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Anyone still glued to this?

News, geopolitics, impact, consequences etc from the Ukraine Russia conflict
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#551

Post by Hairy-Joe »

I think Russia couldn't accept that all the former Warsaw Pack countries in Europe saw the benefit of the EU and the freedom it brought. They hadn't a notion of going back.

Russia's actions to Georgia, Chechnya, Crimea, Moldova etc pushed the Eastern Europe countries (Latvia Estonia Lithuania Poland etc) more towards NATO for protection. They saw Russia start the same push for "oppression of ethnic Russians" in these countries (pushed by RT) as the start of the Russian play that they did in Georgia, Moldova, Chechnya, etc.
Setanta
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#552

Post by Setanta »

isha wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:25 pm I can't enumerate them off hand but over the past year I have seen various reports of attempted negotiations including from Russia. I remember the pre war requests for NATO not to expand so close to Russia. (This would be similar to America not wanting a Russian presence in say Mexico.) Even a few days ago the former Israeli PM Naftali Benett (about whom I know zero) says he was involved in a peace negotiation with Ukraine and Russia which was scuppered by the US. So on the whole I don't believe this statement by you.
Aye,but rocking across the border committing war crimes against civilians isn't the solution to failed negotiations..... Ukraine with an ongoing insurgency would not been allowed into NATO,and Russia could have kept it ticking over indefinitely



Russia have utterly failed to take bakhmut and should been captured 3 weeks ago, relatively easily after that salt mine town withdrawal.....I think they are in a dogfight and the pressure/ambition of its leadership to take more ground will leave it weakened to counter attacks

Up to recently I'd have taught Russia held somewhat of an upper hand,but their stragedy of pouring so much resources into what is a supply line point to Ukraine front is a folly of unimaginable foolishness,they could strike that railway/infrastructure with ease with rockets and cripple it,their drive to capture it is what I see, driven mostly by ego of its general's to snap back at Wagner group,and egos will tend to override logic,which is endpoint for rational/calculated decision,and a mutiny shouldn't be ruled out in these circumstances....

the stories leaked of the slaughter about bakhmut will be talked on for generations like balkens are spoke about nowadays




Edit: I suspect it will end in a DMZ of circa 100km (or Donbass regions) between Russia and NATO/Ukraine potentially patrolled by UN peacekeepers
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
KHD
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#553

Post by KHD »

Post to end the night for me. Well worth a listen, Colonel MacGregor's latest interview on Ukraine. A previous poster tried to put a slur on this man that he is somehow a Russian propagandist, this is nonsense and nothing could be further from the truth, a real American and respected military figure. This man has been through wars and knows the human cost involved in war and how pointless war is in terms of loss of life and the destruction of a country and its people. He is also realist and understands his enemy, instead of what I see currently which is based mostly on cliques, lack of any sort of historical or current understanding of the enemy and the hysterical and frankly childish rubbish I'm both reading and listening to on the Internet, from our political leaders and news outlets. There are two wars being waged in Ukraine, one is the online war that has little basis in reality and the other is what is actually happening on the ground where people either ignore through wilful ignorance or cannot accept reality. As Albert Einstein said "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones" We are moving dangerously close to this point and both America and Russia need to come together and start talking to each other, without preconditions and get to a situation where this can be stopped and de-escalated, for the sake of the planet. Good night.

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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#554

Post by isha »

Way back in September 2022 on page 4 of this thread we were talking about the blowing up of the Nord stream pipelines.

I don't know who did it for sure but a good motive for the US to do it was to blow up the chances of Europe being reliant on Russian gas. I think one underlying motivation for promoting this whole terrible situation was to nip in the bud closer contact and inter-reliance between Europe and Russia.

Anyway Seymour Hersch says America blew up the pipeline's.

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how ... ord-stream

Last June, the Navy divers, operating under the cover of a widely publicized mid-summer NATO exercise known as BALTOPS 22, planted the remotely triggered explosives that, three months later, destroyed three of the four Nord Stream pipelines, according to a source with direct knowledge of the operational planning.

Two of the pipelines, which were known collectively as Nord Stream 1, had been providing Germany and much of Western Europe with cheap Russian natural gas for more than a decade. A second pair of pipelines, called Nord Stream 2, had been built but were not yet operational. Now, with Russian troops massing on the Ukrainian border and the bloodiest war in Europe since 1945 looming, President Joseph Biden saw the pipelines as a vehicle for Vladimir Putin to weaponize natural gas for his political and territorial ambitions.

Asked for comment, Adrienne Watson, a White House spokesperson, said in an email, “This is false and complete fiction.” Tammy Thorp, a spokesperson for the Central Intelligence Agency, similarly wrote: “This claim is completely and utterly false.”

Biden’s decision to sabotage the pipelines came after more than nine months of highly secret back and forth debate inside Washington’s national security community about how to best achieve that goal. For much of that time, the issue was not whether to do the mission, but how to get it done with no overt clue as to who was responsible.

There was a vital bureaucratic reason for relying on the graduates of the center’s hardcore diving school in Panama City. The divers were Navy only, and not members of America’s Special Operations Command, whose covert operations must be reported to Congress and briefed in advance to the Senate and House leadership—the so-called Gang of Eight. The Biden Administration was doing everything possible to avoid leaks as the planning took place late in 2021 and into the first months of 2022.

President Biden and his foreign policy team—National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan, Secretary of State Tony Blinken, and Victoria Nuland, the Undersecretary of State for Policy—had been vocal and consistent in their hostility to the two pipelines, which ran side by side for 750 miles under the Baltic Sea from two different ports in northeastern Russia near the Estonian border, passing close to the Danish island of Bornholm before ending in northern Germany.

The direct route, which bypassed any need to transit Ukraine, had been a boon for the German economy, which enjoyed an abundance of cheap Russian natural gas—enough to run its factories and heat its homes while enabling German distributors to sell excess gas, at a profit, throughout Western Europe. Action that could be traced to the administration would violate US promises to minimize direct conflict with Russia. Secrecy was essential.
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
kadman
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#555

Post by kadman »

US interests have always been at the forefront of the decision making in the US policy for whats best for them, and the people, planet, and human interests come in way down the list. History tells us this even with the most recent wars seen on the planet.
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#556

Post by Hairy-Joe »

The ISW is saying the initiative is with Russia and it's spring campaign has started

https://understandingwar.org/background ... ary-8-2023
Setanta
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#557

Post by Setanta »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:38 am The ISW is saying the initiative is with Russia and it's spring campaign has started

https://understandingwar.org/background ... ary-8-2023
Russia preparing for a long war, oligarchs prepare to further enrich emselves,

Putin TBF,is no fool,when comes to keeping his own country in check/follow him.....still think Ukraine needs outside troops on the ground,but noone is willing to step into the ring with em it seems
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
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Del.Monte
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#558

Post by Del.Monte »

The instant any country is stupid enough to put its forces in on the ground, air or sea and that's the end of us all. As it is the West is playing with fire by contemplating supplying jet fighters. It really is approaching a point where Russia's military are going to say enough is enough and either Putin or his successor are going to be goaded into doing something catastrophic. Where's the UN? :roll:
'no more blah blah blah'
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#559

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Ya, there's various reports of Putin trying to transition the economy to a wartime footing. If successful, this could drag into winter 2024....

Putin is doing a lot of sabre rattling but every time he rattled it with a threat, he never followed up on the threats. The West is at this stage going "ya whatever" when Putin sabre rattles. The boy who cried wolf comes to mind. Also, there's a lot of West help with weapons, intelligence, wargames, etc without them putting boots on the ground.
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#560

Post by Hairy-Joe »

The UN is gone the way of the League of Nations before WW2
kadman
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#561

Post by kadman »

US has never taken any guidance from the UN, let alone abide by any of their resolutions......unless of course it suited american interests.
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#562

Post by Hairy-Joe »

kadman wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:34 pm US has never taken any guidance from the UN, let alone abide by any of their resolutions......unless of course it suited american interests.
So true. Palestine comes to mind
knownunknown
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#563

Post by knownunknown »

isha wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:46 am Way back in September 2022 on page 4 of this thread we were talking about the blowing up of the Nord stream pipelines.

I don't know who did it for sure but a good motive for the US to do it was to blow up the chances of Europe being reliant on Russian gas. I think one underlying motivation for promoting this whole terrible situation was to nip in the bud closer contact and inter-reliance between Europe and Russia.

Anyway Seymour Hersch says America blew up the pipeline's.

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how ... ord-stream
Very detailed and not yet denied by the powers that be, Hersh is a Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist.
Mirabeau
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#564

Post by Mirabeau »

knownunknown wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:19 am Very detailed and not yet denied by the powers that be, Hersh is a Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist.
I'd take anything that yoke says with a pinch of salt.
CelticRambler
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#565

Post by CelticRambler »

knownunknown wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:19 am ... Hersh is a Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist.
This kind of thing really annoys me, when it's offered up as some kind of validation for someone's expertise. Yerman won his Pulitzer Prize more than fifty years ago, when he was in the prime of his young adulthood. Now he's an old codger and I doubt very much that his "investigative" journalism is any more rigourous or actively researched than any one else with access to the internet and time to hang out with "sources". Is he right in this case? Maybe. Or maybe not. It seems that, in offering up a detailed explanation, he's allowed others to demonstrate that those same details are somewhat shaky.

The situation with the bould Colonel is the same. Yes, he was a Colonel in the US Army - but he quit twenty years ago, having been three times passed over for promotion. He slunk away into academic obscurity and had to wait for the Second Coming of the Messiah to the White House before getting some fresh attention. Again, he was passed over for a significant role (US Ambassador to Germany) before finally landing a job as a White House Advisor. His adoring fans, who believe in his every false prophecy despite each one going the way of the repeated Great Redemption deadlines, pronouce this like as and ultimate testatment to his infallibility, quietly glossing over the fact that he was an advisor to an acting secretary and held the job for a mind-blowing eight weeks. Sure, that's one week longer than Liz Truss was Prime Minister, but at least she can legitimately claim to have been Top Dog for those seven week. McGregor was just a flea on the back of one of Trump's poodles. :roll:
knownunknown
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#566

Post by knownunknown »

Just some guy who won some award 50 years ago.
  • 1969: George Polk Special Award (for his My Lai reporting)[90]
  • 1970: Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting[91]
  • 1973: George Polk Award for Investigative Reporting;[92] Scripps-Howard Public Service Award[93]
  • 1974: George Polk Award for National Reporting[94]
  • 1975: Sidney Hilman Award[95]
  • 1981: George Polk Award for National Reporting[96]
  • 1983: National Book Critics Circle Award and Los Angeles Times Book Prize for The Price of Power: Kissinger in the Nixon White House[97]
  • 2003: National Magazine Award for Public Interest for his articles "Lunch with the Chairman", "Selective Intelligence", and "The Stovepipe"[98]
  • 2004: Following Hersh's 2004 articles in the New Yorker magazine exposing the Abu Ghraib scandal: National Magazine Award for Public Interest, Overseas Press Club Award, National Press Foundation's Kiplinger Distinguished Contributions to Journalism Award, and his fifth George Polk Award[99][100]
  • 2005: Ridenhour prize in the category Ridenhour courage prize[101]
  • 2005: American Library Association, Notable Book Council Award for Chain of Command: The Road from 9/11 to Abu Ghraib. HarperCollins. [102]
  • 2017: Sam Adams Award for Integrity
Of course the people currently slating him are the ones that believe that Russia blew up their own pipeline. :lol:
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#567

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Just to show how old awards do not reflect current performance, here's the awards Gemma O'Doherty won, yes the right wing "firebrand" (taken from Wikipedia)

2000 ESB National Media Awards for "Print Campaigning and Social Issues".[77]
2011 GlaxoSmithKline Irish Medical Media Awards for "Consumer Print Media".[78]
2011 International Journalism Festival Award for "Best Travel Writing".[124]
2018 Féile na Laoch (County Cork) as a "hero of Irish storytelling".[125]
CelticRambler
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#568

Post by CelticRambler »

knownunknown wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 3:48 pm Just some guy who won some award 50 years ago.
  • 1969: George Polk Special Award (for his My Lai reporting)[90]
  • 1970: Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting[91]
  • 1973: George Polk Award for Investigative Reporting;[92] Scripps-Howard Public Service Award[93]
  • 1974: George Polk Award for National Reporting[94]
  • 1975: Sidney Hilman Award[95]
  • 1981: George Polk Award for National Reporting[96]
  • 1983: National Book Critics Circle Award and Los Angeles Times Book Prize for The Price of Power: Kissinger in the Nixon White House[97]
  • 2003: National Magazine Award for Public Interest for his articles "Lunch with the Chairman", "Selective Intelligence", and "The Stovepipe"[98]
  • 2004: Following Hersh's 2004 articles in the New Yorker magazine exposing the Abu Ghraib scandal: National Magazine Award for Public Interest, Overseas Press Club Award, National Press Foundation's Kiplinger Distinguished Contributions to Journalism Award, and his fifth George Polk Award[99][100]
  • 2005: Ridenhour prize in the category Ridenhour courage prize[101]
  • 2005: American Library Association, Notable Book Council Award for Chain of Command: The Road from 9/11 to Abu Ghraib. HarperCollins. [102]
  • 2017: Sam Adams Award for Integrity
Of course the people currently slating him are the ones that believe that Russia blew up their own pipeline. :lol:
And yet out of all those, you chose to refer only to the one he was awarded for work done more than fifty years ago. Why is that? :?:
knownunknown
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#569

Post by knownunknown »

Hairy-Joe wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:15 pm Just to show how old awards do not reflect current performance, here's the awards Gemma O'Doherty won, yes the right wing "firebrand" (taken from Wikipedia)

2000 ESB National Media Awards for "Print Campaigning and Social Issues".[77]
2011 GlaxoSmithKline Irish Medical Media Awards for "Consumer Print Media".[78]
2011 International Journalism Festival Award for "Best Travel Writing".[124]
2018 Féile na Laoch (County Cork) as a "hero of Irish storytelling".[125]
“Well he could be just as bad as this person… “….come on you can do better.

So far he’s been compared to Trump, Colonel mc Gregor and Gemma o Doherty. He gave a very detailed account of what happened. The more details given the easier a story is to falsify. (That’s just good science Joe).

Not only had the US good motive to destroy it, they are actually on record several times threatening to do so(Nuland, Blinken and Biden).

The Swedish and Germans declined to share information with the rest of NATO following the completion of their investigation… what is it do you think that they found?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sw ... 022-10-14/

If it ever came out that the US had actually done it, this gives Russia a free hand to return in kind and I suspect this is what the media are trying to avoid by acting as senile as the man who made the decision.
knownunknown
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#570

Post by knownunknown »

CelticRambler wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:26 pm And yet out of all those, you chose to refer only to the one he was awarded for work done more than fifty years ago. Why is that? :?:
Irrelevant. Everyone has heard of a Pulitzer Prize. The elephant in the room is who destroyed the nordstream pipeline. This person investigated it, a person who has skills in investigating things, a person without bias who’s not described by anyone as a right wing loon or some other guff. As much as the media would like to paint this guy as Gemma o Doherty to shut him up, he’s just not like that.
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isha
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#571

Post by isha »

Ah God, it brings me back to the days when all the smart people told us the vaccine was 100% effective and stopped the virus in its tracks and anyone who said otherwise (even if they had science prizes etc) was a contemptible loon. Good times. 😉
Thinking out loud, and trying to be occasionally less wrong...
knownunknown
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#572

Post by knownunknown »

This is quite a critique of Hersh’s account from a Washington post journalist. https://oalexanderdk.substack.com/p/blo ... ershs-pipe

Some parts are less convincing then others with the type of language he uses, ‘I just don’t think’, type stuff.

I’m not a military guy so hopefully col. mcgregor can do a review of both pieces :D
Setanta
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#573

Post by Setanta »

Dunno much about this Hersh bloke,but surely it's obvious,that the yanks were/would be instrumental involved in blowing up that pipe

They have the mean,motive and opportunity to it ......it's a bugbear of US forgien policy with over 40 years....Russia supplying gas to allies of it......denials smell of when Ukraine kept denying it's anti missle system shot down a rocket and it spun off into Poland killing two
"Celtic jerseys are not for second best, they don't shrink to fit inferior players." - Jock Stein
Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#574

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Anyway, back to the story on the ground.

Wagner having trouble recruiting.

Hairy-Joe
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Re: Anyone still glued to this?

#575

Post by Hairy-Joe »

Things not going all Russia's way. Potentially big tank losses.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ru ... 023-02-10/
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