A number of countries throughout the world have already, or are seeking to, ban conversion therapy. I understand how forcing someone to be something they are not can be damaging and have terrible results mentally. While 'therapy' does not automatically involve coercion or force, it does seem that some, although not all, of the people who undergo this 'therapy' are essentially forced.
Much of the opposition to conversion therapy seems to necessitate the underlying claim that gender and sexual orientation are naturally determined phenomena inherent to a person's physical being- and that seeking to overturn these is a damaging fool's errand, a violation of some natural law - an abuse contrary to nature. If this is your starting point I can understand the opposition to conversion therapy.
However, many of the fiercest opponents of conversion therapy, who tend to be activists on a range of LGBTQI+ issues, make the claim that gender, and sexual orientation, are not naturally determined phenomena inherent to our physical being but are rather social constructs (or don't exist). If this is the case, if one decides they want to be a different gender or orientation, why should they not have therapy - of their own free will - in order to 'deconstruct' these constructions?
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Conversion Therapy
Re: Conversion Therapy
I think you are going to find that peoples support of free will stems from what they believe it coincides with their own views on a topic whether they would support it or not.Memento Mori wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:30 am A number of countries throughout the world have already, or are seeking to, ban conversion therapy. I understand how forcing someone to be something they are not can be damaging and have terrible results mentally. While 'therapy' does not automatically involve coercion or force, it does seem that some, although not all, of the people who undergo this 'therapy' are essentially forced.
Much of the opposition to conversion therapy seems to necessitate the underlying claim that gender and sexual orientation are naturally determined phenomena inherent to a person's physical being- and that seeking to overturn these is a damaging fool's errand, a violation of some natural law - an abuse contrary to nature. If this is your starting point I can understand the opposition to conversion therapy.
However, many of the fiercest opponents of conversion therapy, who tend to be activists on a range of LGBTQI+ issues, make the claim that gender, and sexual orientation, are not naturally determined phenomena inherent to our physical being but are rather social constructs (or don't exist). If this is the case, if one decides they want to be a different gender or orientation, why should they not have therapy - of their own free will - in order to 'deconstruct' these constructions?
We might like to think we support everyone elses choices of free will, in reality we dont, rather like the views on vaccine choice here, some want to force their views on others, its human nature.
Conversion therapy is a horrible thing for a free thinking person.
Re: Conversion Therapy
Its indoctrination by another name, and we have had centuries of conversion therapy under other names, like, crusades, missions,aboriginies, native americans have all had decades of it, there is an endless list.
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- Memento Mori
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Re: Conversion Therapy
If you mean that point is one of the main objections to conversion therapy, then implicit in that argument, and a necessary prerequisite, is the idea that gender/orientation being a social construct has a basis in science. It does not, nor does any gnostic type idea that we have an inner "true self" that has a different identity to our physical being and that we can be "assigned" at birth an incorrect gender identity that is different from this inner being/identity/self/soul etc.Mountain wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:14 pm Isn't one of the main objections the point that, whether it's futile because you cannot change sexual orientation, or because orientation is all a social construct, either way it has no basis in science. It's just...nonsense, a mix of pseudoscience and religion.
- Memento Mori
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Re: Conversion Therapy
Canada has passed a vote to ban Conversion Therapy: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... on-therapy
Re: Conversion Therapy
He seem happy with the results, if people want to take it why not allow them?
https://nypost.com/2021/03/10/milo-yian ... domy-free/
https://nypost.com/2021/03/10/milo-yian ... domy-free/
Re: Conversion Therapy
I can't understand why people just won't accept which way you swing. As long as it's two (or maybe more if lucky) consenting adults, I don't give a fig.
However, I believe other adults shouldn't be able to decide the gender of those consenting adults. Trying to force people to not accept who they are gender wise is completely wrong. Look at what happened here years ago when the "odd son" was sent to the priesthood years ago.
The irony is that most of the people pushing the conversation therapy crap are conservative Christians and they are not following the basic teaching of "love thy neighbor".
However, I believe other adults shouldn't be able to decide the gender of those consenting adults. Trying to force people to not accept who they are gender wise is completely wrong. Look at what happened here years ago when the "odd son" was sent to the priesthood years ago.
The irony is that most of the people pushing the conversation therapy crap are conservative Christians and they are not following the basic teaching of "love thy neighbor".