed and over 72,043 injured in Israeli attacks on Gaza since October 7.

[knownunknown]

The murder of Palestinian civilians is an ongoing event. I will not be quiet about it.

I didn’t see anyone post about “the murder of the Palestinians” before October 7th. The day Hamas invaded Israel and killed over 1,000 people in cold blood and took 250 hostage and since still hold about a 100.

The fact that nobody supporting this terrorist regime has anything to say about the hostages is very telling. But …but… Israel … is just not good enough here.

[knownunknown]

Israel is the only one murdering people in Gaza daily. Maybe that has escaped your attention?

Please show me on a current map where there is any entry point into Gaza not controlled by Israel.
You will not be able to, as none exist!

Any aid entering Gaza must first be approved by Israel. That includes air drops.
It is Israel that limits everything allowed into Gaza.

Intellectually dishonest. You have said that a genocide is happening because of blockades. Here is the Rafa crossing under Egyptian control.


Bait and switch at its finest.

This is your quote.

”Add to that the blockade of food, water, and power to Gaza, causing severe suffering, death and starvation to the population, as well as the continuous destruction of housing, hospitals, mosques and other 'safe havens', ensuring a lack of shelter during Winter for the displaced civilians, it can, IMO, only be seen as a deliberate destruction of the Palestinian population and thus a genocide.

Also your quote:

Just force Israel to unlock the border for all those humanitarian aid trucks seeking entry to all of Gaza!
Naw, obviously that would not be in line with Western principles.

Here is the Rafah crossing under the control of Egypt. Maybe you can honestly address my question and tell me why Israel gets the only accusation of genocide when they are not the only ones with “the blockade of food, water and power to Gaza” (your words).

[knownunknown]

There are about 5 million Palestinians, how much of an army can they raise against the Israelis and how many of the dead were active combatants and how many were civilians? I’m finding this information very difficult to find.

Wiki says Ireland(similar populartion) has an army of about 14,000 and this is a country that doesn’t have any use for one.

Here is the birth rate and death rate for Gaza, birth rate is higher than Ireland and death rate is lower. Interesting genocide.

Birth rate
24.42 births/1,000 population (West Bank – 2022 est.)
27.67 births/1,000 population (Gaza Strip – 2022 est.)
Death rate
3.4 deaths/1,000 population (West Bank – 2022 est.)
2.91 deaths/1,000 population (Gaza Strip – 2022 est.)

Ireland

Birth rate
13.7 births/1,000 population
Death rate
6.5 deaths/1,000 population

[knownunknown]

Just when you think the IOF can't sink any lower. The US can and needs top put a stop to this.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wi ... -107666428

This was a horrific event, which happened in a powder keg of circumstances.

there has been almost no recognition or acknowledgement, especially on social media, that the incident was based off of good intentions by Israel. The goal of the distribution was part of an Israeli plan to get additional food to Gazans by working with Gazan businessmen.

That lack of recognition is quintessentially human. In the face of such a tragedy—and the broader ongoing one in Gaza—it’s easy to dismiss intentions as irrelevant. But intentions do matter. It’s within intentions that we recognize humanity. Not pausing to understand the intentions here, while understandable, encourages Palestinians to dismiss Israel’s humanity, as well. So it becomes easy to believe the Hamas-run health ministry’s version of events as simply a “massacre,” alternative explanations being unnecessary given how they interfere with preconceived notions.

It reminds me of those horrific BLM images we saw where cars were stopped and mobbed with people and those people were so scared they just drove through sometimes injuring or even killing somebody. Of course BLM described it as a deliberate massacre of people.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... 2020%2C000.

[Norman Breaks]

Here is the Rafah crossing under the control of Egypt. Maybe you can honestly address my question and tell me why Israel gets the only accusation of genocide when they are not the only ones with “the blockade of food, water and power to Gaza” (your words).

Egypt is preventing people from crossing from Gaza to Egypt. To my knowledge they are not preventing food from entering. There is plenty of videos of Israeli citizens having dance parties preventing food aid from entering. The IOF could easily shut these parties down and allow the aid to enter is they actually wanted to. Egypt is not to blame here. Away with that notion.

[Norman Breaks]

Birth rate
24.42 births/1,000 population (West Bank – 2022 est.)
27.67 births/1,000 population (Gaza Strip – 2022 est.)
Death rate
3.4 deaths/1,000 population (West Bank – 2022 est.)
2.91 deaths/1,000 population (Gaza Strip – 2022 est.)

Why are you quoting 2022 figures to try to disprove a genocide that kicked off in the 4th quarter of 2023 and is continuing to this day? This is pure nonsensical.

[knownunknown]

Egypt is preventing people from crossing from Gaza to Egypt. To my knowledge they are not preventing food from entering. There is plenty of videos of Israeli citizens having dance parties preventing food aid from entering. The IOF could easily shut these parties down and allow the aid to enter is they actually wanted to. Egypt is not to blame here. Away with that notion.

That’s not the notion, the notion is how is Gaza experiencing a blockade(and thus a genocide) if they are receiving aid through the rafah crossing, which you agree is happening.

[Norman Breaks]

This was a horrific event, which happened in a powder keg of circumstances.



It reminds me of those horrific BLM images we saw where cars were stopped and mobbed with people and those people were so scared they just drove through sometimes injuring or even killing somebody. Of course BLM described it as a deliberate massacre of people.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... 2020%2C000.

Wow, haha, the depths you'll crawl. Literal bullets were shot out of guns aimed at innocent, starved civilians and you're somehow equating that to BLM rallies? You've lost the plot mate.

[knownunknown]

About half the number of people who perished in 9/11 died in oct. 7 and is one of the greatest acts of terrorism ever seen. This was the American response at the time.



2mins43seconds

The search is underway for those who have committed these evil acts. I have directed the full resources of the intelligence and law enforcement communities to find those responsible and to bring them to justice. We will make no distinction between the terrorists that committed these acts and those who harbour them.” George Bush.

[Norman Breaks]

I didn’t see anyone post about “the murder of the Palestinians” before October 7th. The day Hamas invaded Israel and killed over 1,000 people in cold blood and took 250 hostage and since still hold about a 100.
The fact that nobody supporting this terrorist regime has anything to say about the hostages is very telling. But …but… Israel … is just not good enough here.

I've posted online on various forums and socials about Palestine and Gaza for around 2 decades. It wasn't such a global talking point back then because of how well Israel hid it with their propaganda and shutting down dissent. That is not longer an option. The proverbial cat is out of the bag and crimes can no longer be shielded from the world. Israel is committing genocide right before our eye. The whole world can see it. South Africa didn't just make up a few white lies for the ICJ.

[Norman Breaks]

About half the number of people who perished in 9/11 died in oct. 7 and is one of the greatest acts of terrorism ever seen. This was the American response at the time.



2mins43seconds

Ah yes, the Americans. The bastion of truth, justice and righteousness. /s