Vaccine passports could create 'two-tier society'

[GrowlerG]

So stop vaccines and let everyone mix freely no restrictions. Xmas 2020 all over. Because we didn't learn enough from that, we need to repeat the lesson until we get it.

[316670]

So stop vaccines and let everyone mix freely no restrictions. Xmas 2020 all over. Because we didn't learn enough from that, we need to repeat the lesson until we get it.

Like the multiple lock downs worked so well.
The penny is dropping faster for some and not at all for others it would seem, we can only hope it happens for them eventually.

MOD NOTE: Removed article image as it has been demonstrably discredited.

[knownunknown]

That a bit like saying what's the point of taking medicine if there will be some new illness next week that it doesn't work with .

Well at first we were told that the vaccinated couldn't spread the virus. Now things have changed I think we should reconsider this 'two tier society'.

What is the point?

If a new vaccine emerges that actually stops you getting the virus then fair enough let's start this whole thing again.

What is the point in only allowing vaccinated into dine indoors?

Is it to peer pressure everyone to get the vaccine or perhaps it's to create a 'safe' space that is free of the virus?

[GrowlerG]

Well at first we were told that the vaccinated couldn't spread the virus. Now things have changed I think we should reconsider this 'two tier society'.....

Since you don't believe any of it. Nothing has changed for you at all.

[knownunknown]

Since you don't believe any of it. Nothing has changed for you at all.

What are you talking about?

[GrowlerG]

Like the multiple lock downs worked so well.
The penny is dropping faster for some and not at all for others it would seem, we can only hope it happens for them eventually.

I would suggest fact checking what you post. But I think you're expecting your target audience to be gullible, and not do that. Kinda condescending to them.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ci-hydrox/

[knownunknown]

I would suggest fact checking what you post. But I think you're expecting your target audience to be gullible, and not do that. Kinda condescending to them.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ci-hydrox/

The only thing coming across condescending here is you. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Could you paraphrase it or at least answer the questions I originally posed so we can get this 'conversation' flowing. Otherwise I'm off to bed.

[GrowlerG]

What are you talking about?

No what are you talking about...

[knownunknown]

No what are you talking about...

If you didn't know why didn't you ask me in the first place instead of saying things like "Since you don't believe any of it. Nothing has changed for you at all."

Now that I ask you what you mean you retort like a infant would.

Look if you don't want to challenge any of my points that's fine.

[GrowlerG]

The only thing coming across condescending here is you. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Could you paraphrase it or at least answer the questions I originally posed so we can get this 'conversation' flowing. Otherwise I'm off to bed.

You didn't ask any questions.

You just posted a random unrelated image of a story. The source of which I doubt you'd want to be associated with.

[schmittel]

Since you don't believe any of it. Nothing has changed for you at all.

Things have definitely changed for me. 6 months ago I believed the vaccines were 80/90% effective against contracting Covid and I was very pro taking the vaccine.

Now I am told the vaccines are effective at keeping you out of hospital if you do get Covid and “mitigating” the spread of it I am not pro at all.

[knownunknown]

Things have definitely changed for me. 6 months ago I believed the vaccines were 80/90% effective against contracting Covid and I was very pro taking the vaccine.

Now I am told the vaccines are effective at keeping you out of hospital if you do get Covid and “mitigating” the spread of it I am not pro at all.

I was also the same until the new data about the delta variant came out including the leak from the CDC last week. Break-through infections spread just as much.

This new study from the Imperial College London suggests the vaccinated are only 3 times less likely to test positive for the covid19.

Page 2 of this study.

Prevalence among those who reported being unvaccinated was three-fold higher than those who reported being fully vaccinated. However, in round 13, 44% of infections occurred in fully vaccinated individuals, reflecting imperfect vaccine effectiveness against infection despite high overall levels of vaccination.

[GrowlerG]

If you didn't know why didn't you ask me in the first place instead of saying things like "Since you don't believe any of it. Nothing has changed for you at all."

Now that I ask you what you mean you retort like a infant would.

Look if you don't want to challenge any of my points that's fine.

I already did answer you twice.

I'm not sure what more you are looking for. Maybe you think how vaccines and viruses work has changed. I don't think that's true.

[GrowlerG]

Things have definitely changed for me. 6 months ago I believed the vaccines were 80/90% effective against contracting Covid and I was very pro taking the vaccine.

Now I am told the vaccines are effective at keeping you out of hospital if you do get Covid and “mitigating” the spread of it I am not pro at all.

So even then with the old strain you knew if you are in that 10-20% you could still get the virus.

[knownunknown]

I already did answer you twice.

I'm not sure what more you are looking for. Maybe you think how vaccines and viruses work has changed. I don't think that's true.

It seems you're just looking for a fight here. When you bring some ammunition to this argument (a point that challenges anything I initially said) I'll respond in kind. Until then I'm just going to ignore your underhanded insults. Quite honestly I think you may have me mixed up with someone else. Have a good night.

[GrowlerG]

I was also the same until the new data about the delta variant came out including the leak from the CDC last week. Break-through infections spread just as much.

This new study from the Imperial College London suggests the vaccinated are only 3 times less likely to test positive for the covid19.

Page 2 of this study.

That means it's still effective just less effective with the new strain.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/englis ... 021-08-03/

[schmittel]

So even then with the old strain you knew if you are in that 10-20% you could still get the virus.

Yes, but it was not just about me. A vaccine that is 80/90% effective against contracting the virus combined with a high vaccine uptake would get us to herd immunity quite quickly.

This mitigates the transmission scenario is very different.

[GrowlerG]

It seems you're just looking for a fight here. When you bring some ammunition to this argument (a point that challenges anything I initially said) I'll respond in kind. Until then I'm just going to ignore your underhanded insults. Quite honestly I think you may have me mixed up with someone else. Have a good night.

I'll take that as a yes.

[GrowlerG]

Yes, but it was not just about me. A vaccine that is 80/90% effective against contracting the virus combined with a high vaccine uptake would get us to herd immunity quite quickly.

This mitigates the transmission scenario is very different.

Well it was getting us there with the old strains.

It's still better than when we had no vaccines.

[knownunknown]

That means it's still effective just less effective with the new strain.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/englis ... 021-08-03/

Every little helps is fine when it comes to masks and washing hands and social distancing but when we are socially pressuring people to put chemicals into their bodies that could cause serious complications that may lead to death (1/200,000 or whatever the chance may be) we need to be a bit more vigilent about the effectiveness of these chemicals.

I was never worried on a personal level about getting the virus, but I can understand that a lot of people would be. If 45% of vaccinated people could contract covid19 like the ICL report suggests then herd immunity is not achieveable. I'm not so happy to take this vaccine if it was just for me. The altruistic part is what got me to get the vaccine last month.

I think the government could compel us to take the vaccine to stop us contracting a viralent disease and spreading it(provided it was effective enough), but it couldn't compel us to take a vaccine that would only help only ourselves (e.g. an anti-cancer one).

In this case I don't think the vaccine is effective enough and there are a lot of official reports coming out in just the last week or two stating as such.

So while you argue it is still effective just less effective this is true on a personal level and how the disease affects me, but on a society level things have changed drastically. What is the point now in having these places just for the vaccinated when 45% of them could potentially have the virus? Would someone who was immuno-compromised be happy to risk that setting?

[GrowlerG]

Rome wasn't built in a day. This was not an unexpected turn of events. So far they reckon a booster gets back to higher percentages. In the meanwhile we will have to consider going back a step to move forward. It's not time to just give up. It's not easy for sure.

[GrowlerG]

...What is the point now in having these places just for the vaccinated when 45% of them could potentially have the virus? Would someone who was immuno-compromised be happy to risk that setting?

It's gone from perhaps 20% to 45%. It was never risk free.

But you are right things have changed. But a place with only vaccinated is lower risk than a plane with only unvaccinated.

Whats the alternative?

[knownunknown]

It's gone from perhaps 20% to 45%. It was never risk free.

But you are right things have changed. But a place with only vaccinated is lower risk than a plane with only unvaccinated.

Whats the alternative?

Well the big difference is now that the vaccinated people can also spread the disease with this delta variants that didn't happen before.

“High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with delta can transmit the virus"

Leaked by the CDC last week. I just don't see the point of mandating vaccinations for indoor dining and such now that we have this new information about the delta variant. It all seems to be for nothing.

[GrowlerG]

Well the big difference is now that the vaccinated people can also spread the disease with this delta variants that didn't happen before...

That's not true. It did happen before. You've already stated above that vaccines were never 100% successful even with previous strains.

Why use hand sanitizer etc. A vaccine doesn't sanitize what you touch, or who you touch.

[GrowlerG]

...Leaked by the CDC last week. I just don't see the point of mandating vaccinations for indoor dining and such now that we have this new information about the delta variant. It all seems to be for nothing.

I would say it's inaccurately worded. But it's common knowledge that vaccinated can still spread a virus. Long before the New variant appeared.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2021 ... d-covid-19