Alec Baldwin Kills Cinematographer

[Scotty]

Yea 24 seems very young to have such a responsibility. She's been in trouble before for her safety record and the assistant director (who called 'cold gun') was sacked in 2019 for a similar incident regarding gun safety.

It seems this was a very low budget movie that cut a few too many corners.

All that said, I don't understand why it's still top of the headlines on CNN, etc.

[Cyclepath]

Yea 24 seems very young to have such a responsibility. She's been in trouble before for her safety record and the assistant director (who called 'cold gun') was sacked in 2019 for a similar incident regarding gun safety.

It seems this was a very low budget movie that cut a few too many corners.

All that said, I don't understand why it's still top of the headlines on CNN, etc.

Apparently the budget was 'only' $6m

I suppose that's not much in hollywood terms but it doesn't excuse having live rounds on set - that costs nothing but common sense.

But it's easy to see that for most Americans, a hollywood film set death is far more interesting than for example the shambles they left behind in afghanistan.

[Wibbs]

Apparently the budget was 'only' $6m

I suppose that's not much in hollywood terms

It's a shoestring budget for a Hollywood flic. That said made for TV stuff like Hallmark films would be about half that, but that sorta thing aren't period dramas, have no big names, are scripted to a simple formula that could be rattled off on a Macbook over a weekend using internal writers and would be shot in places like Canada* to a formula with the same crew so are more like production line products and much cheaper to produce. And they're a sure bet that make bazillions for the company.

Shooting in the States alone raises the costs by quite a bit, hence so many TV series shoot in places like Canada, the Czech Rep and here. Add more cash for period stuff and the building of period sets. Baldwin being the producer wouldn't be looking for much at the front end, but I don't know if there were any other "names" on it. Even so it seems they were cutting corners on accomodation and the quality of crew and people were walking off. You pay peanuts you get monkeys and at least one of same had live ammo on set and handed a loaded pistol to an actor.




*they shot some here a few years back. Rattled them almost all at once out at a much higher speed than even most TV movies. Very slick operation.

[kadman]

Some of the film for tv stuff has a good budget for the crew, and the crew numbers at time can be increasing weekly depending on the shoot.
My son works in the film for TV at the moment, with a lot of top names who have moved into that area of film making, and the crew can be very well looked after, but the hours are long. He is into the prostethics special effects area, and they throw money at it. He spent most of last year in Prague, and he is now in canada.

[Scotty]

So the Assistant Director, David Halls, has admitted to investigators that he did not check the rounds before handing Baldwin the gun. David Halls was sacked from a movie set in 2019 after a gun there fired a live round unexpectedly.

Over 500 rounds, live, dummy, and blanks, were found on set.

There were a calamity of incidents leading up to the shooting with staff quitting over conditions and other gun related incidents.

Baldwin, as producer, could still face some liability.

[GubuOriginal]

I don't see that live and blank ammo being kept together together is such a big deal. Its all ammo all if it can kill.

Obviously you don't mix live and blank ammo in the same box, you keep it in separate clearly labeled boxes but when its locked away safe then it all ammo boxes go in the same store. Anyone handling the ammunition can easily see the difference between real rounds and blanks.

I am however starting to wonder if the armourer for a budget movie was hired because she was a cheap hire due to lack of previous experience.

It's a huge deal, as it can result in accidents like this. Whenever you store ammo they should be stored separately. The boxes for live and blank aren't always that different when taking a quick glance, though the markings on the boxes certainly are. Also, blank ammo can only kill in extremely rare circumstances, unlike live ammo which is designed to kill.

[Scotty]

I kid you not... https://shopdonjr.com/collections/mens- ... -apparel-1

[Del.Monte]

I kid you not... https://shopdonjr.com/collections/mens- ... -apparel-1

I was going to ask was that site for real but it is...what a cess pit the USA has become.

[490808]

The huge deal is the safety and security of the storage. If the rounds are in clearly marked boxes and only issued by the armourer who is going to know the difference even with a blindfold on then just like a gun shop or military magazine they can be stored in the same place. Do gun shops have separate stores for live and blank ammunition? In the ammo store (magazine) then yeah separate out all the individual types of ammunition and even store it in separate locked boxes but in my experience it all goes in the one secure store.

If anyone can get at the ammunition and even take a weapon and go and shoot it as may have happened here then thats were things are going to go wrong. Maybe someone borrowed the film gun and used it with their own ammunition bought on set.

Blanks do not remotely look like live rounds. The armourer who should be in charge and issuing any rounds used can easily distingish the difference even if an actor can't.

There is one other issue which doesn't seem to have happened here. It might be possible to mix up what the armourers make up to look like real rounds with no charge in them (Brandon Lee) and actual real rounds. The answer is to treat all ammunition, live, blank or dummy round as if it is live ammunition and all guns as if they are loaded. Its quite simple if the gun can shoot then some idiot could find away of loading it with live ammunition. Having no live ammunition on set is only the start of safely using real guns on a film set.

There is one other type of round that you see less and less on films as they don't look real and thats the drill round. They are the right shape to load and dry fire for training but they have no primar and normally have fluted cases and often have red paint marks so they don't look like real rounds. The whole point of them is that they work in the weapon without firing but are obviously not real to anyone seeing them.



The picture below (clickable for the full article) shows the difference between live and blank ammunition.

[Scotty]

The huge deal is the safety and security of the storage. If the rounds are in clearly marked boxes and only issued by the armourer who is going to know the difference even with a blindfold on then just like a gun shop or military magazine they can be stored in the same place.

Apparently they were being stored in a van on set (and possibly being driven off site every night).

This is the armorer in question...



Now I know you shouldn't judge a book by the cover but she just does not look to me like someone who would have the experience to be a lead armorer on a movie set. Though her father is actually one of the top Armorer's in the business.

[Banshee Bones]

It was her second job as an armourer and she said she was worried she wasnt ready when she took her first job, seemed she was right...

[Scotty]

It was her second job as an armourer and she said she was worried she wasnt ready when she took her first job, seemed she was right...

So do you blame her, who didn't lay out the guns properly, or the Assistant Director, who picked up a gun and handed it to Baldwin without checking if the rounds were actually blanks. He says he could see three in the drum. As Continental has pointed out, blanks and live are very different when you can see the whole bullet, but when you're only looking at the back of the drum then they're almost identical. He's admitted he didn't actually check them. Fatal mistake. I actually lay more blame with him tbh.

It was actually only a rehearsal they were doing so the guns should have been truly 'cold' ie. totally unloaded.

[490808]

Some interesting info from Breaking News https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/baldw ... 06503.html

Investigators found 500 rounds of ammunition — a mix of blanks, dummy rounds and suspected live rounds, even though the set’s firearms specialist, armourer Hannah Gutierrez Reed, said real ammunition should never have been present.

Lawyers for Gutierrez Reed said she has no idea where the live rounds came from.

If as has also been said in the news the same gun was being used for target shooting then where did those live rounds come from?

[Del.Monte]

It's gun crazy America - nothing to see here.

[95438756]

Baldwin released a brief statement which was read out on Rte radio 1 news this morning. If I were he, I would leave out terms like "1 - in - a - Trillion"

[490808]

^^^^

[Del.Monte]

The statement from Baldwin was trite in the extreme.

[95438756]

Baldwin gets the "Doctor Marvin Munroe" treatment (Simpsons) courtesy of Dr Todd Grande

[490808]

Funny how this will probably make into the feed on youtube of anyone following the shooting - its an interview with an armourer about blank firing guns in canada. Not related to the shooting but does explain a little of the job.

[490808]

Lawyer suggests sabotage on Alec Baldwin film set

While I can understand the point the lawyer is making I don't think it helps the armourers case that much.

The problem with the argument is that anyone used to handling ammunition would spot the difference. Unless of course they didn't have a clue and had no system of security. What's the point of an armourer if they don't know what live ammunition looks like and they don't secure the ammunition so it can't be messed with?

If you are handling rounds all the time particularly with a revolver you particularly notice things like the case base markings because that's the bit you see after inserting the rounds. For the argument to be totally convincing the swapped ammunition would have needed to be of the same manufacture as the dummy ammunition with the same case markings and there would have needed to be dummy ammunition in the first place that looked identical in every respect to live ammunition. Also I believe the gun was some type of old Colt 45 which has a huge cartridge with very visible case markings.

Then you have to ask why was the armourer loading any kind of ammunition that even looked like it was live in the first place. If these were supposed to be dummy rounds that looked like live rounds they wouldn't need a primer because thats not seen except when reloading (no primar no fire). The Colt 45 normally has a cover that is opened and closed to load rounds so primer is never seen. I can see a point for having real size dummy rounds when filming because on a Colt 45 you can see the bullets in the chamber when the camera is well towards the front of the gun. But if the idea was to fire blanks then blanks don't look at all like live rounds as I've already shown. So shots looking towards the gun from the front showing a realistically looking loaded gun would need to be cut into different shots showing the gun firing (blanks) or modified digitally which I don't think is that big a deal nowadays?

My theory (because I've been too close to something similar happening) is that someone was playing around shooting the gun with live ammunition. The Director called for the gun in the shoot and suddenly the shooter had to get the gun to the table. In the rush they just dumped it back on the table fully loaded or maybe unloaded it and dumped the live round and gun back on the table. If that's the case the armourer didn't check anything.

[kadman]

Movie budgets are one thing, but actual shoots time frames are another. They constantly change by the minute, and different directors by the second. What may be on the time table for tomorrow, could change on the morning. Along with all the support staff for the shoot, instantly.
And the crews are working non stop for days without proper breaks and rest periods, despite being union members. They would be working longer hours than a junior doctor. Its a tough job being under pressure constantly its a wonder that there are not more accidents.

[490808]

But by some accounts some of the crew had found time to go and have a play with the revolver in question.

[quodec]

So Baldwin now says he didn't pull the trigger on set. I havn't seen the interview but this case just gets curiouser and curiouser!!!

[95438756]

Trick Gun! Maybe the gun detected the wrong hand gripping it and wouldn't work properly

[Scotty]

The gun was an antique revolver. Who knows how stable it was being shaken about. Again, the lack of an experienced armorer on set seems to have been the downfall.