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“Stealth Rape”

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DeletedUser
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“Stealth Rape”

#1

Post by DeletedUser »

Reading a magazine here and came across this new thing.

Apparently this is when a couple has consensual sex and the man removes a condom during it. It’s now “rape” and guys are doing time.

Remind me - how many women were charged with rape or any crime for saying “it’s okay, I’m on the pill”. Be zero that eh ?

What a joke.
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490808
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#2

Post by 490808 »

Don't think thats particularly new also think its a UK thing?

As usual the BBC have a piece on it https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-39705734 from 2017.
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Del.Monte
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#3

Post by Del.Monte »

What sort of right thinking male behaves like that? Don't know whether it's technically rape but the individual concerned definitely needs a kick in the nuts - might think twice about doing it again.
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Hodors Appletart
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#4

Post by Hodors Appletart »

it's rape, because there was no consent to sex if no condom is involved

as soon as the condom is off, and further penetration happens, it becomes rape imo
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#5

Post by DeletedUser »

Hodors Appletart wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:03 pm it's rape, because there was no consent to sex if no condom is involved

as soon as the condom is off, and further penetration happens, it becomes rape imo
Agreed but being a scumbag isn’t worth a five year stretch and a life on the sex offenders register tho.

My point stands - why is a woman lying about protection ok and a man doing a heinous crime ?
“I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire

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DeletedUser
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#6

Post by DeletedUser »

Hodors Appletart wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:03 pm it's rape, because there was no consent to sex if no condom is involved

as soon as the condom is off, and further penetration happens, it becomes rape imo
Sorry but that’s Louise O’Neill worthy bollocks. Rape is sex without consent - the sad thing is that like the definition of racism, the definition of rape has been watered down. Actually vile sick rapists are escaping prosecution as a result.
“I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire

"I'll see you out there!!" - Roy Keane
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isha
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#7

Post by isha »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:28 pm Agreed but being a scumbag isn’t worth a five year stretch and a life on the sex offenders register tho.

My point stands - why is a woman lying about protection ok and a man doing a heinous crime ?
You are missing the point that the consent to penetration has changed because the circumstances leading to consent have changed - in the case of condom removal the woman is more in danger of STD or unwanted pregnancy, so may not have consented without condom. It is not rape in the sense of a vicious assault, but it is rape nonetheless.
Personally I do not agree with making some kind of trauma equivalence between cat-calling / arse-grabbing and rape which MeToo did to some extent. And I thought that was really disrespectful of people who have been violently assaulted. But in this case removal of condom is along the scale of actual rape because consent has fundamentally changed.
There should be scales of punishment according to how grave a sexual offense is, and the punishment should match the gravity of the crime. The sentences for rape and incest in this country are dreadful.
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DeletedUser
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#8

Post by DeletedUser »

Sorry but nonsense - I have a friend with an ex who contracted HIV from a woman who said “I’m on the pill”. Yeah - she might have been but she had a deadly virus.

You’re the one missing the point - women are being infantilised; men are seen as a bogeyman. The rank hypocrisy of seeing a magazine today saying “why are our men scared to go to the doctor?” when running articles about “he’s got man flu again!!”

Women can lie, women can be manipulative and women can be abusive - but a man raises his voice and he’s the bad guy.

I’m a woman and I am thoroughly sick of it.

Edit - to add about sentencing, absolutely. But they must be applied equally to men and women and they are not.
“I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire

"I'll see you out there!!" - Roy Keane
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SeanCena
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#9

Post by SeanCena »

Presume they omitted the hiv bit while mentioning the pill
DeletedUser
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#10

Post by DeletedUser »

Mountain wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:53 am Hold on, you have a friend who thought the pill prevented HIV?
Way to miss the point btw.
“I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire

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Peregrinus
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#11

Post by Peregrinus »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:55 pm Way to miss the point btw.
So what is the point? You're friend contracted HIV in a consensual sexual encounter in which no representation was made that he had any protection against HIV, and in which his consent was in no way conditional on safe sex practice being observed. How has your friend been wronged? Was his consent to the encounter obtained by fraud or dishonesty or deceit? I don't see that it was.

So, like I say, I'm not seeing what point you are making with this.
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Cyclepath
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#12

Post by Cyclepath »

I'm wondering how prevalent this issue is. Let's face it there's a solid reason for men to not want the responsibility and cost of a child especially in a situation where the woman has been deceived. Are there hordes of men out there secretly wishing to partake in some sort of guerilla fertilisation fetish?

However I do see the point Planespeeking made in that the male always comes out of deal worse off in most cases. For example, a woman can trick a man into fertilising her eggs without consequence. Equally, a woman can decide to have an abortion but a man can't opt out of fatherhood if the woman decides to keep a baby he doesn't want. This pushes responsibility and consequence exclusively to the male.

Having said that, I still think removing a condom is a scummy thing to do and deserves punishment.

Also, it's highly unlikely and quite difficult for a man to catch HIV from a woman. You'd need in theory some sort of wound on the penis and an incredibly high viral load in the woman's vaginal secretions. The typical infection path from Female to Male is via shared needles.
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isha
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#13

Post by isha »

Cyclepath wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:14 am . Are there hordes of men out there secretly wishing to partake in some sort of guerilla fertilisation fetish?
It's about feel. That's why people want/pay extra for no condom when they buy sex. I am supposing.
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Wibbs
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#14

Post by Wibbs »

Feel might be a large part of it as the difference(at least for me anyway) is huge. Same for women, or some anyway. Some don't notice much of a diff, some very much do.

That said I would reckon a fair chunk of it for some of these guys is little to do with feel and more to do with some twisted power trip. Something that's a big factor in rape too.
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CelticRambler
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#15

Post by CelticRambler »

Cyclepath wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:14 am I'm wondering how prevalent this issue is. Let's face it there's a solid reason for men to not want the responsibility and cost of a child especially in a situation where the woman has been deceived. Are there hordes of men out there secretly wishing to partake in some sort of guerilla fertilisation fetish?
One anecdote doesn't constitute solid fact, but a few years ago I had the discomfort of sharing a breakfast table in a US guest house with a guy who bragged about just that. When he learnt that I was Irish, he told me the he'd once had an Irish wife. He didn't mean one of his own - supposedly it was a Cork woman he'd met and seduced in Las Vegas, and he'd set himself the objective of getting her pregnant just for the thrill of imagining her husband looking at a baby born nine months later with distinctly latino features. It could have been all talk, but given this fellow's generally obnoxious nature, I wouldn't have been surprised if there was at least some truth in it - and there are probably more like him, too.
aidhor8319
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#16

Post by aidhor8319 »

CelticRambler wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:08 am One anecdote doesn't constitute solid fact, but a few years ago I had the discomfort of sharing a breakfast table in a US guest house with a guy who bragged about just that. When he learnt that I was Irish, he told me the he'd once had an Irish wife. He didn't mean one of his own - supposedly it was a Cork woman he'd met and seduced in Las Vegas, and he'd set himself the objective of getting her pregnant just for the thrill of imagining her husband looking at a baby born nine months later with distinctly latino features. It could have been all talk, but given this fellow's generally obnoxious nature, I wouldn't have been surprised if there was at least some truth in it - and there are probably more like him, too.
What an absolute scumbag, unfortunately there's sick men out there like him but plenty of sick women too so its important to not start stigmatizing all men

My problem with this law is where does it stop, anyone who has ever used condoms before knows that they can break by accident too. Are guys in that situation going to be screwed too? Also, can a vengeful woman or ex turn around and say you took the condom off without telling her even though you both know you didnt use one in the first place. How will that be proven either way.

In future, it seems like the days of people of sleeping around will be gone. Just too many risks nowadays of getting accused of something or something terrible happening. You really need to know the type of person you're sleeping with nowadays
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Memento Mori
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#17

Post by Memento Mori »

aidhor8319 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:41 pm

In future, it seems like the days of people of sleeping around will be gone. Just too many risks nowadays of getting accused of something or something terrible happening. You really need to know the type of person you're sleeping with nowadays
Seems most prudent for men not to have sex outside of an established, loving relationship.

Just wait until the meaning of "consent" expands beyond the binary position it is now. "Meaningful, informed consent" will be the next item on the agenda, and with a legitimate reason. The idea that just because someone says "yes" to something at a moment in time (often in a pressurized environment) means that all kinds of (sometimes violent and extreme) sexual acts are grand does not fit in well with consent as a legal construct. Look at all the hoops and such you need to jump through, advice etc. to consent to do things with your money. In the future, "he/she said yes" will not cut it as this affirmation can easily be put to one side when other factors, included possible power/social imbalances, are considered. So in other words, you really need to completely trust your partner, and have reason to do so. This is not compatible with a lifestyle involving "sleeping around".

On a broader note, attempting to divorce the sexual act from its emotional component seems to be a fools errand to me, it's quite likely that one or the other can or will get hurt eventually if living a promiscuous lifestyle. This is especially the case with the likes of tinder etc. and the social pressure, especially on women, not to be seen to be looking for "something serious". In my experience of online dating what most women tend to actually mean is "nothing serious immediately, but hopefully, it could develop into that". If a young woman (say under 30) had "looking to get married and have children" on their online profile it would raise eyebrows among lots of men. So this tends to be limited to women 30 plus, who are either conscious of their waning fertility or have been messed around by men for years already. So relationships, for younger people especially, are casualised almost from the get-go laying a minefield for emotional hurt, and for men in particular, especially messy situations that, even though it seems fine today, could come back and bite them down the line.
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#18

Post by DeletedUser »

Peregrinus wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:45 am So what is the point? You're friend contracted HIV in a consensual sexual encounter in which no representation was made that he had any protection against HIV, and in which his consent was in no way conditional on safe sex practice being observed. How has your friend been wronged? Was his consent to the encounter obtained by fraud or dishonesty or deceit? I don't see that it was.

So, like I say, I'm not seeing what point you are making with this.
Point is - women lie and are never called out on it.

Was he stupid to have unprotected sex on her word? Possibly yes - but if it was a man infecting a woman he’d be jailed. She got off scot free.
“I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire

"I'll see you out there!!" - Roy Keane
DeletedUser
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#19

Post by DeletedUser »

Memento Mori wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:07 pm Seems most prudent for men not to have sex outside of an established, loving relationship.

Just wait until the meaning of "consent" expands beyond the binary position it is now. "Meaningful, informed consent" will be the next item on the agenda, and with a legitimate reason. The idea that just because someone says "yes" to something at a moment in time (often in a pressurized environment) means that all kinds of (sometimes violent and extreme) sexual acts are grand does not fit in well with consent as a legal construct. Look at all the hoops and such you need to jump through, advice etc. to consent to do things with your money. In the future, "he/she said yes" will not cut it as this affirmation can easily be put to one side when other factors, included possible power/social imbalances, are considered. So in other words, you really need to completely trust your partner, and have reason to do so. This is not compatible with a lifestyle involving "sleeping around".

On a broader note, attempting to divorce the sexual act from its emotional component seems to be a fools errand to me, it's quite likely that one or the other can or will get hurt eventually if living a promiscuous lifestyle. This is especially the case with the likes of tinder etc. and the social pressure, especially on women, not to be seen to be looking for "something serious". In my experience of online dating what most women tend to actually mean is "nothing serious immediately, but hopefully, it could develop into that". If a young woman (say under 30) had "looking to get married and have children" on their online profile it would raise eyebrows among lots of men. So this tends to be limited to women 30 plus, who are either conscious of their waning fertility or have been messed around by men for years already. So relationships, for younger people especially, are casualised almost from the get-go laying a minefield for emotional hurt, and for men in particular, especially messy situations that, even though it seems fine today, could come back and bite them down the line.
Excellent take thank you - and fitting in with earlier thoughts; a man and a woman go out and go drink for drink (or the man consumes more) after a vigorous night of consensual sex, she can regret it and he is looking down the barrel of a sentence - Chad Evans, case in point.
“I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire

"I'll see you out there!!" - Roy Keane
RandallWeems
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#20

Post by RandallWeems »

It’s a bit of a minefield for a man out there today. We all know that a woman’s regret either through shame or disgust can lead to accusations tat will follow a young man all through his life. Men need to watch themselves and go for girls with tighter morals.
RandallWeems
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Re: “Stealth Rape”

#21

Post by RandallWeems »

RIP personal responsibility.
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