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Anyone still glued to this?

News, geopolitics, impact, consequences etc from the Ukraine Russia conflict
KHD
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#426

Post by KHD »

Del.Monte wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:52 pm I tried, but I can't be doing with interviews with lads wearing masks and moving like they are being pursued. Gave up after 2.5 mins.

Without watching the rest of it, I don't see how the 'reporter' is supposed to get the true views of people who are afraid of their leaders and don't want to risk being conscripted or sent to a gulag.
There was one lad at the start that was wearing a face mask. Anyway there was a mixture of views, one didn't care about it, one called it an illegal invasion, some didn't like Putin, Nato expansion seemed to be a common theme, and most thought the war was bad. There was an Irish fella interviewed in amongst the whole lot who's wife was Russian. I found it surprising as I wasn't expecting it, that is all.

He is a good reporter in my opinion, he is up at the front line mostly in the east at the coal face, not sitting in a hotel in Kiev like the bulk of the reporters are. If anyone wants to see what war is really like and not some sugar coated video game he is worth checking out.
KHD
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#427

Post by KHD »

Example, same is happening on the Ukrainian side but gives a good insight of what it feels like to have live artillery land a couple of meters away and that the next one could be the last thing you hear. Won't get this stuff on RTE :mrgreen:

knownunknown
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#428

Post by knownunknown »

KHD wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:27 am Sorry I did not mention Azov and Azov has nothing to do with the video Unknown. Your missing the point I am trying to make. No matter.

The Atlantic Council. :)
That article is from 2020, before the invasion and notes all the errors that the New York Times made in their hunt for nazis.

Sorry I missed the point but I couldn’t watch the video. I thought the point you were making was that the Russians were making out the Ukrainians to be nazis when in fact it was western media did it first.
Last edited by knownunknown on Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#429

Post by Hairy-Joe »

KHD wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:54 am Anyone else think that something is afoot in Belarus with the constant inbound movement of Russian troops and military hardware over the last few weeks ?

Is it purely a defensive ploy in case Ukraine decide to launch an offensive on the border of Belarus or a force that will be ready to intercept an potential attempt by Poland to come into Western Ukraine if things go belly up for Zelinsky in the East ? The Polish army is a highly trained force numbering i think to 70000 troops. Hard to tell at the moment what's going on there at the moment.

The Ukrainian situation in the east is becoming critical from what I can see. These regions have been heavily fortified which has slowed Russian advances to a crawl. It would be interesting to find out what way fortifications are like in the rest of the country. Also I note Ukraine's cement plants have not been targeted so far by the Russian missile strikes which is critical for Ukraine in continuing fortification efforts of its cities and towns.
Ya I think Belarus has something brewing. I'm open to correction but I think there are a few factions with vastly different priorities. You have Lukashenko trying to lick up to Putin as he needs Putin to stay in power. Hence the Russian troop movements. However, Lukashenko needs to keep his own army onside to avoid a coup and it was reported earlier in the war that the Belarusian army basically told Lukashenko that if he wants to stay in power, the Belarusian army will stay in Belarus. There's a LOT of support for the exiled opposition leaders both in the country and in the army. Basically, he's walking a tightrope.

On the cement plants, I'd put that down the leftover Soviet thinking. The Soviets see railways and cement factories as building blocks and they'll need them in their eyes. Also, their focus is on knocking out the power and gas to make the Ukrainians rise up against the NATO puppet government (in their eyes).
knownunknown
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#430

Post by knownunknown »

Del.Monte wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:45 pm Any attempt by Poland to intervene should lead to their immediate and permanent expulsion from NATO and, needless to say no intervention by NATO if Russia responded against Poland. Unlikely in any event - I hope.
There was talk of expelling Turkey not too long ago because of incursions on other NATO countries and it never happened. Turkey leave when they decide to leave, I’m sure the same applies to Poland.
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Del.Monte
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#431

Post by Del.Monte »

knownunknown wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:55 pm There was talk of expelling Turkey not too long ago because of incursions on other NATO countries and it never happened. Turkey leave when they decide to leave, I’m sure the same applies to Poland.
Agreed, but they won't leave of their own volition. However, it needs to be made clear to them that any independent action will result in their losing their protection under the NATO 'attack on one member is an attack on all members' protocol.
'no more blah blah blah'
knownunknown
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#432

Post by knownunknown »

Brittney Griner freed.
KHD
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#433

Post by KHD »

knownunknown wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:55 pm There was talk of expelling Turkey not too long ago because of incursions on other NATO countries and it never happened. Turkey leave when they decide to leave, I’m sure the same applies to Poland.
Turkey will never be expelled from NATO. Whatever about them occupying another EU / NATO country, It is too strategically important where it sits and the countries it borders. It also controls the Bosporus and the Dardanelles straights between the Mediterranean and the Black sea.

Erdogan in fairness is a very clever guy no matter what you may think of him politically. The way he can deal with the US, Nato and Russia without blinking an eyelid and still have a country is impressive.
knownunknown
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#434

Post by knownunknown »

KHD wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:30 pm Turkey will never be expelled from NATO. Whatever about them occupying another EU / NATO country, It is too strategically important where it sits and the countries it borders. It also controls the Bosporus and the Dardanelles straights between the Mediterranean and the Black sea.

Erdogan in fairness is a very clever guy no matter what you may think of him politically. The way he can deal with the US, Nato and Russia without blinking an eyelid and still have a country is impressive.
Just involves removing all opposition once you assume power :lol:
KHD
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#435

Post by KHD »

knownunknown wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:33 pm Just involves removing all opposition once you assume power :lol:
Absolutely, and he has done this to an extent that the Americans can't do anything to dispose of his rule there. They admitted that themselves. Erdogan's "fifth column" created after the coup attempt a few years ago.
KHD
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#436

Post by KHD »

knownunknown wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:05 pm Brittney Griner freed.
They basically swapped the equivalent of Carlos the Jackal for a basketball player. I think the US was hoping to include a US marine that was convicted of espionage in Russia. Good to see Brittney Griner released. I wonder what Russia have planned for Mr Bout.



FSB put him on a plane. I'd say he's shitting himself.

knownunknown
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#437

Post by knownunknown »

KHD wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:57 pm They basically swapped the equivalent of Carlos the Jackal for a basketball player. I think the US was hoping to include a US marine that was convicted of espionage in Russia. Good to see Brittney Griner released. I wonder what Russia have planned for Mr Bout.



FSB put him on a plane. I'd say he's shitting himself.

Great movie too
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#438

Post by isha »

The image of the Time magazine cover I downloaded directly from the Time site to make sure it is correct
TIM221226.POY-Final-Cover.jpg
TIM221226.POY-Final-Cover.jpg (289.09 KiB) Viewed 1198 times
The photo of Zelensky I downloaded from the Wikipedia page on him
Volodymyr_Zelensky_Official_portrait.jpg
Volodymyr_Zelensky_Official_portrait.jpg (144.11 KiB) Viewed 1198 times
This is something I have seen on Twitter, so I'm not the eagle-eyed one here. Why has Time given Zelensky blue eyes?
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#439

Post by isha »

What I get from what must be a deliberate artistic choice is that it is about conveying softening, inspiration, openness, transparency, glorification, angelic vibes. His eyes look watery now, emotional, heaven gazing. (Artistic critique ends.)
It's just odd. He has brown eyes, brown eyes are very nice. Why change them on Time magazine for his Person of the Year artwork? Do they generally do that? I checked back a bit. It looks to me that being Person of the Year is a bit of a curse. But Putin, Biden, Kamala and last year's winner Elon Musk, all have their own eye colour on the magazine cover.
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
knownunknown
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#440

Post by knownunknown »

isha wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:13 pm What I get from what must be a deliberate artistic choice is that it is about conveying softening, inspiration, openness, transparency, glorification, angelic vibes. His eyes look watery now, emotional, heaven gazing. (Artistic critique ends.)
It's just odd. He has brown eyes, brown eyes are very nice. Why change them on Time magazine for his Person of the Year artwork? Do they generally do that? I checked back a bit. It looks to me that being Person of the Year is a bit of a curse. But Putin, Biden, Kamala and last year's winner Elon Musk, all have their own eye colour on the magazine cover.
One of Ukraine’s colours is blue and judging by the artwork I’d guess they applied a blue filter which they decided to go with once they saw the results. My guess is nothing nefarious but it’s just an uneducated guess.

Edit on second thoughts they might not even be blue. Use your thumb and finger create a circle so you can see only his eyes and they look a lot more black. Could be a trick of your brain with so much blue in the photo. (If you have mspaint you can pick the colour and see exactly what it is)

In this following photo the squares A and B are the same colour.

Image
marhay70
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#441

Post by marhay70 »

isha wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:50 pm The image of the Time magazine cover I downloaded directly from the Time site to make sure it is correct

TIM221226.POY-Final-Cover.jpg

The photo of Zelensky I downloaded from the Wikipedia page on him

Volodymyr_Zelensky_Official_portrait.jpg

This is something I have seen on Twitter, so I'm not the eagle-eyed one here. Why has Time given Zelensky blue eyes?
The guy in the Time cover, just below Zelensky's right earlobe, looks very like a younger Putin. Is there some sort of Freudian messaging going on here. :?
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#442

Post by isha »

He is probably somebody famous, I don't pay enough attention to know important Ukrainian figures. I am thinking all the people around Zelensky are well known Ukrainian people (? but maybe they are other global figures?).

I accept KnownUnknowns reasoning - it's mad how colours work, how those two squares are the same colour. There does seem to be a blue filter as his beard is purplish. His eyes are possibly more black than blue, I can see that.

However I still have a small niggling feeling that a colourist would normally correct a person's global photo to their proper eye colour post filter, so it may be an error. And I do think there is iconography going on.

Not that that's unusual, but it is so prevalent as to be oppressive. We used to smile a little indulgently at Soviet era iconography on political posters - it's a whole art form. How were people impressed and conditioned by such obvious emotive aesthetics? We look back at our own iconography and think wtf were we on, the war promotion, the celestial filmstars, the heroic politicians. We think we are too sophisticated for that kind of stuff now, but we are drowning in it (in my opinion). If Marshall McLuhan was still around he would be a very busy man.
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
Setanta
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#443

Post by Setanta »

All these hundreds of billions of military equipment handed over,and similar spent by Russia,and it has descended into trench warfare around bakhmut


Think it's reaching an indicator of what the next few years of this conflict will become,as neither side is seemingly willing to escalate this war to nuclear to break the deadlock (thankfully),unless political pressure is applied from EU to Ukraine,or China to Russia,it's going to be a catastrophic mess by time it's over.....those refugees are not going to have a country to go back to
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
KHD
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#444

Post by KHD »

Setanta wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:06 pm All these hundreds of billions of military equipment handed over,and similar spent by Russia,and it has descended into trench warfare around bakhmut


Think it's reaching an indicator of what the next few years of this conflict will become,as neither side is seemingly willing to escalate this war to nuclear to break the deadlock (thankfully),unless political pressure is applied from EU to Ukraine,or China to Russia,it's going to be a catastrophic mess by time it's over.....those refugees are not going to have a country to go back to
Won't need to use Nuclear weapons. High end conventional weapons are all that's required. But there has been a change recently between the Yanks and the Russians that should concern us all. Biden signed a document recently that gives the option to use nuclear weapons not only in retaliation to a nuclear attack, but also to respond to a non-nuclear threat. Also that they now can initiate a first strike rather than the policy up to now of using nuclear as a deterrent only. The Russians will now do the same. So this will bring Nuclear war closer since both countries may consider using a first strike approach based on what the other side is up to.
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#445

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Setanta wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:06 pm All these hundreds of billions of military equipment handed over,and similar spent by Russia,and it has descended into trench warfare around bakhmut


Think it's reaching an indicator of what the next few years of this conflict will become,as neither side is seemingly willing to escalate this war to nuclear to break the deadlock (thankfully),unless political pressure is applied from EU to Ukraine,or China to Russia,it's going to be a catastrophic mess by time it's over.....those refugees are not going to have a country to go back to
Speaking as a self appointed 27 star armchair General, I'm wondering if Bakhmut is being used to try to suck in opposition forces to thin out other places for a counter strike elsewhere. Now, who is doing the sucking in of opposition forces is the question.......

From looking at it, it appears that Ukraine actions tries to minimize losses. Look at the way Kerson fell. Russia just throws the soldiers into the meat grinder with no thoughts of losses.
Setanta
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#446

Post by Setanta »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:47 am Speaking as a self appointed 27 star armchair General, I'm wondering if Bakhmut is being used to try to suck in opposition forces to thin out other places for a counter strike elsewhere. Now, who is doing the sucking in of opposition forces is the question.......

From looking at it, it appears that Ukraine actions tries to minimize losses. Look at the way Kerson fell. Russia just throws the soldiers into the meat grinder with no thoughts of losses.
It's all very intriguing,it seemingly only place Russia pouring resources into,as opposed to digging in for the winter

It's two armies at deadlock/stalemate position,at such a stage,peace talks are imperative imo
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#447

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Setanta wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:14 am It's all very intriguing,it seemingly only place Russia pouring resources into,as opposed to digging in for the winter

It's two armies at deadlock/stalemate position,at such a stage,peace talks are imperative imo
Ya, is Russia trying to suck in Ukrainian forces so that Russia can launch an offensive (along with Belarusian forces) through Belarus on Kyiv? I wouldn't be surprised if that was their thinking.
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#448

Post by CelticRambler »

Too good to pass up. Following the Luka-Putin love-in yesterday (translation may not be entirely accurate :mrgreen: )

(warning: contains strong language, lots [and lots])

knownunknown
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#449

Post by knownunknown »

Ukraine to receive patriot SAM battery worth upwards of 1billion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... ne-russia/
KHD
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#450

Post by KHD »

knownunknown wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:39 pm Ukraine to receive patriot SAM battery worth upwards of 1billion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... ne-russia/
This is interesting news on a couple of fronts. First off, from what I've been reading about this system, it consists of a radar, a control station and 8 launchers that can hold 4 missiles each. Each missile costs 4 million dollars, so when they say a billion, even if this is a billion dollars worth of missiles, this equates to 250 missiles. It could be a very short lived system if the Russians decide to saturate it with a mixture of old decoy missiles and real missiles, which they have been doing recently to help locate AD systems which are then taken out by their Mig 31s out of Belarus. It takes 90 personnel to operate it apparently and is a complex system that takes months to train up personnel on it. Unless the Americans already have Ukrainians trained up on it and are just not saying publicly.

My own view is that it will not make much difference as Ukraine is a big country and it is only getting one system, I suspect it will be installed around Kiev. Ukraine has a tendency to burn through quiet quickly the stocks they receive from the west on any system, there is a worldwide shortage of Patriot missiles so will be interesting to see how this works out.

I would think the Russian's will zero in on this system and destroy it as quickly as possible. It will be like a big red flag for them. It is a risky move by the Americans, what happens if the Russians destroy this system ? The prestige of the system could potentially go down the tubes. I wonder are there people in the Pentagon shaking their heads right now over this move.

Some links to the above

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022 ... ne/363042/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/ ... or-ukraine

And a video of a Russian propogandist explaining how the system works ( Even though he's a former Americian marine )

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