The reunification of Ireland - news, history, debate and analysis

[Irish History]

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Allison Morris - I’m increasingly convinced that Stormont cannot work... and if it collapses again it is never coming back.

https://archive.ph/Qeg3K#selection-3053.0-3053.14

Seems the Irish First Minister and the unelected Emma Little-Pengelly (number 2) are not getting along. That stinks.

According to Stormont sources, when the cameras stop rolling the pair barely speak.

I am now less convinced than at any time in the last decade that this place — in its current form — can ever work.

Is Stormont on the brink of collapse? Suzanne Breen reports


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[Irish History]

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British Prime Minister 'not confident' Unionists would win Irish border poll !!!

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/busi ... 08576.html

Theresa May has said she is not confident of certain victory in an Irish border poll, according to reports.
The Times reports of a confrontation between the Prime Minister and the Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg during briefings on Monday aimed at bringing the Conservative party together over the Brexit difficulties.

The briefings were - according to the paper's sources - aimed at "sending a tough signal" to hardline elements within her party she was not prepared to risk breaking up the Union.

Around 150 MPs attended in which the plans for the border were outlined to them. They were described as "highly technical briefings" on three options considered by Britain as options to pitch to the EU on the border issue.

Sources told the newspaper Mrs May and Mr Rees-Mogg clashed over plans for the Irish border.

The Times reports that Mr Rees-Mogg suggested the UK should keep the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic open with Mrs May countering that the EU could impose infrastructure to protect the integrity of the single market.

Sources said the backbench MP told Mrs May he had "no doubt" Northern Ireland would remain within the UK after any border poll.

Apparently Mrs May responded: "I would not be as confident as you. That’s not a risk I’m prepared to take. We cannot be confident on the politics of that situation, on how it plays out."

A Tory MP said Mrs May "slapped him down hard".

"She got him on facts.

"She was absolutely firm and passionate about the Irish position. I got a sense she realises what really matters," the MP told the Times.

The Good Friday Agreement states the Secretary of State should call a border poll if "it appears likely... a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland".

Mr Rees-Mogg did not comment on the exchanges but said that the meeting was “courteous and respectful”. Number 10 has been asked for a comment.

Writing in the Daily Telegraph, he accused the EU of treating Britain with "disdain" and using the Irish border as a way to stop Brexit and if they continue to "reject all practical approaches, it is, with regret, that we will have to graciously accept their rejection".

"If they either do not want to or simply cannot broker a deal, a deal will not be done."

The Cabinet sub-committee meets on Tuesday as discussions continue on how to resolve the border issue. Brexit secretary David Davis has said they are working toward finding a resolution by the autumn. However, the EU has said it expects a resolution by the June summit.

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[Irish History]

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'I would not be as confident as you': British Prime Minister and Brexiteer MP 'in row over who would win a border poll'

https://www.thejournal.ie/theresa-may-r ... 0-May2018/

I would not be as confident as you. That’s not a risk I’m prepared to take. We cannot be confident on the politics of that situation, on how it plays out.

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[knownunknown]

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British Prime Minister 'not confident' Unionists would win Irish border poll !!!

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/busi ... 08576.html


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Theresa May… in other news man lands on moon.

[Irish History]

Theresa May… in other news man lands on moon.

The title of the thread says news and history - I take it comprehension is not your forte.

What do you think history means other than history? I'd say if it was somehow written with crayon fonts, you might have understood.

The salient point is, which was clearly lost on you, is that a British Prime Minister said "not confident Unionists would win Irish border poll". It implied that the criteria for the referendum on the reunification of Ireland has already been fulfilled.

I refer you to post #110

The GFA states that

“if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the UK and form part of a united Ireland”.

Key words are "if at any time".

The reality is that there has already been THREE polls that showed a majority in favour of the reunification of Ireland. LucidTalk (2017) 46% to 45%, OFOC/Deltapoll (2018) 52% to 39% and Ashcroft (2019) 46% to 45% - yet we Irish are still being denied by the foreign British the democratic right to vote in our own country about our own country.

The foreign British Prime Minister would have been aware of two of them.

So - why is Ireland still artificially partitioned against the will of the Irish people?
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[roc_enthusiast]

What fu cking planet is this guy on.

Rather I suggest that when we start seeing in these polls, as much green as red, sustained over a sufficient period, representing a stabilised new majority public opinion - then perhaps we might be approaching the stated criteria to hold a formal referendum (assuming other political, social and economic related issues have been resolved satisfactorily, as I think I have set out elsewhere).

[Irish History]

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President Connolly must be thorn in side of failing Irish government.

https://removepaywalls.com/https://www. ... 3GM76TKYY/

She must also do all she can to ensure that she is the last president elected on a mandate which excludes Irish citizens misfortunate enough to live under British rule. Ideally this would happen by means of reunification rather than an adjustment to the electoral roll. But happen it must.

The Irish question is a social question. The whole age-long fight of the Irish people against their oppressors resolves itself in the last analysis into a fight for the mastery of the means of life, the sources of production, in Ireland

to quote James Connolly: “The British government has no right in Ireland, never had any right in Ireland, and never can have any right in Ireland.” Freedom for the north is unfinished business.

Partition is a wrong that must be righted. As president, Connolly must operate as if the border does not exist; and she must deploy all the resources of her office to ensure that, when it comes, the border poll results in a reunited Ireland.

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[Irish History]

What fu cking planet is this guy on.

Rather I suggest that when we start seeing in these polls, as much green as red, sustained over a sufficient period, representing a stabilised new majority public opinion - then perhaps we might be approaching the stated criteria to hold a formal referendum (assuming other political, social and economic related issues have been resolved satisfactorily, as I think I have set out elsewhere).

You are a particularly stupid person and you don't seem to realise it.

It doesn't matter what you suggest - it's what the GFA states. A referendum will be called “if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the UK and form part of a united Ireland”.

Key words are "if at any time".

In actual fact and in reality, there has already been THREE polls that showed a majority in favour of the reunification of Ireland. LucidTalk (2017) 46% to 45%, OFOC/Deltapoll (2018) 52% to 39% and Ashcroft (2019) 46% to 45% - yet we Irish are still being denied by the foreign British the democratic right to vote in our own country about our own country.

AND a British Prime Minister is on the record stating "not confident Unionists would win Irish border poll". That also implies that the criteria for the referendum on the reunification of Ireland has already been fulfilled !!!

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/busi ... 08576.html
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[Irish History]

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RE: above.

Another thing is that the criteria does not mention a survey'poll per se - therefore election results must be taken into consideration.

Irish people now elect the most MP's sent to Westminster - Irish people elect the most Councillors, including in Belfast City Council, once the Bastion of Unionism in Ireland - Irish people elect the most MLA's (I include Alliance also because recent surveys within the Party show it is now a majority Nationalist political Party). The First Minister of so-called "northern" Ireland is now Irish!

Also - LESS than 50 percent of the people in the occupied 6 counties of Ireland right now in 2025 want to remain within the political entity called the UK.

So - why is Ireland still artificially partitioned against the will of the Irish people?

RE: Border Poll itself.

We can have one now - all we have to do is use the leverage we already have. Also once there is a border poll, if we lose, we can have another one after 7 years. The campaign has not yet begun, and one has only to think of the surge the YES campaign for independence received once the referendum was called in Scotland. I believe that once a referendum is called here, the north given the history of England in Ireland and the chance to right the wrong of the artificial partition of our country and the foreign occupation of England/Britain in Ireland, will vote for reunification. The question is - why isn't Fianna Fail and Fine Gael in the Irish Gov. not only not pushing the British Gov. for a vote on the reunification of Ireland, but are not even preparing the south for the reunification of our country?

If Farage does become brit PM and does what he says he will do, and that creates a hard border in Ireland - then that will just encourage the majority Irish and most of the middle ground to want the 6 counties to leave the UK. History has shown that it is when people in the north are most unhappy with foreign British rule, the support for the reunification of Ireland increases. Which is why logic suggests that trying to make the north work and pumping money into the north by Micheál Martin is a total nonsense as far as the reunification of Ireland is concerned. If people in the 6 counties are content within the UK, they are hardly going to vote to leave it. Think about it - has anyone heard the Unionists whinge about the Micheál Martin so-called "shared Island" AKA 'kill the idea of reunification with kindness and keep the north within the UK' project. His British/Unionist handlers love him.

Why do people blindly accept all this inaction? Shouldn't we Irish have learned by now that England's word is meaningless and they never signed a treaty that they didn't try to change or renege on.

Even the President of France said - “For England there is no alliance which holds, nor any treaty that’s valued, nor any truth which counts.”

Wake up - Perfidious Albion is an actual thing you know.
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[NewBroom]

This thread is a great laugh, complete loo laa stuff. Instead of wasting your time and copious energy here, I suggest you go forth and press the flesh of our Unionist brethren. Far more productive.

[Irish History]

This thread is a great laugh, complete loo laa stuff. Instead of wasting your time and copious energy here, I suggest you go forth and press the flesh of our Unionist brethren. Far more productive.

You wrote similar in post 41 - yet when I told you how asinine your assertion was given that my posts are actual fact backed up with the relevant links, and told you to state what is nonsense about the thread, you were not able to.

Feel free to point out what is as you put it, "loo laa" - that is if you are able to? It seems to me that you lack the intellectual capacity to 1/ comprehend what you are reading and 2/ are clearly unable to articulate in writing what it is about the thread you imagine is "loo laa".

Try and prove me wrong - I dare you?
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[SuirView]

Interesting article from one of the SF leaders,

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politic ... -1.4845212

[Statsman]

Interesting article from one of the SF leaders,

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politic ... -1.4845212

That's a bit old news.

[Irish History]

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Plan for a (re)united Ireland to avoid Brexit-style mess, says author from unionist background.

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/202 ... ackground/

Farage admits Brexit has been a failure yet refuses closer links with the European Union and he has admitted there will be a united Ireland, Collins says, adding: “Brexit is ultimately an English nationalist project

Unionist politicians choose not to engage, he says, “but civic unionism is already speaking with the rest of Ireland in offices, bars, restaurants and people’s homes

A one-time member of the Conservative Party and, later, the Alliance Party, Collins worked as an official in the UK’s Northern Ireland Office for a number of years, acting as one of its press officers during the negotiations leading to the 2006 St Andrews Agreement on the devolution of power in the region.

He was later chief executive of Northern Ireland’s Federation of Housing Associations before he set up a Belfast-based political communications firm.

In his book, The Irish Unity Dividend, published last September, Collins argues Northern Ireland would be better off in a united Ireland.

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[SuirView]

That's a bit old news.

Interesting, has Michelle Smith come out since and told us that the “cost of living crisis” has disappeared?

[Statsman]

Interesting, has Michelle Smith come out since and told us that the “cost of living crisis” has disappeared?

Not that I'm aware of, but SF have certainly focused much more on a Border Poll since that time. Rightly or wrongly. Not a bit interesting.

[SuirView]

Not that I'm aware of, but SF have certainly focused much more on a Border Poll since that time. Rightly or wrongly. Not a bit interesting.

Interesting reply.
Just to be clear, do you think that what Michelle said in the article I quoted above still applies today?

[Statsman]

Interesting reply.
Just to be clear, do you think that what Michelle said in the article I quoted above still applies today?

I doubt the Yes vote would be as low as one third, but I also doubt that it would hit 50% + 1. There's still far too much prep work to be done on both sides of the border, and far too much hostility to be confronted, on all sides. My best guess would be another 20 years or so before a poll is called, unless the British, in their infinite wisdom, elect that chancer Farage as PM, in which case all bets are off.

[midlander12]

I doubt the Yes vote would be as low as one third, but I also doubt that it would hit 50% + 1. There's still far too much prep work to be done on both sides of the border, and far too much hostility to be confronted, on all sides. My best guess would be another 20 years or so before a poll is called, unless the British, in their infinite wisdom, elect that chancer Farage as PM, in which case all bets are off.

Farage certainly won't call a poll, but he's quite liable to do a lot of other things which could change the calculus. After which, getting to 50%+1 would be the least of our worries.

[Irish History]

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County Fermanagh Council approves Irish Unity group after Unionist 'call-In' defeated.

https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/ ... -defeated/

They opposed the motion because: “The unionist community will be disproportionately and adversely affected as they oppose Irish unity and seek to maintain and strengthen the union.

Unionists just do not understand the concept of democracy - they never did In Ireland, which is why Ireland is artificially partitioned in the first instance!

They seem to think it's all about Minoritarianism rather than Majoritarianism - which is why we need to break them, once and for all time, rather than pandering to their bullsh1t.
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[Irish History]

Farage certainly won't call a poll, but he's quite liable to do a lot of other things which could change the calculus. After which, getting to 50%+1 would be the least of our worries.

Not having a go at you - I'm glad you and Statsman, et al are posting on the thread.

But I can see a likely scenario where Farage would call a border poll. Scotland's independence is already back on the agenda as far as the Scottish people are concerned - the majority there are not right-wing and do not want Reform forced on them. Scotland will leave the Union - Nationalist England under Reform will not pay for the north of Ireland once Scotland pulls the plug on the UK.

It can happen, and it can happen fast - which is why the USELESS partitionist parties Fianna fail and Fine Gael in Gov. should be making preparations for the reunification of Ireland right now.

The new hero of Scottish independence? Nigel Farage

https://www.politico.eu/article/the-new ... el-farage/

I believe it will be revulsion at Westminster’s race to the right that will change Scotland’s status again,” Swinney told the SNP faithful as he closed the party’s conference Monday. “The race to the right at Westminster is one reason why independence is so urgent and necessary.
Swinney has declared that if his party wins an outright majority in May, it would be a fresh mandate for a second referendum that the U.K. government in Westminster cannot ignore.

Here in Ireland. a report produced by the all-party Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement has already called on Fianna Fail and Fine Gael in government to prepare and publish a Green Paper setting out a vision for the reunification of our country Ireland, and for every Government department to examine the implications of constitutional change. That was last year.

Committee calls for 'immediate' preparations for united Ireland

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/07 ... committee/

An all-party committee has called for preparations for a united Ireland to begin "immediately", saying that every Government department should examine the implications of constitutional change

Micheál Martin and Simon Harris in government ignored it, despite their own party representatives on the committee supporting the report. That tells you all you need to know about the two USELESS partitionist parties Fianna Fail and Fine Gael.

Not only is it irresponsible, given the momentum toward reunification and Britain in meltdown - arguably it is treasonous and goes against the constitutional imperative for the reunification of Ireland.
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[SuirView]

I doubt the Yes vote would be as low as one third, but I also doubt that it would hit 50% + 1. There's still far too much prep work to be done on both sides of the border, and far too much hostility to be confronted, on all sides. My best guess would be another 20 years or so before a poll is called, unless the British, in their infinite wisdom, elect that chancer Farage as PM, in which case all bets are off.

Good stuff,
Michelle said “people in Northern Ireland are currently not waking up thinking about Irish unity” in the article I quoted above and she also said in the same article that “their focus today is on the cost of living crisis”.
Just to be clear,
Do you think that this still applies today?

[midlander12]

Not having a go at you - I'm glad you and Statsman, et al are posting on the thread.

But I can see a likely scenario where Farage would call a border poll. Scotland's independence is already back on the agenda as far as the Scottish people are concerned - the majority there are not right-wing and do not want Reform forced on them. Scotland will leave the Union - Nationalist England under Reform will not pay for the north of Ireland once Scotland pulls the plug on the UK.

It can happen, and it can happen fast - which is why the USELESS partitionist parties Fianna fail and Fine Gael in Gov. should be making preparations for the reunification of Ireland right now.

The new hero of Scottish independence? Nigel Farage

https://www.politico.eu/article/the-new ... el-farage/



Here in Ireland. a report produced by the all-party Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement has already called on Fianna Fail and Fine Gael in government to prepare and publish a Green Paper setting out a vision for the reunification of our country Ireland, and for every Government department to examine the implications of constitutional change. That was last year.

Committee calls for 'immediate' preparations for united Ireland

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/07 ... committee/


Micheál Martin and Simon Harris in government ignored it, despite their own party representatives on the committee supporting the report. That tells you all you need to know about the two USELESS partitionist parties Fianna Fail and Fine Gael.

Not only is it irresponsible, given the momentum toward reunification and Britain in meltdown - arguably it is treasonous and goes against the constitutional imperative for the reunification of Ireland.
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On Farage, logically what you say makes sense i.e. get rid of NI and Scotland to save a few bob and give English nationalism a clear run in England (never mind Wales) and also have over 50 less opposition MP's to deal with.

However I'm not sure logic comes into it with the far right. Farage won't want to antagonise the Tommy Robinsons of this world and their far-right loyalist allies. I think if he gets into power all bets are off as to what may happen. Some form of violent repartition and an attempt to create a loyalist Transnistria enclave could not be ruled out. Plus Farage would relish the opportunity to destabilise an EU state.

[Statsman]

On Farage, logically what you say makes sense i.e. get rid of NI and Scotland to save a few bob and give English nationalism a clear run in England (never mind Wales) and also have over 50 less opposition MP's to deal with.

However I'm not sure logic comes into it with the far right. Farage won't want to antagonise the Tommy Robinsons of this world and their far-right loyalist allies. I think if he gets into power all bets are off as to what may happen. Some form of violent repartition and an attempt to create a loyalist Transnistria enclave could not be ruled out. Plus Farage would relish the opportunity to destabilise an EU state.

There's also the small fact that Farage could call a Border Poll, but he can't predetermine the result.

[Irish History]

On Farage, logically what you say makes sense i.e. get rid of NI and Scotland to save a few bob and give English nationalism a clear run in England (never mind Wales) and also have over 50 less opposition MP's to deal with.

However I'm not sure logic comes into it with the far right. Farage won't want to antagonise the Tommy Robinsons of this world and their far-right loyalist allies. I think if he gets into power all bets are off as to what may happen. Some form of violent repartition and an attempt to create a loyalist Transnistria enclave could not be ruled out. Plus Farage would relish the opportunity to destabilise an EU state.

I genuinely do not believe Unionists would be able to forcibly repartition Ireland and create a Transnistria like enclave - they are now only a majority in 2 of Ireland's 32 counties. They just do not have the numbers or the strength or support from the outside world to do that, or even support among their own ethnic community to do something like that.

The Primate of All Ireland is on the record stating he does not think there will be any violence when Ireland is reunified. I personally do not care what religion people are and do not mention religion when I refer to the foreign ethnic British Unionists in the north, but for the sake of the point I'm making now, according to the census, there are less than 600 thousand Protestants in the north today - not a million as the media continues to claim. Their voting power is less than 400 thousand. That's my understanding - I am open to correction.

But say they did start trouble when Ireland is reunified and did create smaller enclaves dotted around the north - rather than using the Irish Army, because of the optics of an age old fight continuing scenario, I wonder if the UN could be brought in to police those areas and undermine that narrative. Then world opinion would be totally on the Irish side and the enclaves without any support, would just wither on the vine.

I just don't feel a threat of violence from the Unionists should be taken into consideration when voting to reunify Ireland - shades of Home Rule. The Unionists need to be faced down, rather than pander to their bullsh1t.
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