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Israel and Palestine

The burning issues of the day
ceannairceach
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2025 3:48 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2101

Post by ceannairceach »

AnFearRéabhlóideach wrote: Wed Sep 24, 2025 6:03 pm Israel is meaningless while Hamas hold the hostages. That is a pretty ludicrous statement to make. You do realise that low level insurgency is pretty much guaranteed in Gaza so long as the IDF continues to relentlessly nuke Gaza and starve and murder the civilian Palestinian population of Gaza. You couldn't ask for a better recruitment campaign for Hamas than the past 2 years of chaos and destruction.

The population of Gaza before this all began was 2.1 million. Hamas were estimated to have between 20000-25000 fighters about 1% of the population. Now up to 200,000 Palestinians in Gaza may have been killed or injured as the IDF itself has admitted over the past 2 years. That's 10% of the population killed or wounded. For every 1 Hamas fighter they may have killed, they will have probably radicalised a much larger number of Palestinians by killing thousands of civilians unrelated to Hamas. There is no logic to rooting out Hamas to the last man, a new head will grow from the Hydra.

Furthermore, the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto did not simply let the Nazis frogmarch them off to the death camps when they realised the complete insanity and intolerance of the regime they were up against. They fought back and died rather than be taken alive. The Palestinians who were watery about Hamas before will be like Hamas were right, there in no negotiating with a terrorist regime intent on slaughtering us. That's what the Zionist government is doing with this barbaric slaughter, making another generation of fanatics. The needless mass murder and brutal starvation will only do harm to future generations of Israelis down the road.

Smotrich and Netyenyahoo can bleat all they want that they'll get 'voluntary migration' or ethnically cleanse the Gazans. That logic flows counter to every resistance movement in history. The harder you hit the people, the more obstinate and intolerant the resistance becomes. The moderates become extremists. The Gazans will dig in and keep going because what's the alternative? It's them against a world that doesn't care. All Netyenyahoo and Smotrich are doing prolonging this slaughter is creating even larger bodies of evidence of how inhumane, intolerant and cruel the current Zionist regime is. All Netyenyahoo is ensuring is that he has cemented his place among the genocidal despots, like Idi Amin or Pol Pot. .
Yeah after 12 years of brutality culminating in an ACTUAL genocide, the European Jewish population went on a massive campaign of gang raping German women and killing wee Aryan babies.

Oh wait …..
AnFearRéabhlóideach
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2025 8:36 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2102

Post by AnFearRéabhlóideach »

ceannairceach wrote: Wed Sep 24, 2025 7:09 pm Yeah after 12 years of brutality culminating in an ACTUAL genocide, the European Jewish population went on a massive campaign of gang raping German women and killing wee Aryan babies.

Oh wait …..
All those claims of the beheaded babies and gang rapes that 'allegedly' occurred on October 7th were outed as baseless Hasbara propaganda, scaremongering and complete fabrications by dubious sources long ago.

Still, over 2 years on, we have some geniuses pretending that was reality so they can continue to justify mass murder of civilians in Gaza. Pray tell why you are alluding to those lies right now dear Ceannairceach?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/ ... -hamas-war

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024 ... eli-claims

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_b ... ading_hoax

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/al ... tor-admits
Senator Donie Cassidy, Seanad Debate, 10th April 2008

"Prices are now nearing the bottom end........Now is the right time to buy."
ceannairceach
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2025 3:48 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2103

Post by ceannairceach »

AnFearRéabhlóideach
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2025 8:36 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2104

Post by AnFearRéabhlóideach »

ceannairceach wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 8:38 am https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/08/midd ... latam-intl

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/worl ... lence.html


But let your antisemitism ignore what your heroes did.
Right so, another fanciful antisemitism claim. Let's be clear, I think the Jews who stood up against or survived the Holocaust are equally admirable for their courage in the face of Nazi state terror, in the same way that the Palestinians right now are to be admired for standing up or surviving the genocide against them by Zionist state terror. Those Jews, Slavs and other races, the millions murdered by Nazism during WW2 lives should never be forgotten, the same as the lives or the thousands of Palestinian Muslims and Christians should be remembered when the genocide in Gaza eventually ends. A life is a life.

As for your first insinuation in the first link, yes that's a war crime by Hamas. It should be punished. It should be punished exactly the same as the systemic torture by Israeli security forces for decades in their prisons against thousands of innocent Palestinians who have been interned without trial. Many have been beaten, tortured and sexually abused, this is nothing new, it's been happening for a long time now. Should those Israeli sexual abusers and torturers not equally be punished for those crimes?

You changed tack too. The beheaded babies claim went out the window very rapid. The second link you post is based on lies and has been discredited utterly since. Why are you still posting that so Ceannairceach?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cqldpyn5ng6o

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-08-24/ ... /105652336

https://theintercept.com/2024/08/09/isr ... e-torture/

https://www.btselem.org/statistics/deta ... _prisoners

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti ... li_custody
Senator Donie Cassidy, Seanad Debate, 10th April 2008

"Prices are now nearing the bottom end........Now is the right time to buy."
schmittel
Verified Username
Posts: 1274
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:15 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2105

Post by schmittel »

Interesting development with the flotilla. Both Spain and Italy have said they will send naval ships to help the boats:
Mr Sanchez told a press conference in New York, where he has been attending the UN General Assembly, that the citizens of 45 countries were on board to deliver food to the population of Gaza and express solidarity with their suffering.

"The government of Spain insists that international law be respected and that the right of our citizens should be respected to sail through the Mediterranean in safe conditions," he said.

"Tomorrow (Thursday) we will dispatch a naval vessel from Cartagena with all necessary resources in case it was necessary to assist the flotilla and carry out a rescue operation."
What does "assist the flotilla" mean? Presumably that means the mere presence of Spanish and Italian naval ships will deter any more drone attacks on the flotilla. Situation would get very messy indeed if Israel carried on attacking the flotilla.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2025/0925 ... illa-gaza/
User avatar
NattyO
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2025 8:38 am

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2106

Post by NattyO »

schmittel wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 10:03 am Interesting development with the flotilla. Both Spain and Italy have said they will send naval ships to help the boats:



What does "assist the flotilla" mean? Presumably that means the mere presence of Spanish and Italian naval ships will deter any more drone attacks on the flotilla. Situation would get very messy indeed if Israel carried on attacking the flotilla.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2025/0925 ... illa-gaza/
Could get interesting - considering the USS Liberty incident, I'm not sure the presence of Spanish and Italian ships would scare the Israelis that much (though I have to say I'm a bit dubious about some of the reported attacks on flotilla ships).
ceannairceach
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2025 3:48 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2107

Post by ceannairceach »

AnFearRéabhlóideach wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 9:20 am Right so, another fanciful antisemitism claim. Let's be clear, I think the Jews who stood up against or survived the Holocaust are equally admirable for their courage in the face of Nazi state terror, in the same way that the Palestinians right now are to be admired for standing up or surviving the genocide against them by Zionist state terror. Those Jews, Slavs and other races, the millions murdered by Nazism during WW2 lives should never be forgotten, the same as the lives or the thousands of Palestinian Muslims and Christians should be remembered when the genocide in Gaza eventually ends. A life is a life.

As for your first insinuation in the first link, yes that's a war crime by Hamas. It should be punished. It should be punished exactly the same as the systemic torture by Israeli security forces for decades in their prisons against thousands of innocent Palestinians who have been interned without trial. Many have been beaten, tortured and sexually abused, this is nothing new, it's been happening for a long time now. Should those Israeli sexual abusers and torturers not equally be punished for those crimes?

You changed tack too. The beheaded babies claim went out the window very rapid. The second link you post is based on lies and has been discredited utterly since. Why are you still posting that so Ceannairceach?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cqldpyn5ng6o

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-08-24/ ... /105652336

https://theintercept.com/2024/08/09/isr ... e-torture/

https://www.btselem.org/statistics/deta ... _prisoners

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti ... li_custody
Post up a quote where I say about beheading babies would you ? There’s a good wee chap.
AnFearRéabhlóideach
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2025 8:36 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2108

Post by AnFearRéabhlóideach »

ceannairceach wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 10:22 am Post up a quote where I say about beheading babies would you ? There’s a good wee chap.
It's your method of operation. Here's example A. You made the insinuation in the following post:
ceannairceach wrote: Wed Sep 24, 2025 7:09 pm Yeah after 12 years of brutality culminating in an ACTUAL genocide, the European Jewish population went on a massive campaign of gang raping German women and killing wee Aryan babies.

Oh wait …..
You don't deny or claim anything concrete. Instead you insinuate. You insinuate that Hamas gangraped Israeli women en masse on October 7th or Hamas killed wee Israeli babies indirectly with the context of the post above. You leave it up to other people's imaginations to do the rest. It's really quite an insidious way to try and spread a propaganda line. It also gives you this plausible deniability line of, "I never said that".

You can pretend otherwise, but really that's what you're trying to sell to the readers here. You remind me so much of a Hasbara propaganda merchant that used to inhabit politics.ie before it's recent untimely demise. That's just my little insinuation, Ceannairceach.
Senator Donie Cassidy, Seanad Debate, 10th April 2008

"Prices are now nearing the bottom end........Now is the right time to buy."
knownunknown
Posts: 2765
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:55 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2109

Post by knownunknown »

AnFearRéabhlóideach wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 6:25 am All those claims of the beheaded babies and gang rapes that 'allegedly' occurred on October 7th were outed as baseless Hasbara propaganda, scaremongering and complete fabrications by dubious sources long ago.

Still, over 2 years on, we have some geniuses pretending that was reality so they can continue to justify mass murder of civilians in Gaza. Pray tell why you are alluding to those lies right now dear Ceannairceach?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/ ... -hamas-war

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024 ... eli-claims

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_b ... ading_hoax

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/al ... tor-admits
Hamas slaughtered civilians on October 7th, they slaughtered babies and took hostages as young as six months old. They did commit rape and acts of sexual violence and the EU did sanction them over it.

It’s not made up, it’s not a lie, it all actually happened.

Of course no matter what evidence I provide i know your answer will be….”but…. But…. Israel”.
The bloc said terrorists from the two Palestinian groups — already on the European Union’s terrorism blacklist — “committed widespread sexual and gender-based violence in a systematic manner, using it as a weapon of war.”


https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/eu-sanc ... ck-5428509
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/worl ... e-on-oct-7
https://www.timesofisrael.com/eu-sancti ... -on-oct-7/
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/eu-sanc ... ck-5428509
knownunknown
Posts: 2765
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:55 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2110

Post by knownunknown »

Here’s another one

Clear and convincing information’ that hostages held in Gaza subjected to sexual violence, says UN Special Representative

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147217
ceannairceach
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2025 3:48 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2111

Post by ceannairceach »

AnFearRéabhlóideach wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 10:52 am It's your method of operation. Here's example A. You made the insinuation in the following post:



You don't deny or claim anything concrete. Instead you insinuate. You insinuate that Hamas gangraped Israeli women en masse on October 7th or Hamas killed wee Israeli babies indirectly with the context of the post above. You leave it up to other people's imaginations to do the rest. It's really quite an insidious way to try and spread a propaganda line. It also gives you this plausible deniability line of, "I never said that".

You can pretend otherwise, but really that's what you're trying to sell to the readers here. You remind me so much of a Hasbara propaganda merchant that used to inhabit politics.ie before it's recent untimely demise. That's just my little insinuation, Ceannairceach.
Google fcking Ariel and Kir Abbas.

We are done now, you make me fcking vomit and I happily take a sanction to say that.
ceannairceach
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2025 3:48 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2112

Post by ceannairceach »

knownunknown wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 2:28 pm Hamas slaughtered civilians on October 7th, they slaughtered babies and took hostages as young as six months old. They did commit rape and acts of sexual violence and the EU did sanction them over it.

It’s not made up, it’s not a lie, it all actually happened.

Of course no matter what evidence I provide i know your answer will be….”but…. But…. Israel”.

Thank you - there’s someone with a functioning heart, brain and conscience all working.


https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/eu-sanc ... ck-5428509
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/worl ... e-on-oct-7
https://www.timesofisrael.com/eu-sancti ... -on-oct-7/
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/eu-sanc ... ck-5428509
knownunknown
Posts: 2765
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:55 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2113

Post by knownunknown »

schmittel wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 10:03 am Interesting development with the flotilla. Both Spain and Italy have said they will send naval ships to help the boats:



What does "assist the flotilla" mean? Presumably that means the mere presence of Spanish and Italian naval ships will deter any more drone attacks on the flotilla. Situation would get very messy indeed if Israel carried on attacking the flotilla.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2025/0925 ... illa-gaza/
Like the “drone attack” from two weeks ago which the Tunisian authorities said of it(it was docked in Tunisia):

“ Tunisian national guard spokesman Houcem Eddine Jebabli saying “no drones have been detected”. Tunisian officials originally suggested that a fire broke out in the life jackets on board.

Reports of a drone are “completely unfounded”, the national guard said in a statement on its official Facebook page, suggesting that the fire may have been caused by a cigarette.”

Again in this recent “drone attack” nobody injured except for a few burnt life jackets. Worst “drone attack” ever.

AnFearRéabhlóideach
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2025 8:36 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2114

Post by AnFearRéabhlóideach »

knownunknown wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 2:28 pm Hamas slaughtered civilians on October 7th, they slaughtered babies and took hostages as young as six months old. They did commit rape and acts of sexual violence and the EU did sanction them over it.

It’s not made up, it’s not a lie, it all actually happened.

Of course no matter what evidence I provide i know your answer will be….”but…. But…. Israel”.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/eu-sanc ... ck-5428509
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/worl ... e-on-oct-7
https://www.timesofisrael.com/eu-sancti ... -on-oct-7/
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/eu-sanc ... ck-5428509
I already condemned the Hamas sexual violence against the hostages above. I already said that is a war crime and should be punished. The myth of gang rapes and beheaded babies and mass mutilations have all been debunked by several independent international investigations and internal Israeli investigations into October 7th. You're just posting old articles to rehash a lie that's been already debunked multiple times. That lie was intensively used and abused in the immediate aftermath of October 7th to justify the absurd over response against Gaza and it's civilian population by Israel and the IDF. Nobody is propagating that lie anymore bar Netyenyahoo himself.

Here's an excerpt by a Jewish-American scholar from an NPR article published today not over a year and a half ago like all those articles you posted. The scholar, Rez Segal an expert on genocide, discusses how the genocide agenda was allowed to be pushed so hard by the Zionist government against the Palestinians because of these fake or fabricated atrocities on October 7th. They were psychological warfare operations to scandalize the Western public into believing Hamas and, by taint of association, the Gazan population, were inhumane monsters who deserved all that befell them. Hamas did kill many innocent Israeli's, but the lies about mutilations, beheadings and gangrapes were all fabricated.

Here's the article excerpt:

Just days after Israel began its bombing campaign in Gaza, Raz Segal, an Israeli-American scholar of Jewish history and Holocaust and genocide studies, wrote that it represented a "textbook case of genocide."

In particular, Segal pointed to what he viewed as a deliberate intent to destroy, citing then-Defense Minister Yoav Gallant's order to impose a siege on the enclave.

Shortly after he publicly accused Israel of genocide in Gaza, the University of Minnesota rescinded its offer for him to lead the school's Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies.

"People ask me, 'Wasn't it too soon on Oct. 13?' No. The convention is activated by the risk of genocide, not just its occurrence. That's the whole point of prevention. That's the meaning of 'Never Again,'" Segal told NPR, referencing a common saying calling for the Holocaust to never be repeated.

He added that denying Israel was committing any war crimes, including genocide, allowed for Israel's actions to be justified.

"As if the Hamas-led massacres that day were not terrible enough, Israel and its allies, primarily the United States, including President Biden, immediately started circulating this atrocity propaganda," he said. "The lies and fabrications — like the false claim about beheaded babies — continuously shifted the focus not to Israeli violence but to the alleged barbarity of the Palestinians, to the point where they were seen as a danger that no international law should apply to."


https://www.npr.org/2025/09/25/g-s1-896 ... ed-nations
Senator Donie Cassidy, Seanad Debate, 10th April 2008

"Prices are now nearing the bottom end........Now is the right time to buy."
notobtuse
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2025 2:21 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2115

Post by notobtuse »

Babylon Bee has a great way of hitting Leftist ideals with humor and sarcasm.

knownunknown
Posts: 2765
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:55 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2116

Post by knownunknown »

AnFearRéabhlóideach wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 5:01 pm I already condemned the Hamas sexual violence against the hostages above. I already said that is a war crime and should be punished. The myth of gang rapes and beheaded babies and mass mutilations have all been debunked by several independent international investigations and internal Israeli investigations into October 7th. You're just posting old articles to rehash a lie that's been already debunked multiple times. That lie was intensively used and abused in the immediate aftermath of October 7th to justify the absurd over response against Gaza and it's civilian population by Israel and the IDF. Nobody is propagating that lie anymore bar Netyenyahoo himself.

Here's an excerpt by a Jewish-American scholar from an NPR article published today not over a year and a half ago like all those articles you posted. The scholar, Rez Segal an expert on genocide, discusses how the genocide agenda was allowed to be pushed so hard by the Zionist government against the Palestinians because of these fake or fabricated atrocities on October 7th. They were psychological warfare operations to scandalize the Western public into believing Hamas and, by taint of association, the Gazan population, were inhumane monsters who deserved all that befell them. Hamas did kill many innocent Israeli's, but the lies about mutilations, beheadings and gangrapes were all fabricated.

Here's the article excerpt:

Just days after Israel began its bombing campaign in Gaza, Raz Segal, an Israeli-American scholar of Jewish history and Holocaust and genocide studies, wrote that it represented a "textbook case of genocide."

In particular, Segal pointed to what he viewed as a deliberate intent to destroy, citing then-Defense Minister Yoav Gallant's order to impose a siege on the enclave.

Shortly after he publicly accused Israel of genocide in Gaza, the University of Minnesota rescinded its offer for him to lead the school's Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies.

"People ask me, 'Wasn't it too soon on Oct. 13?' No. The convention is activated by the risk of genocide, not just its occurrence. That's the whole point of prevention. That's the meaning of 'Never Again,'" Segal told NPR, referencing a common saying calling for the Holocaust to never be repeated.

He added that denying Israel was committing any war crimes, including genocide, allowed for Israel's actions to be justified.

"As if the Hamas-led massacres that day were not terrible enough, Israel and its allies, primarily the United States, including President Biden, immediately started circulating this atrocity propaganda," he said. "The lies and fabrications — like the false claim about beheaded babies — continuously shifted the focus not to Israeli violence but to the alleged barbarity of the Palestinians, to the point where they were seen as a danger that no international law should apply to."


https://www.npr.org/2025/09/25/g-s1-896 ... ed-nations
You are creating strawmen and then defeating them. We are saying rape happened to at least dozens of women on Oct.7th and continues to happen to hostages in captivity. You are the one introducing the word “gang” and the one talking about beheaded babies. I was one of the first people to bring that up in this thread as untrue.

They did however kidnap six month old children and then murdered them in captivity. The mutilations were also 100% correct. They kidnapped 1 year olds, 2 year olds. Whatever else happened to them remains unknown. What kind of a person kidnaps a baby for the purpose of using them as a hostage?

A sick fecking individual that needs to be wiped off the earth and anyone who harbours these sick fucks.

If a family member of yours was taken hostage and raped in captivity would you do everything possible to bring them back including the destruction of those harbouring them?

You never have anything to say except “but Israel” and it’s really tiresome. The only obstacle to peace is Hamas and you don’t even mention it.
jmayo
Posts: 599
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:40 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2117

Post by jmayo »

schmittel wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2025 10:10 pm Exactly. But it is bizarre that there are people who unable to understand that criticism of Israel's war crimes does not equate to support of Hamas.
The problem is a lot of the ones that are critizing Israel for war crimes are in the next sentence chanting "From the river to the sea".
Mind you a lot of the ones at that lark have no fooking clue of the history of that part of the world and are engaging in the usual mindless action of following the latest leftist woke mantra and not questioning the headlines.

They usually think, or should that be believe as most can't think for themselves, some state called Palestine once existed and that it is all Israel's fault no Palestinian state existed since 1948.
They appeared to have no knowledge Gaza and West Bank were under Arab control for 20 years.

It is much like the morons basically parroting "screw Charlie Kirk since he didn't believe in empathy" when they don't read the whole statement about him believing in sympathy and compassion.

It is the modern world where especially younger generations have a very limited concentration window.
I don't know what the excuse is for the older ones who should know better.
knownunknown
Posts: 2765
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:55 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2118

Post by knownunknown »

notobtuse wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 5:03 pm Babylon Bee has a great way of hitting Leftist ideals with humor and sarcasm.
That’s a good one. Here’s another.

AnFearRéabhlóideach
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2025 8:36 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2119

Post by AnFearRéabhlóideach »

ceannairceach wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 4:40 pm Google fcking Ariel and Kir Abbas.

We are done now, you make me fcking vomit and I happily take a sanction to say that.
It's a tragedy and the hostage taking was wrong especially of young children by Hamas. It was an atrocity that that poor family and many others shouldn't have suffered on October 7th.

However, Hamas says the poor wife and children died in an Israeli airstrike while being held in Gaza. Israel says it was Hamas who mutilated and killed them. It is inconclusive as to what the real truth of the matter is.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapp ... bas_family

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjw20d3l4jpo.amp

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk ... as-babies/

The brutal and bleak thing about war is the truth is completely lost in a sea of lies. There have been no independent verifications by non-Israeli sources of what actually happened to the bodies of those poor victims.
The Israeli forensic chief simply said at the time, rather cryptically, "they did not die by bombing." There was no mention of mutilation in his report. The mutilation claim came from other sources and the international media was not allowed to verify it at the time and hasn't been allowed to since.
Senator Donie Cassidy, Seanad Debate, 10th April 2008

"Prices are now nearing the bottom end........Now is the right time to buy."
knownunknown
Posts: 2765
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:55 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2120

Post by knownunknown »

AnFearRéabhlóideach wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 5:37 pm It's a tragedy and the hostage taking was wrong especially of young children by Hamas. It was an atrocity that that poor family and many others shouldn't have suffered on October 7th.

However, Hamas says the poor wife and children died in an Israeli airstrike while being held in Gaza. Israel says it was Hamas who mutilated and killed them. It is inconclusive as to what the real truth of the matter is.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapp ... bas_family

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjw20d3l4jpo.amp

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk ... as-babies/

The brutal and bleak thing about war is the truth is completely lost in a sea of lies. There have been no independent verifications by non-Israeli sources of what actually happened to the bodies of those poor victims.
The Israeli forensic chief simply said at the time, rather cryptically, "they did not die by bombing." There was no mention of mutilation in his report. The mutilation claim came from other sources and the international media was not allowed to verify it at the time and hasn't been allowed to since.
What we do know for sure is that Hamas took them as hostages while they were asleep in their beds. When Hamas discovered they had babies and children in captivity they didn’t return them. They kept them. We also know when they handed back the bodies in coffins they paraded in jubilation around the streets. They even handed back the wrong body of the mother.

Guburnor
Site Admin
Posts: 542
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:54 am

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2121

Post by Guburnor »

ceannairceach wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 4:40 pm Google fcking Ariel and Kir Abbas.

We are done now, you make me fcking vomit and I happily take a sanction to say that.
You did say you'd put AnFearRéabhlóideach early on, after it became pretty clear that you were not to going to see eye to eye, can you please put them on ignore now?
AnFearRéabhlóideach
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2025 8:36 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2122

Post by AnFearRéabhlóideach »

knownunknown wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 5:08 pm You are creating strawmen and then defeating them. We are saying rape happened to at least dozens of women on Oct.7th and continues to happen to hostages in captivity. You are the one introducing the word “gang” and the one talking about beheaded babies. I was one of the first people to bring that up in this thread as untrue.

They did however kidnap six month old children and then murdered them in captivity. The mutilations were also 100% correct. They kidnapped 1 year olds, 2 year olds. Whatever else happened to them remains unknown. What kind of a person kidnaps a baby for the purpose of using them as a hostage?

A sick fecking individual that needs to be wiped off the earth and anyone who harbours these sick fucks.

If a family member of yours was taken hostage and raped in captivity would you do everything possible to bring them back including the destruction of those harbouring them?

You never have anything to say except “but Israel” and it’s really tiresome. The only obstacle to peace is Hamas and you don’t even mention it.
Read back. It was Ceannairceach who started us on this path and I explained exactly how we reached this point.

I am merely trying to show that the lies that were used to further the war against Palestinian civilians have been debunked i.e. the gangrape claim, the mutilation claim and the beheaded babies claim. It's not a strawman to point out those were complete fabrications, it's extensively been disproved by media within Israel and media beyond Israel. Even the Zionist ministers and Prime Minister have stopped using that lie in public as often now because they know it's a lie.

You're proving my point too. This Hasbara operation to scandalise the Israeli public and the wider world has been constantly and consistently using those lies to try and subvert us from reality that Israeli atrocities in Gaza are every bit as bad as those Hamas atrocities on October 7th and in the days after.

Furthermore, October 7th is nearly 2 years ago. This genocide, this ethnic cleansing, this complete destruction of Gaza cannot be justified against innocent Palestinian civilians who had nothing to do with Hamas. It is a crime against humanity and it will be remembered too. Where is your condemnation of these crimes by the Zionist leadership and the IDF? Do innocent human beings, Palestinian men, women and children deserve to be treated like this based on complete lies? A life is a life, Palestinian or Israeli. I guarantee there will only be silence from you on these issues.
Senator Donie Cassidy, Seanad Debate, 10th April 2008

"Prices are now nearing the bottom end........Now is the right time to buy."
knownunknown
Posts: 2765
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:55 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2123

Post by knownunknown »

AnFearRéabhlóideach wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 6:00 pm Read back. It was Ceannairceach who started us on this path and I explained exactly how we reached this point.

I am merely trying to show that the lies that were used to further the war against Palestinian civilians have been debunked i.e. the gangrape claim, the mutilation claim and the beheaded babies claim. It's not a strawman to point out those were complete fabrications, it's extensively been disproved by media within Israel and media beyond Israel. Even the Zionist ministers and Prime Minister have stopped using that lie in public as often now because they know it's a lie.

You're proving my point too. This Hasbara operation to scandalise the Israeli public and the wider world has been constantly and consistently using those lies to try and subvert us from reality that Israeli atrocities in Gaza are every bit as bad as those Hamas atrocities on October 7th and in the days after.

Furthermore, October 7th is nearly 2 years ago. This genocide, this ethnic cleansing, this complete destruction of Gaza cannot be justified against innocent Palestinian civilians who had nothing to do with Hamas. It is a crime against humanity and it will be remembered too. Where is your condemnation of these crimes by the Zionist leadership and the IDF? Do innocent human beings, Palestinian men, women and children deserve to be treated like this based on complete lies? A life is a life, Palestinian or Israeli. I guarantee there will only be silence from you on these issues.
So if it were your family member you’d just leave them there to rot? Again no mention of the hostages or Hamas. The leadership of Palestine has told Hamas to surrender their weapons and the hostages so they are now the only obstacle to peace.

If you actually cared about the people of Palestine you’d realize this but your blind hatred of Israel is clouding what is sitting right in front of you.

The people of Palestine know what they want and it is Hamas out and they will risk their lives to shout it from the roof tops, yet we have Hamas propagandists such as yourself constantly “ but… but… Israel”.



Jequ0n
Posts: 221
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2025 11:51 am

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2124

Post by Jequ0n »

@jmayo

“Ah seriously Jequ0n are you trying to deny the rape and murders that occurred on Oct 7th?
Are you saying it was propaganda?

BTW I have seen some try claim it was propaganda.
These are usually the types that revert to making claims about "small hats" running the world mind.
That is one thing that has put me off Gript as some of the posters that were around there were the type that engaged in holocaust denial and lauded the nazis.

I have also read comments by those, non Israelis as well, that have said they have seen video footage taken by Hamas of what was done on Oct 7th and that it is truly sickening and it shocks them how anyone can defend hamas.”

I never alleged that no violence occurred or that women didn’t get raped. I asked this has been proven as a fact because I had not seen any credible source yet.

Part of the problem is that people supporting either side get way too emotionally involved and sometimes choose to believe only sources that support their view. And in this particular case the source would have interested me more than the conflict itself.
ceannairceach
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2025 3:48 pm

Re: Israel and Palestine

#2125

Post by ceannairceach »

Jequ0n wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 6:44 pm @jmayo

“Ah seriously Jequ0n are you trying to deny the rape and murders that occurred on Oct 7th?
Are you saying it was propaganda?

BTW I have seen some try claim it was propaganda.
These are usually the types that revert to making claims about "small hats" running the world mind.
That is one thing that has put me off Gript as some of the posters that were around there were the type that engaged in holocaust denial and lauded the nazis.

I have also read comments by those, non Israelis as well, that have said they have seen video footage taken by Hamas of what was done on Oct 7th and that it is truly sickening and it shocks them how anyone can defend hamas.”

I never alleged that no violence occurred or that women didn’t get raped. I asked this has been proven as a fact because I had not seen any credible source yet.

Part of the problem is that people supporting either side get way too emotionally involved and sometimes choose to believe only sources that support their view. And in this particular case the source would have interested me more than the conflict itself.
I know someone who has seen the GoPro videos - part of them as they could not face more than a few minutes.

Rape happened, gang rape happened, the worst violence you can imagine happened.

Jesus look what is happening in the “small boats” crossing the channel, women and girls raped WHILE FLEEING FOR THEIR LIVES (if you believe that garbage stories).

These people are largely of one faith - a vile, misogynistic death cult that should not be “recognised” as a state, but destroyed.
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