Sophie Toscan du Plantier

[schmittel]

Recently watched both the Sheridan and Netflix documentaries on the murder of Sophie Toscan du Plantier, and found the story fascinating. Of course I was aware of the big picture, and always presumed Ian Bailey to be guilty but I never knew any of the detail. Having watched both programs I am far less convinced of his guilt now.

Will this ever be concluded, one way or the other? Seems unlikely now - if there was anything more to come out on Bailey it would have done so by now, and equally if there was any info on anybody else you would expect it would have surfaced by now.

So all we can do is speculate. No harm in that. Is it:

a) Bailey guilty
b) AN Other guilty and got away with it due to gardai incompetence
c) An Other guilty and got away with it due to gardai cover up

I'm leaning towards (b) - Bailey pretty objectionable bloke and circumstantially was a good fit, gardai invested too much in him being the killer, and other avenues were not explored as they should have been.

[kadman]

The other two french gentlemen seem to have not been investigated at all, which is extremely strange.
Too many unanswered questions there.

[DeletedUser]

I was in Schull when this happened - the locals were very keen to throw any blame whatsoever away from other locals, I don't know if Bailey is guilty or not (I'd lean towards not guilty probably) but there was something odd at the time.

I've stayed in the cottages at the top of the road from Main Street in Schull by the cemetary and walked up there in pitch darkness and felt safe. Something like this murder was not a random attack - she knew her killer/s for sure, IMHO.

[Del.Monte]

I would think Option (a) but due to monumental Garda incompetence any satisfactory conclusion to this tragedy is highly unlikely.

[Hairy-Joe]

I'm going to go with option b) & c). I think that the Garda made a mess of securing the scene and made a mess of the initial investigation. Then someone took advantage of the mess to cover up what happened.

I think Ian Bailey was a journalist in the right place at the right time for the incident. However, as he was "a blow-in" not gifted with a good thick West Cork accent, locals didn't take too kindly to the blow-in. Hence he got targeted. Then the Garda just latched onto him being guilty for an easier life. Remember, back then in rural Ireland, some of the Garda acted as if they were kings.

[silverbirch]

a) Bailey guilty
b) AN Other guilty and got away with it due to gardai incompetence
c) An Other guilty and got away with it due to gardai cover up

I’d say he’s innocent until proven guilty, regardless of whether it’s a, b or c above. The DPP rightly concluded that there wasn’t any evidence that would hold up in a trial. Therefore, he’s innocent in Irish law.

The most remarkable thing about this case is that the French courts found him guilty based on hearsay and flimsy anecdotes that you wouldn’t even call circumstantial evidence in this country. The French approach appears to be: allegations are made to a magistrate, the burden of proof is put on the accused, and in the absence of that proof, the accused is found guilty. This has echoes of the Outreau affair from 20 years ago.

[Cobham]

A good source of background on this case is the 14 episode podcast called 'West Cork'.

[schmittel]

Here's a theory I never would have thought of...

She had breakfast type food in her stomach and lights in house were off, suggesting she may have been killed early morning in daylight hours.

She got up, had breakfast, laced up her boots and went out to feed the horses. She spooked the horses, who attacked her, knocked her into the briars, she retreated over the gate smearing blood on it, staggered across the lane, collapsed and hit her head off a concrete block!



Case closed.

[Diamonds of Frost]

I think Ian Bailey is innocent of Sophie's murder.. He is an odd character no doubt but I think he was thrown under a bus. The local people seemed.....I don't know..just something strange about the whole thing, it looked like they really really wanted it to be him.
I also felt the rerired detective who was interviewed in the armchair was dodgy. Going by the two documentaries I'd rather sit and chat with Bailey than him. Not sure what that says about me.

[schmittel]

I think Ian Bailey is innocent of Sophie's murder.. He is an odd character no doubt but I think he was thrown under a bus. The local people seemed.....I don't know..just something strange about the whole thing, it looked like they really really wanted it to be him.
I also felt the rerired detective who was interviewed in the armchair was dodgy. Going by the two documentaries I'd rather sit and chat with Bailey than him. Not sure what that says about me.

I thought the same and was a bit embarrassed to admit it. Bailey came across as a complete and utter lunatic but the detective came across as a slippery fecker. If you sat down with them, you'd want to be on high alert for Bailey to stab himself in the chest and Dwyer to stab you in the back!

His interviews reminded me of an article I read cautioning to always beware of people who are 100% certain they are right, since such certainty tends to lead them to the view that the end justifies the means. I could definitely imagine him fabricating statements and what not.

The other thing that struck me was when he was talking about the allegations against the gardai, such as bribing Martin Graham etc. His attitude was very much "Poor me, people can say anything without proof, but nothing was proven and this sort of thing sticks, and it is hard to live with' .

He seemed totally unaware of the irony.

[BettyBee]

I have listened to the Mens Rea and West Cork pod casts and watched both doc's and I am sure he did it! Too many reason's to list as to why I believe he did.
The cops messed up - thats for sure.. thats criminal in itself.. none the less.. Bailey has blood on his hands (Jules' too)

I would be so disgusted if he got onto The Late Late Show

[Del.Monte]

I have listened to the Mens Rea and West Cork pod casts and watched both doc's and I am sure he did it! Too many reason's to list as to why I believe he did.
The cops messed up - thats for sure.. thats criminal in itself.. none the less.. Bailey has blood on his hands (Jules' too)

I would be so disgusted if he got onto The Late Late Show

Remember the Joe O'Reilly Late Late Show appearance - few of us who watched that had any doubt as to his guilt. Even Ian Bailey wouldn't be daft enough to appear there or would he?

[BettyBee]

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/r ... 88153.html

[schmittel]

After watching both documentaries, and listing to West Cork podcast I read the DPP report. You can read it here.

It's fascinating and well worth a read. I found it interesting because it methodically assesses all the evidence against Bailey totally impartially - i.e there is no opinion from a Jim Sheridan with an eye on the ratings, or a neighbour with bias, or a grief stricken family member.

[95438756]

I would be so disgusted if he got onto The Late Late Show

Bailey is not daft nor holds scruples like that.

[Banshee Bones]

I’d say he’s innocent until proven guilty, regardless of whether it’s a, b or c above. The DPP rightly concluded that there wasn’t any evidence that would hold up in a trial. Therefore, he’s innocent in Irish law.

The most remarkable thing about this case is that the French courts found him guilty based on hearsay and flimsy anecdotes that you wouldn’t even call circumstantial evidence in this country. The French approach appears to be: allegations are made to a magistrate, the burden of proof is put on the accused, and in the absence of that proof, the accused is found guilty. This has echoes of the Outreau affair from 20 years ago.

The French system is that allegations and proof are assessed and if they are of a sufficient standard then the burden of proof is put on the accused, in much the way that DPP would assess a case before they decide to prosecute

The remarkable thing about the bailey case is the French accepted the throw-shit-at-a-wall evidence collection method of the gardai from back then and treated it like it had been as rigourously assessed as it would have been in the French system

[BossBird]

C)
I think it was covered up. Interesting that it looks like a full cold case review will be sanctioned now.
I don't think it will ever be solved.
I think it was a member of AGS who did it.
I hope Ian Bailey clears his name though.

[BossBird]

You think the review will find that he wasn't an extremely violent drunk who had the opportunity to murder her and said he did just that to a number of people?

I doubt it.

The DPP never found that so I doubt a review will. The investigation was a shambles, they didn't consider other suspects, they lost evidence, pages torn out of jobs books, witnesses coecerced, bribed and intimidated, scene wasn't preserved. Thats just a brief overview.
At the very least I'd hope that a cold case review actually looks at the gardais behaviour from the beginning.

[isha]

Listened to this on my walk today. Especially in the first part I found him to sound untruthful. But the possibility remains I suppose that he could be telling the truth. Shattered Lives Podcast interview of Ian Bailey.

[BannerD]

I was in Schull when this happened - the locals were very keen to throw any blame whatsoever away from other locals, I don't know if Bailey is guilty or not (I'd lean towards not guilty probably) but there was something odd at the time.

I've stayed in the cottages at the top of the road from Main Street in Schull by the cemetary and walked up there in pitch darkness and felt safe. Something like this murder was not a random attack - she knew her killer/s for sure, IMHO.

I knew one of the media people involved in reports when it happened . They said it was common knowledge Bailey did it. I don't know if I that was just put about common knowledge put about by locals and or Gardai but that is what I heard. More recently a media person in the cork area told me they believe Bailey did it. I know that is just their belief but I agree. I think there was forensic evidence that got destroyed due to delay with Harbison just IMO. It was a very cold night but the following day was a windy I think.

Bailey is surprised the gardai have not spoken to him. I would say the first he will hear will be an arrest and they will have enough to ground a charge maybe largely circumstantial. That is just my opinion. Just like they got their evidence and pounced on satchwell. They didn't warn satchwell. What could they say to Bailey now rhat wouldn't show their hand or put him on his guard.

I'd put money on it Bailey will be charged, were I a gambler. Did the Garda interview you?

[BannerD]

@Admin. I was trying to edit my last post and quoted it instead. Had to delete two posts. Apologies if that causes any inconvenience.

[BannerD]

After watching both documentaries, and listing to West Cork podcast I read the DPP report. You can read it here.

It's fascinating and well worth a read. I found it interesting because it methodically assesses all the evidence against Bailey totally impartially - i.e there is no opinion from a Jim Sheridan with an eye on the ratings, or a neighbour with bias, or a grief stricken family member.

The DPP has an eye on whether they will get a conviction if they charge, so there is a bias. It is DPP opinion that Bailey was engaging in black humour when he admitted it. It is my opinion he wasn't

[nlgbbbblth]

I never liked Ian Bailey.

[Del.Monte]

I never liked Ian Bailey.

You're in company with most people I suspect.

[PureIsle]

Ian Bailey has died - reported today.